Quote from: Peregrin;361427Oh sure.  4e fights are definitely more satisfying -- moreso than 3.x IMO.  But the thing is, the dungeon was the focus of old play, so having satisfying combat minutiae wasn't as necessary since the entire dungeon was the focus of play, rather than set-piece battles in an otherwise (relatively) static environment.

I've seen WotC's modules and I think calling them set-pieces in relatively static environments is pretty fair. However, I'm building an fortress right now and it's not full of set-pieces and static environments. I think WotC's approach isn't a necessity, but rather the way they've decided to encapsulate information for DMs.

Seanchai

Quote from: jeff37923;361227So would the concept of DDI be considered a 4E innovation?

I suppose, but I don't see it as a good one; though if it had been implemented better it might have been.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;361430A new user registers, posts two posts in one discussion, directly related to the most controversial subject we ever have here, that seemingly contradict each other. First post is a simple anti-4E troll, similar to anything any of you regular nitwits could come up with. The second one is more advanced, sort of a false flag "Anyone who doesn't like 4e is brain damaged". Here he proves that he's been around for a while (referencing the famous Ron Edwards brain damage quote and then falsely tying it to some kind of Pro 4E comment).

Ironically, who leaps out of the woodwork to defend the guy? The other 4E haters.

It was probably IP-masked, but it's definitely a sock puppet account. Are you guys like..in on it? All I ever said was "ignore him" and you are all going "SLANDERRRRR!"

Huh.  It's almost like you are familiar with the process of setting up a virtually untraceable sockpuppet account.  I wonder why you are so absolutely certain it is a sockpuppet?  Instead of directing your concerns to Brett, you make a public show about it, then fan the flames when Dan says it doesn't look like a sockpuppet.  Then, you lay out the tactics and strategies of this alleged sockpuppet, while slyly getting in a reference to 'the most controversial topic we have here', trying to insinuate any of us give a shit about 4e when most of us just like to spend our off time pointing out glaring design flaws.  The, we hear about a brilliant 'false flag' ploy, and how the term 'brain damaged' didn't exist prior to Ron Edward's use as proof they are a long time poster.

And it all occurred when public opinion was turning against 4e once again.  I mean, that is a hell of a string of coincidences right there.

AM is a long-time poster here.  Maybe the sockpuppet is his and he's using it to garner sympathy for himself.

!i!

Quote from: Seanchai;361367Perhaps if a) you were a real person rather than a deliberately constructed personality, b) hadn't declared your undying hatred of 4e, c) weren't the instigator of a quixotic war against "the Swine," and d) hadn't clearly been trying to generate traffic on the site, I might take that at face value. I don't. This is just backpedaling bluster.

Seanchai

Ok dude, its been a good run but I think the jig is up. I think we'd best admit to people that you're a guy I've hired to generate traffic here... I mean, you put up a good show and everything, and I congratulate you, frankly I don't think you could keep it up this long.  But really, I think at this point its just not believable anymore that you'd just be an asshole who comes on here to just engage in blatant trolling out of impotent rage AND that you'd at the same time be stupid enough not to somehow realize that if my goal is indeed to merely increase this site's traffic at any cost, you're playing right into my hands.

So yeah, everyone, its time Sean and I come clean about this, though I think at this point no one could really possibly believe that Seanchai is actually such a massive, easily-manipulated tool blinded by his full-retard levels blind primitive envy.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;361476So yeah, everyone, its time Sean and I come clean about this...

So, you guys are like..in on it?

!i!

This thread divides by zero.

Quote from: RPGPundit;361471I suppose, but I don't see it as a good one; though if it had been implemented better it might have been.

RPGPundit

I won't deny that the implementation sucked donkey balls and a lot that was promised turned out to be vaporware or crippleware, but as an innovation it has merit.

For a cheaper subscription price than buying the 4E books, you have all the information at your computer that is constantly updated with new releases. The character builder is there which creates your PC, complete with all the references for powers printed along with it. Not too shabby.

Quote from: RPGPundit;361476Ok dude, its been a good run but I think the jig is up. I think we'd best admit to people that you're a guy I've hired to generate traffic here... I mean, you put up a good show and everything, and I congratulate you, frankly I don't think you could keep it up this long.  But really, I think at this point its just not believable anymore that you'd just be an asshole who comes on here to just engage in blatant trolling out of impotent rage AND that you'd at the same time be stupid enough not to somehow realize that if my goal is indeed to merely increase this site's traffic at any cost, you're playing right into my hands.

So yeah, everyone, its time Sean and I come clean about this, though I think at this point no one could really possibly believe that Seanchai is actually such a massive, easily-manipulated tool blinded by his full-retard levels blind primitive envy.

RPGPundit

Dude! You could have offered me this job! I work cheap!

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;361461Well, I dunno if that's mainly an internet phenomenon or what, but the comparison woouldn't phase most people.

The differences among they're, there, and their don't phase most people, either.  Regardless, Chainmail isn't an RPG, so the comparison is not only clumsy, it's wrong.

QuoteThere's no way 4e *isn't* a roleplaying game (which anyone who has played it, even skeptically, can tell you). The real issue has always been "It's not according to tradition!"

No, that isn't the real issue, no matter how often you say it.  The real issue is that 4e utilizes role playing the same way Chess utilizes it.  The role playing doesn't arise from play, it arises between play.  In other words, it is 'role playing the gaps' between having a figurine or dice in your hand resolving some task or combat round.

QuoteAnd I think in certain ways that might be true, but usually not in any way that anyone is ever willing to talk about (the social network effect in particular). Much of this thread talks about characters that can cast every round, and what I want to say, (to quote Tom Jones); It's not unusual.

There is no greater social network effect.  That is an illusion you use to pretend you are a popular member of a mainstream hobby.  I am guessing there are more new people interested in Curling at this year's Olympics alone than new people showing an interest in RPG's in the last five years or so.

Finally, casting spells every round is unusual, and I am not expecting any kind of evidence to show how it is normal.  Rather, I expect the usual pissing and moaning about how I don't participate in the hobby, and by inference, aren't as popular or as cool or as relevant as you are.

So, fire away.  Your tired nonsensical rants are entirely too predictable, but I will continue to point them out because much like the police, I am not going to turn a blind eye just because you are only shoplifting candybars.

I dedicate this post to the Pundit and Seachai; Jeff and SB; and Ian, AM and his sock puppet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A3j0zWpTs0

To you, Aos. With love from my Traveller games:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08LfHAh0jAY

Considering this whole mess involves sockpuppets, gender confusion, online personas, lust , alpha male bumps, macho posturings....I think this would be a better theme : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5dEjaJ6Mrw&feature=related

Regards,
David R

Quote from: StormBringer;361483No, that isn't the real issue, no matter how often you say it.  The real issue is that 4e utilizes role playing the same way Chess utilizes it.  The role playing doesn't arise from play, it arises between play.  In other words, it is 'role playing the gaps' between having a figurine or dice in your hand resolving some task or combat round.

I disagree with this, man. I disagreed with it, when I heard the RQ guys say the same thing about D&D back in the day. I don't play 4E, but I know a number of people who do play the game. It's a different game, no doubt, but it still plays like any other rpg. For most people (at least around here) it's just another version of D&D.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David R;361488I disagree with this, man. I disagreed with it, when I heard the RQ guys say the same thing about D&D back in the day. I don't play 4E, but I know a number of people who do play the game. It's a different game, no doubt, but it still plays like any other rpg. For most people (at least around here) it's just another version of D&D.

Regards,
David R

I think it was defined well earlier in the thread.

4E is a Tactical RPG while previous editions were Immersive RPGs. Still RPGs, just a different focus for the game play in RAW.