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Author Topic: HERO vs. GURPS vs. Savage Worlds  (Read 6408 times)

Aglondir

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HERO vs. GURPS vs. Savage Worlds
« Reply #105 on: August 02, 2019, 02:04:37 PM »
Quote from: dbm;1097973
Two thoughts on this: first, I don't want GURPS to become Savage Worlds or Fate, those niches are already covered. So a complete re-engineering of the system would just serve to alienate the existing player base in a D&D 4e style.
I'd like an evolution rather than a revolution. There are some clunky mechanics that could be smoothed out, much like the transition from 3E to 4E.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 02:05:00 PM by Aglondir »
And thus it came to pass that the Silmarils found their long homes: one in the airs of heaven, and one in the fires of the heart of the world, and one in the deep waters.

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Jaeger

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« Reply #106 on: August 02, 2019, 03:19:11 PM »
Quote from: dbm;1097973
Two thoughts on this: first, I don't want GURPS to become Savage Worlds or Fate, those niches are already covered. So a complete re-engineering of the system would just serve to alienate the existing player base in a D&D 4e style.
....

Quote from: Aglondir;1098002
I'd like an evolution rather than a revolution. There are some clunky mechanics that could be smoothed out, much like the transition from 3E to 4E.

SJG does not have to throw the baby out with the bathwater on this.

They could have a basic / advanced paradigm like TSR did back in the day.

Like I said in my previous posts, a true "Lite" version of Gurps.

Except I would not call it Gurps lite or basic, more like Gurps+ or Gurps 3d6, or something.

Sell it as a complete setting/game system. You'd keep the same stat line, DR, Parry , Block,  so it would be largely "upwards compatible" to main Gurps if someone feels that they want to get their RPG like a man on.

It really wouldn't be that hard to do - looking at Gurps it is more a matter of stripping things away, and universalizing costs. After all, it is just a simple 3d6 roll under skill system, that has had all kinds of additional gunk globed on top of it.

Full Gurps will still be there for the existing fans, But SJG will have a better gateway drug for gamers unfamiliar with SJG offerings.
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SavageSchemer

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HERO vs. GURPS vs. Savage Worlds
« Reply #107 on: August 02, 2019, 07:28:58 PM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1097683
From this you use either linux or bsd, so, what about a virtual machine?


I don't even like running Java in my VM's, but when I have to, that's precisely how I run it. I'm sure there are Docker images out there for it now too, but I don't work with Java much anymore so I'm not sure.
The more clichéd my group plays their characters, the better. I don't want Deep Drama™ and Real Acting™ in the precious few hours away from my family and job. I want cheap thrills, constant action, involved-but-not-super-complex plots, and cheesy but lovable characters.
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Skarg

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« Reply #108 on: August 03, 2019, 01:22:10 AM »
Some including SJ might say otherwise, but it seems to me the fastest and best way to learn and play "GURPS Lite" is to play The Fantasy Trip, which SJG just republished.

It's the super-easy-to-learn and play version of the same type of RPG, which also comes has a setting, and several adventures available with quite a few more on the way.

Character creation is easy, and if you're ok with it just being low-tech, it's a great into to the type of game. Most of the main things I like about GURPS are in TFT. I've always related to GURPS as "advanced, detailed, toolbox TFT that addresses the limits of TFT and can be used for any type of game."

It seems to me that TFT checks the complaints mentioned above about ease of learning, simple damage model, fast character generation, existence of a setting to get started with, etc.


(I usually choose to play GURPS in TFT mode - fantasy medieval with lots of detailed tactical combat.)

Toadmaster

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« Reply #109 on: August 03, 2019, 02:26:15 AM »
Quote from: Skarg;1098057
Some including SJ might say otherwise, but it seems to me the fastest and best way to learn and play "GURPS Lite" is to play The Fantasy Trip, which SJG just republished.

It's the super-easy-to-learn and play version of the same type of RPG, which also comes has a setting, and several adventures available with quite a few more on the way.

Character creation is easy, and if you're ok with it just being low-tech, it's a great into to the type of game. Most of the main things I like about GURPS are in TFT. I've always related to GURPS as "advanced, detailed, toolbox TFT that addresses the limits of TFT and can be used for any type of game."

It seems to me that TFT checks the complaints mentioned above about ease of learning, simple damage model, fast character generation, existence of a setting to get started with, etc.


(I usually choose to play GURPS in TFT mode - fantasy medieval with lots of detailed tactical combat.)


I find GURPS is at its best for fantasy, largely because of the detailed combat system. I never got the chance to play TFT back in the day, so I'm liking that TFT seems to be hitting my same likes as GURPS but with less fuss, since I have less time for the fuss of 4E.

dbm

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« Reply #110 on: August 03, 2019, 03:24:01 AM »
Quote from: Skarg;1098057
It seems to me that TFT checks the complaints mentioned above about ease of learning, simple damage model, fast character generation, existence of a setting to get started with, etc.

I was thinking the same thing. I have it on my shelf but haven't broken it out yet.

Alexander Kalinowski

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HERO vs. GURPS vs. Savage Worlds
« Reply #111 on: August 03, 2019, 04:58:31 AM »
Quote from: Jaeger;1097913

That's just crazy talk! Quick PC creation is always a plus.


If you're playing a low-lethality, character-intensive campaign, quick PC creation is a minus as it implies lack of depth.
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Rhedyn

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« Reply #112 on: August 03, 2019, 09:26:22 AM »
Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1098080
If you're playing a low-lethality, character-intensive campaign, quick PC creation is a minus as it implies lack of depth.
Ha. That's assuming the players want depth.

Alexander Kalinowski

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« Reply #113 on: August 03, 2019, 11:10:23 AM »
Quote from: Rhedyn;1098085
Ha. That's assuming the players want depth.

"...character-intensive campaign..." ;)
Author of the Knights of the Black Lily RPG, a game of sexy black fantasy.
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System: Faithful fantasy genre simulation. Bell-curved d100 as a core mechanic. Action economy based on interruptability. Cinematic attack sequences in melee. Fortune Points tied to scenario endgame stakes. Challenge-driven Game Design.
The dark gods await.

Alexander Kalinowski

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« Reply #114 on: August 03, 2019, 11:15:21 AM »
But, you know, it's kinda ironic that especially the D&D community apparently values quick character generation. Think about it: a lot of these campaigns are going to be Critical Role-style, where you can expect to play your PC till level 20. Think about how many hours of play that is going to entail. And then some of the D&D guys think a 2 or 3 hour chargen is too long - it should be 15 minutes, at best. Makes no sense to me.

Anyway, from a GM perspective I get it - if the campaign is supposed to be more lethal than that. The expected mortality rate of a campaign should potentially pose a limit on chargen. For, the more elaborate the chargen, the more hesitant a GM should be regarding killing off a PC.
Author of the Knights of the Black Lily RPG, a game of sexy black fantasy.
Setting: Ilethra, a fantasy continent ruled over by exclusively spiteful and bored gods who play with mortals for their sport.
System: Faithful fantasy genre simulation. Bell-curved d100 as a core mechanic. Action economy based on interruptability. Cinematic attack sequences in melee. Fortune Points tied to scenario endgame stakes. Challenge-driven Game Design.
The dark gods await.

Chris24601

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« Reply #115 on: August 03, 2019, 02:14:38 PM »
Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1098094
But, you know, it's kinda ironic that especially the D&D community apparently values quick character generation. Think about it: a lot of these campaigns are going to be Critical Role-style, where you can expect to play your PC till level 20. Think about how many hours of play that is going to entail. And then some of the D&D guys think a 2 or 3 hour chargen is too long - it should be 15 minutes, at best. Makes no sense to me.

You're confusing "creating a character" with "generating relevant game stats."

I easily spend 2-3 hours coming up with characters for D&D type games (probably twice that), but only a fraction of that time is actual picking of game mechanics. That part typically does fall in the 15-20 minutes range (maybe upto an hour if its a new system).

DocJones

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« Reply #116 on: August 03, 2019, 07:22:42 PM »
Quote from: Jaeger;1097799
No one ever said that it would be really helpful if Savage Worlds had a spreadsheet or app for character creation. Ever.
While no one ever said it, HeroLab has a Savage Worlds character generator.  The only generator that includes the source code, which made it easy for anyone writing a Savage Worlds supplement to create their own generator.  Some of them are complicated like Interface Zero.

Theory of Games

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« Reply #117 on: August 03, 2019, 09:00:34 PM »
Thanx everyone for comments.