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Author Topic: The scoop by D&D Shorts about the new OGL and the situation at Wizards  (Read 2004 times)

Reckall

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The D&D Shorts Youtube channel published his account of what is going on behind the scenes at WotC, based on multiple leaks (how he proceeded to verify that they are legit is in the description).

In my post about the situation I mused if WotC had somehow already invested too much (in signed contracts and/or money) to be able to just step back. Apparently, the key to the recent brouhaha is that they want for D&D to become a digital experience (*) and they already invested hundreds of millions in their digital initiatives. This tracks with other sources who basically said that everything turns around VTTs and that WotC wants for them to disappear. D&DBeyond was bought just to be killed ($150 millions just for the first step??) Everything else aims to turn D&D into a “videogame model”.

I believe the rest because it is terminally banal. The lower ranks play D&D, understand the market, are not listened to and now they are scared about their live hoods. The bunch of people who run the circus do not play D&D, and are clueless about the realities of the game and its community. They see M:TG as a $1 billion market while D&D brings home $100-150 millions/year. The aim is to increase this revenue… eight fold?? If there is an highway to suicide, it is this one.

Anyway, here is the video. Don’t forget to check the description and the process used to collect this info.

(*) BTW, didn’t Neverwinter Nights the computer game(s) already do that decades ago?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4kGMsZSdbY
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Bruwulf

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Re: The scoop by D&D Shorts about the new OGL and the situation at Wizards
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2023, 02:27:02 PM »
(*) BTW, didn’t Neverwinter Nights the computer game(s) already do that decades ago?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4kGMsZSdbY

It... tried. Bless it's heart, it tried.


S'mon

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Re: The scoop by D&D Shorts about the new OGL and the situation at Wizards
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2023, 03:08:06 PM »
Kyle Reese tells the OGL 1.0 about WoTC's Digital Initiative:

"It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop... ever, until you are dead!"


Jaeger

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Re: The scoop by D&D Shorts about the new OGL and the situation at Wizards
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2023, 04:22:22 PM »
The D&D Shorts Youtube channel published his account of what is going on behind the scenes at WotC, based on multiple leaks (how he proceeded to verify that they are legit is in the description).

In my post about the situation I mused if WotC had somehow already invested too much (in signed contracts and/or money) to be able to just step back. Apparently, the key to the recent brouhaha is that they want for D&D to become a digital experience (*) and they already invested hundreds of millions in their digital initiatives. This tracks with other sources who basically said that everything turns around VTTs and that WotC wants for them to disappear. D&DBeyond was bought just to be killed ($150 millions just for the first step??) Everything else aims to turn D&D into a “videogame model”.

Agreed.

Wotzi is what poker players would call: Pot-Invested. They have too much riding to just fold now. They must see things through to the river if they want any chance of seeing a return.

D&D makes 150 million a year, and they've already spent at least double that buying D&D beyond, and investing in the OneVTT.

Wreckers or checkers territory. This OGL shit is going to court.

The devious thing to do would be to apply for a court to issue a preliminary injunction against Wotzi rolling out OGL 1.2 until the issues with the irrevocability of OGL 1.0 get resolved.

That would really piss in their cheerios...


I believe the rest because it is terminally banal. The lower ranks play D&D, understand the market, are not listened to and now they are scared about their live hoods. The bunch of people who run the circus do not play D&D, and are clueless about the realities of the game and its community. They see M:TG as a $1 billion market while D&D brings home $100-150 millions/year. The aim is to increase this revenue… eight fold?? If there is an highway to suicide, it is this one.
...


Absolutely rings true. Especially the parts where WotC contradicts itself and is speaking out of both sides of its mouth regarding the $30.00 fees for the upcoming One VTT, with D&D beyond saying that they will never charge $30.00 fee's.

Most of the hobby will never realize that they are talking about two different things, and take Corp wotzi's word over insider source Wotzi employee's.
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Shrieking Banshee

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Re: The scoop by D&D Shorts about the new OGL and the situation at Wizards
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2023, 04:40:39 PM »
I was skeptical before but somehow less now.

Why would they charge for 'homebrew'? Because they would charge for the non-automation options. They would also charge for the map-making capabilities. I think them calling it homebrew makes more sense as internal communication between internal things, and not necessarily purely exec presentation.

Fheredin

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Re: The scoop by D&D Shorts about the new OGL and the situation at Wizards
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2023, 05:37:34 PM »
That's all well and good, but what about this actually changes anything? And this is to say nothing about what upper level Hasbro has been up to, because you know they've got a finger in this.

I think it's obvious at least that Paizo brainstormed what to do if WotC went full Double Flying Dutchman Douchebag on them, and the speed other companies got behind the ORC makes me think they actually did some networking homework over the 5E years. Might be wrong on that, but Paizo getting pinched by 4E probably made them plan to fight back the next time.

But at the end of the day...who cares? D&D is a fossil of a game which only maintained it's marketshare thanks to OGL content. I think this incident and it's fallout over the next year is probably going to spell the end of D&D's majority marketshare, and frankly that can't end soon enough for my tastes.





Jam The MF

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Re: The scoop by D&D Shorts about the new OGL and the situation at Wizards
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2023, 05:50:31 PM »
The D&D Shorts Youtube channel published his account of what is going on behind the scenes at WotC, based on multiple leaks (how he proceeded to verify that they are legit is in the description).

In my post about the situation I mused if WotC had somehow already invested too much (in signed contracts and/or money) to be able to just step back. Apparently, the key to the recent brouhaha is that they want for D&D to become a digital experience (*) and they already invested hundreds of millions in their digital initiatives. This tracks with other sources who basically said that everything turns around VTTs and that WotC wants for them to disappear. D&DBeyond was bought just to be killed ($150 millions just for the first step??) Everything else aims to turn D&D into a “videogame model”.

Agreed.

Wotzi is what poker players would call: Pot-Invested. They have too much riding to just fold now. They must see things through to the river if they want any chance of seeing a return.

D&D makes 150 million a year, and they've already spent at least double that buying D&D beyond, and investing in the OneVTT.

Wreckers or checkers territory. This OGL shit is going to court.

The devious thing to do would be to apply for a court to issue a preliminary injunction against Wotzi rolling out OGL 1.2 until the issues with the irrevocability of OGL 1.0 get resolved.

That would really piss in their cheerios...


I believe the rest because it is terminally banal. The lower ranks play D&D, understand the market, are not listened to and now they are scared about their live hoods. The bunch of people who run the circus do not play D&D, and are clueless about the realities of the game and its community. They see M:TG as a $1 billion market while D&D brings home $100-150 millions/year. The aim is to increase this revenue… eight fold?? If there is an highway to suicide, it is this one.
...


Absolutely rings true. Especially the parts where WotC contradicts itself and is speaking out of both sides of its mouth regarding the $30.00 fees for the upcoming One VTT, with D&D beyond saying that they will never charge $30.00 fee's.

Most of the hobby will never realize that they are talking about two different things, and take Corp wotzi's word over insider source Wotzi employee's.


And sometimes, those high stakes gamblers lose big time.  They push their bets too far, as though they have a royal flush; but in the end, they don't.
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Effete

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Re: The scoop by D&D Shorts about the new OGL and the situation at Wizards
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2023, 06:17:59 PM »
Wotzi is what poker players would call: Pot-Invested. They have too much riding to just fold now. They must see things through to the river if they want any chance of seeing a return.

Just to build off this analogy, WotC has no pokerface. Their cards are on the table and everyone has called their bluff. Everything hinges on how much collateral they can offer to buy into the next hand.

GeekyBugle

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Re: The scoop by D&D Shorts about the new OGL and the situation at Wizards
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2023, 06:23:50 PM »
IF Wotzi manages to release a good game they'll be competing with other MMORPGs but with 3 distinct advantages:

1.- Name recognition

2.- Single player mode

3.- The DM (Be it a good AI or human)

WoW charges $15 US month, which doesn't include ANY "free" cosmetics, I bet those who spend money playing MMORPGs spend very close to $30 US, which is Wotzi thinks they can get that price for the "All inclusive" subscription, I suspect the base one will be around the 15 dollar mark with microtransactions up the wazoo.

How many people (Normies) will try it? I bet they have crunched their numbers and it's worth the risk for them.

Now, IF they were to leave the VTTs alone and don't engage in lawfare against publishers then I wish them all the luck in the world.

If not, well I can buy me tabletop simulator or install maptools. Anyone of those solutions is not only cheaper than paying Wotzi it's also the way to give them the finger for being such douchebags.
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VisionStorm

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Re: The scoop by D&D Shorts about the new OGL and the situation at Wizards
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2023, 06:35:01 PM »
As I mentioned in my comment on DnD Shorts' video, if TTRPG gamers and MMO players were interchangeable with each other, and TTRPGs could be replaced by MMOs it would've happened already, cuz MMOs have been a thing for DECADES. As mentioned in the OP, NWNs even tried to do this already—and it was a very successful game, with a very enduring community—yet it STILL didn't replace tabletop. It merely added an extra set of options for a subset of the community that overlapped with TTRPG gamers, but didn't replace TTRPGs, or even became the primary way to play D&D.

This is why all attempts to completely digitalize TTRPGs have failed and will continue to fail. The point of TTRPGs is that they don't have to be digital. And even when you play them through a digital environment you don't need special tools. You can just play through some type of chat or VOIP app, and make your character in a notepad or word file. You don't even need special fillable pdf character sheets, but even having those means you don't need a special $30 fucking dollars a month subscription platform to play.

These idiot execs are trying to build a more expensive MMO to replace a TTRPG that has never been replaced by MMOs in the vague and uncertain hope that D&D players (not just DMs, but PLAYERS) will pony up $30/mo, and it will FAIL—drastically! Now they're in panic mode after this debacle, going into sunken cost fallacy mode, trying to make this work however they can cuz they've invested so much into this already, but it will FAIL and end up costing Hasbro MILLIONS.

And by the way, the reason why NWN was so successful at what it did and endured so long was cuz it was open to the community, who could publish free community created content online without WotC or Bioware having to take a cut. It wasn't a walled off environment like the one these imbeciles are trying to make.

This is what you get when arrogant idiots who come from a different industry and think they can make an unrelated, but superficially similar industry work the same way as the industry they come from, because they're ALL the same thing, amirite? Except they're not, or they wouldn't still be separate industries DECADES after the video game industry kicked off and started coughing out video game "RPGs" and MMOs while TTRPGs always remained a thing—because they're NOT the same thing.

The fallout when this entire effort implodes and their quasi-MMO platform fails to replace TTRPGs will be GLORIOUS!

Chris24601

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Re: The scoop by D&D Shorts about the new OGL and the situation at Wizards
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2023, 06:42:15 PM »
That's all well and good, but what about this actually changes anything? And this is to say nothing about what upper level Hasbro has been up to, because you know they've got a finger in this.
What it changes is that we know how desperate Hasbro is for their plan to succeed and that their actual goal is to shut down the RPG industry (especially competitor VTTs) outside itself so it can drag everyone into semi-MMO paypig model.

Because while they have clearly been using money from other departments to cover it, between the movie (to say nothing of its marketing and distribution and gearing up the various tie-in products), buying D&D Beyond and buying the VTT material (plus whatever they’ve spent on development of their actual VTT walled garden)… is already around the revenue of 5e over its entire lifetime (at least half-a-billion dollars).

If OneD&D fails… D&D is DONE. You can’t sink years of profits from an IP into an initiative and have it fail without the board/investors shutting the whole department down to reinvest in more profitable divisions. The Hasbro and WotC CEO’s would absolutely be out on their asses.

Those are the stakes for the corporate goons… and why failure to achieve the goals of the OGL1.1 by any means necessary is simply not something they will allow.

Right now they’re trying a more deceptive weasel-worded approach with 1.2, but their end goals are the same; with empty gestures (the “release the rules under CC-by-4.0” play which is only the material they couldn’t actually copyright anyway) and poison pills all around.

Make no mistake… if they are this heavily invested they will go “zero-percent approval tyrant” and push out everything from the OGL1.1 anyway… they’d like to be liked as they attempt to drink the RPG industry dry of its blood to fill Hasbro’s overextended coffers, but that’s a side bennie they’ll drop if it’s clearly impossible just like a hungry vampire will eventually drop the pretenses if they aren’t luring in the bictim and just take what they want.

Opaopajr

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Re: The scoop by D&D Shorts about the new OGL and the situation at Wizards
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2023, 07:56:21 PM »
If true, then the only language the suits upstairs understand is squeezing their wallets until they scream and are fired by their shareholders. Which means that there should be a full customer ignoring (one could call it a boycott, if they so choose;  ;) I choose not to call it so) of ALL retail things Hasbro/WotC: movie, games, action figures, board games, CCG, t-shirts, video games, TTRPGs, lifestyle toasters, silicone rubber scrapers, etc.

Every. Single. Thing.

Don't talk about Hasbro or WotC beyond eye-rolling disinterest. ::) They chose not to exist anymore. They no longer want to offer goods and services to their customers, instead they expect tribute from their supplicants. And the fastest way to make a narcissistic, abusive, wanna-be-idol fall back to earth is apathy.

So ignore everything that gives them money, power, or attention.  8) Hasbro and WotC are dead, 2023. Long live used market D&D.
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Lynn

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Re: The scoop by D&D Shorts about the new OGL and the situation at Wizards
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2023, 08:34:41 PM »
Why would they charge for 'homebrew'? Because they would charge for the non-automation options. They would also charge for the map-making capabilities. I think them calling it homebrew makes more sense as internal communication between internal things, and not necessarily purely exec presentation.
Because they can.

It would make sense to have a cheap entry level that allows character creation and management based on the PHB, but entering your own custom classes and spells be a feature that costs more than the entry level.
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Ratman_tf

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Re: The scoop by D&D Shorts about the new OGL and the situation at Wizards
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2023, 09:07:31 PM »
As I mentioned in my comment on DnD Shorts' video, if TTRPG gamers and MMO players were interchangeable with each other, and TTRPGs could be replaced by MMOs it would've happened already, cuz MMOs have been a thing for DECADES. As mentioned in the OP, NWNs even tried to do this already—and it was a very successful game, with a very enduring community—yet it STILL didn't replace tabletop. It merely added an extra set of options for a subset of the community that overlapped with TTRPG gamers, but didn't replace TTRPGs, or even became the primary way to play D&D.

This is why all attempts to completely digitalize TTRPGs have failed and will continue to fail. The point of TTRPGs is that they don't have to be digital.

Exactly, and it's frustrating when some chucklehead comes along and tries to fit a square TTRPG peg into a round video game hole.

Go ahead and make a D&D MMO. Make a phone app with the D&D branding and monetize the fuck out of it. These approaches would be vastly superior, and would leave the existing game alone to generate brand interest.

Or, go the WOTC way, and blow up the brand and burn millions of dollars and have nothing to show for it beyond youtube commentators mocking their stupidity.
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