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Author Topic: Things Palladium Got Right  (Read 11552 times)

MaybeJustNeverMind

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Things Palladium Got Right
« Reply #75 on: August 03, 2014, 12:08:05 AM »
Quote from: RunningLaser;765352
Most of the games that I've read by them get you fired up to play in a way that other games could only dream of.

Many of the ideas and hooks present in Palladium's products are awesome.

I remember as a kid that their products were high value for a cheap price.

While their soft covers can and will de-laminate, the sewn binding is close to bomb proof.

Lastly- The Palladium Role Playing Game First Edition Revised is a masterpiece:)  It's the original next wave retro-clone.

I probably agree with most of the first page and all of this.  Some of the most fun I've ever had as a GM was my TMNT / Heroes Unlimited mixed game.  The laminating on Heroes Unlimited isn't looking too good these days. I just think of it as growing older with a friend.

Both of the systems really invited us to make the character types our own.  Bio-E was one of the most amazing things to me, at the time.

I especially want to agree about the fun.  The books seemed to trust that we knew how to play pretend.  I always felt like the rules implied: "You know how to play pretend. This only decides whether the bag guy got hit when you pointed your finger and said bang."  I try hard not to indulge in pure nostalgia.  The skills issue came up once or twice.  But, overall, it was about people having fun.

Matt

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Things Palladium Got Right
« Reply #76 on: August 06, 2014, 12:08:54 AM »
I have no beef with Palladium. It's just a game company. I think Ninjas & Superspies is a lot of fun and does exactly what it was meant to do in a contagiously enthusiastic manner. Same with Teenage Turtle Mutant Ninjas and Heroes Unlimited. Is the house system sometimes a little clunky? Guess so, but compared to what? Makes more sense to me than D&D. Not as sleek as WEG Star Wars, but maybe it shouldn't be as it's meant for a different style of play. Palladium evolved from house rules as I understand it, and it feels like it as some of it feels like improvements (or variations, if you prefer) on AD&D: the combat system in N&SS is a lot of fun; the opposed rolls make both fighters feel like they are actively involved in the outcome (and they are), hitting on 5+ makes morr sense to me than D&D's rolling vs. AC, Armor Rating is very nice...I think it's quite good. I have read opinions that the "mechanics need to evolve," but without explanation as to what that is supposed to mean. I wouldn't want Palladium if it suddenly became Cortex or WEG d6. And in addition to that addled, rambling list of things, Palladium games have a lot of charm.

As for behind-the-scenes drama, I have no interest in it. I'm just here for the games. Really interested in getting Revised Recon and 1st ed. Beyond the Supernatural and Systems Failure sometime. Sound like a lot of fun.

Novastar

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« Reply #77 on: August 06, 2014, 01:05:59 AM »
Palladium makes really fun games; the company is frustrating as all hell, but the games pass the crucial test: they're fun to play.

I seem to remember someone telling me that Kevin's beef with CJ's stuff was how deadly it was (massive damage). CJ had at one point commented how ridiculous it was that Coalition grunts carry a pistol, that generally couldn't even penetrate their own armor (the gun did 1d6 MD, had 10 shots; their armor had 50 MDC, making a kill unlikely, even if you hit with all 10 shots).

Different design philosophies. If HU taught me anything, is that Kevin likes slugging match attrition in his later games!

Are there "objectively better" games out there? Sure! But most of them are boring as hell. Palladium definitely puts a stamp on it's products, an originality I happen to like. It's not for everyone, but if you like one setting, it's likely you'll like most of Palladium's settings.

About my only real gripe, book-wise, is the Rifts: Ultimate Edition (R:UE) book; the original Main Book is better. It has a better tone, it doesn't read like a walking advertisement (not only for Promises for Power, but also their later game line! It almost felt like they were saying "You shouldn't have bought THIS book; you should have bought THOSE OTHER books."). I also wasn't a fan of a lot of the rule tweaks they brought in with the book (I actually think RIFTS and Robotech run better, using the earlier rules).

My 2 cents.
Quote from: dragoner;776244
Mechanical character builds remind me of something like picking the shoe in monopoly, it isn't what I play rpg's for.

Spinachcat

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Things Palladium Got Right
« Reply #78 on: August 06, 2014, 01:20:46 AM »
Quote from: Matt;776456
Really interested in getting Revised Recon and 1st ed. Beyond the Supernatural and Systems Failure sometime. Sound like a lot of fun.


Systems Failure is awesome!!!

It's gonzo and easily the best organized Palladium book. It's a very playable game and its combo of modern-ish day + post-apoc + alien bug invasion really works at the table.

Matt

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« Reply #79 on: August 06, 2014, 12:20:47 PM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;776486
Systems Failure is awesome!!!

It's gonzo and easily the best organized Palladium book. It's a very playable game and its combo of modern-ish day + post-apoc + alien bug invasion really works at the table.


An organized Palladium book?

Sounds like Systems Failure could have been a cool TV series circa '99.

You've sold me on it.

Matt

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« Reply #80 on: August 06, 2014, 12:21:42 PM »
Novastar, if an objectively better game is boring...is that not a contradiction?

David Johansen

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« Reply #81 on: August 06, 2014, 03:01:40 PM »
Not at all, GURPS is way better than Palladium mechanically but Palladium will always outsell GURPS.

Settings and images sell games, not rules.
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Matt

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« Reply #82 on: August 06, 2014, 05:20:28 PM »
Quote from: David Johansen;776670
Not at all, GURPS is way better than Palladium mechanically but Palladium will always outsell GURPS.

Settings and images sell games, not rules.


Wait, now we're talking about who sells more. How does that relate to a game being simultaneously "objectively better" and "boring"?

Dan Vince

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Things Palladium Got Right
« Reply #83 on: August 06, 2014, 07:06:07 PM »
Quote from: David Johansen;776670
Not at all, GURPS is way better than Palladium mechanically but Palladium will always outsell GURPS.

Settings and images sell games, not rules.


That's an odd example, given that sales is one of the few "objective" measures available, at least insofar as most of us agree that, all other things being equal, selling many units is objectively preferable to selling few.

David Johansen

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« Reply #84 on: August 06, 2014, 08:17:52 PM »
I picked it because Palladium and GURPS are such polar opposites.  Palladium is haphazardly edited and organized, it's rules are more of a loose pile of ideas than a system, and it has pretty good art and fantastic, over the top settings.

GURPS is meticulously researched, edited, tested, and organized.  The cross references between books are solid.  But the art is pedestrian at best and embarrassing  at worst.  And the settings tend to be very rational and carefully thought out.

Yet, for all that GURPS even makes D&D look like an amateur production, it has never been able to beat Palladium's sales let alone contend with D&D.  Why?  Because Palladium is  fun and goofy and enthusiastic while GURPS is reserved and scholarly.
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Novastar

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« Reply #85 on: August 06, 2014, 08:23:19 PM »
Quote from: Matt;776612
Novastar, if an objectively better game is boring...is that not a contradiction?

Objectively better mechanically, and in presentation.

IMHO, I'm thinking of Mutants and Masterminds. It's a simpler math version of Hero (and has great Ramon Perez art!), but I'd still rather play HERO/Champions. Better yet, play Heroes Unlimited. Best yet, Marvel FASERIP!

But it is far easier to play an incredibly powerful character in M&M, than in HU. But HU has more heart, IME.
Quote from: dragoner;776244
Mechanical character builds remind me of something like picking the shoe in monopoly, it isn't what I play rpg's for.

Matt

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Things Palladium Got Right
« Reply #86 on: August 06, 2014, 08:29:53 PM »
Quote from: Novastar;776862
Objectively better mechanically, and in presentation.

IMHO, I'm thinking of Mutants and Masterminds. It's a simpler math version of Hero (and has great Ramon Perez art!), but I'd still rather play HERO/Champions. Better yet, play Heroes Unlimited. Best yet, Marvel FASERIP!

But it is far easier to play an incredibly powerful character in M&M, than in HU. But HU has more heart, IME.


I see what you meant. I actually agree pretty much with the order of preference as well. I own all of those games (and it seems like every other super hero RPG) but would probably play HU, MSH, or V&V over the others. V&V has a special charm all its own plus that great Jeff Dee art and a complete rulebook in (give or take) 50 pages.

Matt

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« Reply #87 on: August 06, 2014, 08:32:37 PM »
Quote from: David Johansen;776855
I picked it because Palladium and GURPS are such polar opposites.  Palladium is haphazardly edited and organized, it's rules are more of a loose pile of ideas than a system, and it has pretty good art and fantastic, over the top settings.

GURPS is meticulously researched, edited, tested, and organized.  The cross references between books are solid.  But the art is pedestrian at best and embarrassing  at worst.  And the settings tend to be very rational and carefully thought out.

Yet, for all that GURPS even makes D&D look like an amateur production, it has never been able to beat Palladium's sales let alone contend with D&D.  Why?  Because Palladium is  fun and goofy and enthusiastic while GURPS is reserved and scholarly.


And I love both GURPS and Palladium! But have no interest in D&D...it's a game I "end up" playing when I can't get a group to play anything else.

Yeah...I'd probably lean on GURP sourcebooks for information/ideas to power up my Palladium adventures.

Dan Vince

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« Reply #88 on: August 06, 2014, 08:43:02 PM »
Quote from: Novastar;776476
... I seem to remember someone telling me that Kevin's beef with CJ's stuff was how deadly it was (massive damage). CJ had at one point commented how ridiculous it was that Coalition grunts carry a pistol, that generally couldn't even penetrate their own armor (the gun did 1d6 MD, had 10 shots; their armor had 50 MDC, making a kill unlikely, even if you hit with all 10 shots). ...


It doesn't bother me that an infantryman's body armor provides excellent protection against pistols. That makes sense.
What bugs me is that, under the rules as written, a 200 lb rail gun probably won't penetrate that armor either.
I've been experimenting with limiting the damage absorbed from a single attack to some fraction of the armor's total capacity (probably 1/4 to 1/3), with anything over the limit blowing through to the wearer.

Matt

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« Reply #89 on: August 06, 2014, 08:49:44 PM »
I mainly use N&SS and HU for Green Hornet and Kato type of action, so the armor and armories issues have never come up for me. N&SS seems to do just fine; I just use HU to supplement it for other character types.

P.S. It's refreshing to see a thread re: Palladium that isn't just pissing all over Kevin Siembieda over whatever business practices or personality deficiencies folks don't dig. Gotta pick up a nice used copy of Systems Failure if I can get a good price!