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Author Topic: The State of OSR  (Read 2865 times)

Slambo

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Re: The State of OSR
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2020, 10:22:12 AM »
OSE fans, post a thread about OSE and explain what makes OSE "better" than Labyrinth Lord or other retro-clone.

The main praise for OSE is how good the layout is and how easy it is to use as a refrence, and i do personally like the layout a lot.

zircher

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Re: The State of OSR
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2020, 12:19:30 PM »
Where would you put Talislanta on that list?  It was developed and deployed in multiple systems in 2018-2019.
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Mercurius

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Re: The State of OSR
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2020, 01:29:29 PM »
Where would you put Talislanta on that list?  It was developed and deployed in multiple systems in 2018-2019.

I don't really see it as OSR or even "OSR adjacent." Sure, it harkens back to sword & sorcery and the science fantasy of the 70s, but not only is it distinctly different from D&D, it has its own history going back to the 80s. Also, it isn't based upon the D&D system in any way, except for the fact it uses d20s.

Mercurius

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Re: The State of OSR
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2020, 01:30:13 PM »
There's also Basic Fantasy RPG which along with many adventures and supplements is completely free.

https://www.basicfantasy.org/

Or can be purchased at cost price from Amazon.

It is already on my list: 2006. One of the early ones.

Mercurius

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Re: The State of OSR
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2020, 01:32:26 PM »
OSR+ Major Releases (Partial List)
2001 Hackmaster
2004 Castles & Crusades
2006 OSRIC; Basic Fantasy
2007 Labyrinth Lord
2009 Swords & Wizardry; Lamentation of the Flame Princess; Barbarians of Lemuria
2010 Dark Dungeons
2011 Mazes & Perils
2012 For Gold & Glory; Dungeon Crawl Classics
2013 Blueholme; Dungeon World; OD&D Deluxe (reprint of 1974 box); Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea
2017 Zweihander; Conan: Adventures in an Age Undreamed Of
2018 Forbidden Lands

HackMaster 4th edition and Castles and Crusades both predate the OSR.

Yeah, I know - but they are both related to the OSR movement, even inspiring it. I see it as important to note with even a sparse timeline, for context and roots.

Mercurius

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Re: The State of OSR
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2020, 01:34:10 PM »
RPGPundit's Lion & Dragon should be in a list of OSR notables because he went all-in on putting the medieval back into fantasy RPGing. And he says he bought a house on the proceeds so apparently it sold well.

https://www.amazon.com/Lion-Dragon-Medieval-Authentic-Roleplaying/dp/197958091X

Yeah, I suppose at least to honor the Pundit. On the other hand, does this game have much exposure beyond this site? I honestly don't know. I tried to include only "major" OSR games. This isn't a knock on the Pundit, as "major/minor" has nothing to do with quality - just popularity and influence.

estar

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Re: The State of OSR
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2020, 01:56:23 PM »
Yeah, I know - but they are both related to the OSR movement, even inspiring it. I see it as important to note with even a sparse timeline, for context and roots.
Castles & Crusade more so than Hackmaster 4e which was its own thing.

Discontent over C&C directly led to OSRIC and Basic Fantasy. 

Keep in mind that the OSR is just as much about DiYers as it is about classic editions. Which is why OSRIC and Basic Fantasy mark the beginning as the "hack"* they used with the D20 SRD was so straightforward that it opened the floodgate to not only clones but various types of supplement products. It also helped that neither were not issued a cease & desist by Wizards of the Coast. Not that it would have stopped either OSRIC and Basic Fantasy but a C&D would have had a chilling effect.

I know folks like the rope in RPGs with old school spirit even if they are not targeted at one of the classic edition. I don't have an issue with that but the core of makes the OSR what it is the DiY attitude. So those things that effect the OSR the most are those things that helps move that along either by contributing content  or serving as a guide for how to achieve similar projects.


*If you take the D20 SRD and omit the newer mechanics and additions what left is a hop and a skip from various classic editions of D&D.

DocJones

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Re: The State of OSR
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2020, 02:02:00 PM »
DCC is a 3.5 system written, more modern than others on the list you made.
What?  DCC is isn't even close to D&D 3.5.

Naburimannu

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Re: The State of OSR
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2020, 02:03:51 PM »
For me ACKS feels more oldschool than half of the titles on that list; it's a direct extension of B/X but very much its own thing.

Mercurius

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Re: The State of OSR
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2020, 02:18:05 PM »
Yeah, I know - but they are both related to the OSR movement, even inspiring it. I see it as important to note with even a sparse timeline, for context and roots.
Castles & Crusade more so than Hackmaster 4e which was its own thing.

Discontent over C&C directly led to OSRIC and Basic Fantasy. 

Keep in mind that the OSR is just as much about DiYers as it is about classic editions. Which is why OSRIC and Basic Fantasy mark the beginning as the "hack"* they used with the D20 SRD was so straightforward that it opened the floodgate to not only clones but various types of supplement products. It also helped that neither were not issued a cease & desist by Wizards of the Coast. Not that it would have stopped either OSRIC and Basic Fantasy but a C&D would have had a chilling effect.

I know folks like the rope in RPGs with old school spirit even if they are not targeted at one of the classic edition. I don't have an issue with that but the core of makes the OSR what it is the DiY attitude. So those things that effect the OSR the most are those things that helps move that along either by contributing content  or serving as a guide for how to achieve similar projects.


*If you take the D20 SRD and omit the newer mechanics and additions what left is a hop and a skip from various classic editions of D&D.

Yes, good point. Maybe this is where we can differentiate between "OSR books" and "old school" approach or attitude. The DIY can be applied to any edition, and in fact 5E is more "old school" than 3E and 4E in that it emphasizes a more ad hoc approach.

I found this rather massive list, which stretches the bounds of what is considered OSR and a retro-clone. I guess 4E retro-clones are a thing now.

http://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/dd-retroclones.html

Mercurius

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Re: The State of OSR
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2020, 02:19:09 PM »
For me ACKS feels more oldschool than half of the titles on that list; it's a direct extension of B/X but very much its own thing.

I'll add it, as I think it qualifies as "major."

Pat

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Re: The State of OSR
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2020, 03:10:50 PM »
HackMaster 4th edition and Castles and Crusades both predate the OSR.

Yeah, I know - but they are both related to the OSR movement, even inspiring it. I see it as important to note with even a sparse timeline, for context and roots.
Agreed, though I'd also put the SRD and the OGL on there, because they provided the foundation. And if you're including OD&D reprint, then the OD&D PDF re-release, and the premium editions of the AD&D core books also might deserve a note. Playing at the World was also a significant release, though not a rules set. And your 2011, 2017 and 2018 lines could be scratched without hurting your list at all.

Sunsword

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Re: The State of OSR
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2020, 02:08:26 PM »
OSE fans, post a thread about OSE and explain what makes OSE "better" than Labyrinth Lord or other retro-clone.

From my perspective it is very well organized and has a clean and tidy layout.

Is there another editon of Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea on the horizon?

Mercurius

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Re: The State of OSR
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2020, 06:31:35 PM »
OSE fans, post a thread about OSE and explain what makes OSE "better" than Labyrinth Lord or other retro-clone.

From my perspective it is very well organized and has a clean and tidy layout.

Is there another editon of Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea on the horizon?

I don't know if it is a new edition, but the 2nd edition is OOP and I read somewhere on their site that they're doing a new printing in 2021 that will have some extra frills - an index, I think. Not sure if there are any other changes, though.

I was going to pick up a copy but decided to wait for the new printing/edition.

Nerzenjäger

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Re: The State of OSR
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2020, 08:24:38 AM »
What?  DCC is isn't even close to D&D 3.5.

You didn't know that DCC is based off 3.5? Where do you think the saves come from?
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