Quote from: NeonAce;1131133Wow! That's gross. The cool thing with Street Fighter fans is that they're just out to have a good time. Sure, White Wolf left them after 1 year of supporting the game (or maybe the license just expired...), but then they wrote their own 20th Anniversary edition and translate each others' fan materials between English and Portuguese, because the Brazilians love some Street Fighter. They buy WW or OPP stuff if they like it, or don't if they don't. Here's a character: Ze'ev 'Pop' Levin is from the Israeli Special Forces, and has the Animal Companion background to get a pet wolf (named something like "Scrapper" for that whole "Mutt & Junkyard" G.I. Joe thing). His signature is that he loves Coca-Cola soda pop and pops a can after each match, but he also pops anti-semites & Shadoloo operatives in weird online communities in the nose if they ever show up at his matches making cracks about money & his ethnicity. He also likes to jet ski and wind surfing. Though otherwise tough as nails, contortionists freak him out (yeah, it's not Dhalsim's baby skull necklace that freaks him out, it's the contortion!) Face it. It's a great character!

I really enjoyed the adventure module they put out with its Ramses-dictator villain and very colorful GI Joe meets Kung Fu Movie (which is Street Fighter in a nutshell when you think about it) themes.

Shadow Law (Shadoloo) was also a very well detailed enemy for those who wanted to run a SPECTER-esque villain.

It is a shame that Capcom's license was too expensive to continue.

Alas, all of my Street Fighter books were destroyed by an overflowing toilet in college.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1131090What do I see you doing? Shilling for Onyx Path. Acting as an apologist for them at every point. And I personally find that disgusting.

To be honest he seems to have some nuances here and there. But yeah, this is the kind of posts I saw a lot on the WW/Onyx Path and Shadownessence fora. A lot of fanboyish defending of the product at all cost. I once had a guy say to me that Onyx Path was doing a new business model after I said it was weird they were making new oWoD books again with those Convention Books in 2012/2013. 11 years after the first one. That's kinda sorta admitting the old settings sold more and were more popular. But no, new business model. Yeah, right!

Quote from: jan paparazzi;1131146To be honest he seems to have some nuances here and there. But yeah, this is the kind of posts I saw a lot on the WW/Onyx Path and Shadownessence fora. A lot of fanboyish defending of the product at all cost. I once had a guy say to me that Onyx Path was doing a new business model after I said it was weird they were making new oWoD books again with those Convention Books in 2012/2013. 11 years after the first one. That's kinda sorta admitting the old settings sold more and were more popular. But no, new business model. Yeah, right!

I actually didn't know the Convention books were them. They were very well-written but sadly, felt like Technocracy apologia which I think we don't need more of right now since they're literally a fascist conspiracy based on Steve Jackson's Illuminati.

I'm honestly not a big fan of V20 or many of the other 20th Anniversary WoD products. As stated, I don't have much use for non-metaplot products. I generally think their books are very readable but I'm a V5 man over a V20 man. Some of them are really good (Red List, Red Names, Beckett's Jyhad Diary, Anarchs Unbound) but others didn't do much for me (hunters hunted II, Children of the Revolution).

I've not bought any of their Chronicles of Darkness books save the most recent Hunter: The Vigil. It's just not my jam.

I've backed Kickstarters of products I like.

I have nothing to say on their business model other than I enjoy its products and it seems a fairly safe way to not take a bath on gaming products but it's better to be a full-fledged print run like V5 under Paradox Interactive. I do feel they helped keep the brand alive when White Wolf let the tabletop side die out. Its people seem to be really passionate fans of the hobby so good for them.

I do love they post their progress on all their books every Monday, though.

I am SUPER-PASSIONATE about the World of Darkness but that doesn't necessarily translate to the companies that produce content or individual product. OPP seem like a nice bunch, though.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131138I really enjoyed the adventure module they put out with its Ramses-dictator villain and very colorful GI Joe meets Kung Fu Movie (which is Street Fighter in a nutshell when you think about it) themes.

Shadow Law (Shadoloo) was also a very well detailed enemy for those who wanted to run a SPECTER-esque villain.

It is a shame that Capcom's license was too expensive to continue.

Alas, all of my Street Fighter books were destroyed by an overflowing toilet in college.

Yeah, "The Perfect Warrior", heh. While I love the Street Fighter RPG, it has its hilariously bad stuff too. Mostly art and any original character White Wolf made, or their crazy invention of lore before Capcom fleshed it out themselves over the following years. But, if you just ignored it, or rolled with it like an over the top cartoon, it was all good. Years later, Living Room Games acquired a license to make "Capcom World Tournament", but they never got it together and released before their license expired. There was a demo pack released and some playtesting happened, but the system was a fiddly D&D 3-era d20 based game that didn't deliver the goods in the same way as the WW game, even if they did have amazing Udon art. If you ever feel the call of the ring... Street Fighter Paradise

I never thought there would be a need of more than one vote to give... and yet now I am glad I abstained because the running for this booby prize just heated up. :eek: (I kinda like this topic's honey trap aspect of keeping all the WW bizzare venomous drama in this one space, though. )

Random observation about Vampire: The Masquerade's fame.



The Vampyr video game sold 1,000,000 copies and was a surprising success despite not being a Triple A game. However, it sold 75% of those copies in Europe where it was a top selling game in the UK, France, and Germany. Many more were spread out across the rest of Europe. It also sold its first 500,000 copies via direct digital sales to similar figures. In America, where vampires have long been a pop culture phenomenon, the sales were middling at best bordering on a failure.

So it might be differing cultural attitudes.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;1131146To be honest he seems to have some nuances here and there. But yeah, this is the kind of posts I saw a lot on the WW/Onyx Path and Shadownessence fora. A lot of fanboyish defending of the product at all cost. I once had a guy say to me that Onyx Path was doing a new business model after I said it was weird they were making new oWoD books again with those Convention Books in 2012/2013. 11 years after the first one. That's kinda sorta admitting the old settings sold more and were more popular. But no, new business model. Yeah, right!

Chronicles of Darkness was profitable. Who would have thought? But apparently nostalgia wins out even when it doesn't make sense.

I don't understand why Paradox can't just copy the D&D 5e DMG and make a unified rules system that acknowledges the various campaign settings that have existed.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131203Random observation about Vampire: The Masquerade's fame.



The Vampyr video game sold 1,000,000 copies and was a surprising success despite not being a Triple A game. However, it sold 75% of those copies in Europe where it was a top selling game in the UK, France, and Germany. Many more were spread out across the rest of Europe. It also sold its first 500,000 copies via direct digital sales to similar figures. In America, where vampires have long been a pop culture phenomenon, the sales were middling at best bordering on a failure.

So it might be differing cultural attitudes.

I haven't found any evidence that VTM has become more popular in Europe. Like almost everything that isn't D&D, it's consistently been declining worldwide in the last two decades. Most roleplaying has apparently moved to chats now, and they don't need bulky rulebooks to tell them how to play.

Vampyr isn't a good example, as it doesn't have a lot of what set VTM apart. Namely, the ridiculously convoluted backstory and the high school cliques. Although I suspect Paradox is going to keep altering the setting until it's unrecognizable.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1131222Chronicles of Darkness was profitable. Who would have thought? But apparently nostalgia wins out even when it doesn't make sense.

I don't understand why Paradox can't just copy the D&D 5e DMG and make a unified rules system that acknowledges the various campaign settings that have existed.



I haven't found any evidence that VTM has become more popular in Europe. Like almost everything that isn't D&D, it's consistently been declining worldwide in the last two decades. Most roleplaying has apparently moved to chats now, and they don't need bulky rulebooks to tell them how to play.

[video=youtube;7jUzkcOTEwk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jUzkcOTEwk&t=1383s[/youtube]

Well this came out yesterday and they talk about the organizing internationally of the Latin American fans for V5 and expansions of new products in Eastern Europe. But it requires you to devote quite a bit of time to listening since it's the first twenty minutes devoted to celebrating Latin American gaming.

QuoteVampyr isn't a good example, as it doesn't have a lot of what set VTM apart. Namely, the ridiculously convoluted backstory and the high school cliques. Although I suspect Paradox is going to keep altering the setting until it's unrecognizable.

Vampyr has some of the most pretentious vampires of all time. Yahztee makes fun of their ridiculous names and convoluted backstory relating to the British Empire, Merlin, and Morrigan.

[video=youtube_share;aD5sJVFNGAM]https://youtu.be/aD5sJVFNGAM[/youtube]

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131228Well this came out yesterday and they talk about the organizing internationally of the Latin American fans for V5 and expansions of new products in Eastern Europe. But it requires you to devote quite a bit of time to listening since it's the first twenty minutes devoted to celebrating Latin American gaming.

Hmmm... interesting. They don't have nearly as many fans as they used to. On the WoD youtube channel they only garnered 13,000 views in three months for the LA by Night Season 4 premier video. With over a million sales Vampyre: The Pretentious is a platinum best seller despite having piss poor game play and a ridiculously unbelievable story line and game plot if Yahtzee accurately summarized the game.

Also having HarperCollins in as a supporter of V:TM or WoD is a non-starter. That is a publishing company, not a gaming company. Looks like the Coven is all busy drinking at the fountain of suck now.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1131236Hmmm... interesting. They don't have nearly as many fans as they used to. On the WoD youtube channel they only garnered 13,000 views in three months for the LA by Night Season 4 premier video. With over a million sales Vampyre: The Pretentious is a platinum best seller despite having piss poor game play and a ridiculously unbelievable story line and game plot if Yahtzee accurately summarized the game.

Also having HarperCollins in as a supporter of V:TM or WoD is a non-starter. That is a publishing company, not a gaming company. Looks like the Coven is all busy drinking at the fountain of suck now.

LA By Night on the White Wolf channel is a resposting.

It was originally posted on Geek and Sundry's Twitch channel.

Then it was posted on Geek and Sundry's Youtube channel.

Then it was removed from Geek and Sundry and reposted on White Wolf when they started their own channel. Even Season 4 is still on Twitch first and that's after anyone has lost.

Here's Seattle by Night's Youtube channel, which wasn't nearly as popular and has 80K views.

[video=youtube;f2smsDmVfco]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2smsDmVfco[/youtube]

There's a big difference between a franchise's own pull and piggy-backing on somebody else's subscribers.

WW games don't have the pull they used to. The urban fantasy genre in general is pretty played out.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1131241There's a big difference between a franchise's own pull and piggy-backing on somebody else's subscribers.

WW games don't have the pull they used to.

Well I'm not here to convince people that White Wolf is having a Renaissance. I'm not their publicist and it doesn't really think they care what any of us think of their business model or how it's working out for them. I think they're doing great but it's no sweat off my back if they not. I'm just happy about their new product and how happy I am that new material is coming out as well as the thing.

I'm an enthusiastic invested fan who wants them to succeed. Nothing more.

Sorry if I've given off a different vibe.

QuoteThe urban fantasy genre in general is pretty played out.

I think that's not true from what I know of the market.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131242I'm an enthusiastic invested fan who wants them to succeed. Nothing more.

I think that's not true from what I know of the market.

Well, the fan base here in the U.S. is certainly not nearly as large as it used to be. I'm thinking they will pickup some more followers though in South America, based on the YouTube video. There should be a Spanish as well as a Portuguese version of this video, ...yes? Why is this not much more popular in Europe? Currently it's ranked 8th worldwide as of Dec 31st 2019, so not as bad as I originally thought. Still though..

Dungeon World #7
GURPS is #6
Call of Cthulu #5
Shadowrun 5e #4
Pathfinder #3
Dresden Files #2
and D&D 5e #1

Note that this is worldwide sales and popularity, not just U.S. WoD is #12, specifically the version written by Monte Cook.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1131258Well, the fan base here in the U.S. is certainly not nearly as large as it used to be. I'm thinking they will pickup some more followers though in South America, based on the YouTube video. There should be a Spanish as well as a Portuguese version of this video, ...yes? Why is this not much more popular in Europe? Currently it's ranked 8th worldwide as of Dec 31st 2019, so not as bad as I originally thought. Still though..

Dungeon World #7
GURPS is #6
Call of Cthulu #5
Shadowrun 5e #4
Pathfinder #3
Dresden Files #2
and D&D 5e #1

Note that this is worldwide sales and popularity, not just U.S. WoD is #12, specifically the version written by Monte Cook.

Fascinating details!

Thanks for sharing this.

Edit:

Random factoid but the 2nd best selling "Other Fantasy" RPG of 2019 was "Changeling the Lost" after Shadowrun. D&D and Pathfinder excluded for some reason--which would make it 4th on the list.

https://www.geeknative.com/70017/the-other-best-selling-fantasy-rpgs-of-2019/

This is, of course, just DriveThru RPG and not reflective of store or Modiphius website sales.

There's more... I decided to take a look at WOTC and see how the 5e sales were doing with Covids and all. Now they are a subsidiary of Hasbro so they are folded in under "Hasbro Gaming".  Revenues for Hasbro Gaming in just the first quarter of 2020 was $340,480,000. This includes D&D (Which I estimated last year brought in about $140M in revenues in 2018), Magic the Gathering, which brings in significantly more than D&D, and of course all the board games, you know, Monopoly, Life, etc. etc. Basically revenues were up about 40% from Hasbro Gaming. Not sure what percentage of that increase is attributed to D&D because Hasbro has been keeping the actual D&D sales and profit numbers confidential. I'll make a guess though based some other details included in their annual report (Which includes number of D&D players, worldwide.  

Hasbro, however reported  a $70 Million Dollar loss for the first quarter of 2020. It turns out in December of 2019 Hasbro bought another company, just about as big as itself, eOne, a Canadian company. Entertainment One Ltd., also known as eOne, is a Canadian multinational entertainment company and a subsidiary of American toy manufacturer Hasbro. Based in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, the company is primarily involved in the acquisition, distribution, and production of films, music, and television series. The company was listed on the London Stock Exchange until it was acquired by Hasbro in December 2019.

Anyways, A few slides for you from the Hasbro Q1 2020 financial report...
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Note the $400 Million increase in income from 2019. This came at a heavy cost though, Hasbro borrowed heavily to complete the acquisition and conduct the buyout, and tripled it's long term debt... They also marked down an awful lot of goodwill (over 3 billion dollars) to the eOne acquisition, which will only pan out in the long term if eOne earns revenues at the rate it was before it was acquired. The bad news already, eOne revenues are down 46% in the first quarter of 2020 alone...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4496[/ATTACH]

And doubled it's long term liability...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4497[/ATTACH]

Hasbro spent 140 million dollars in the first quarter of 2020 to (hopefully) complete the acquisition of eOne. They also spent over a billion dollars in the offer last year, cashing out the eOne stockholders and with the golden parachutes for the eOne board and management staff. I think they did this mostly with a stock trade though and borrowing money to buy the outstanding eOne stock, which is where the "goodwill" comes in, so their cash-in-hand position is roughly the same as it was last year. They are spending three times as much though, servicing their new debt load created by the buyout, somewhere around 60 million dollars annually where before, they were only spending 22 million dollars a year.

Hasbro is still committed to providing an annual dividends payout to their sharholders. This should be an interesting year for that though, depending on how eOne performs for the rest of the year.

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