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Author Topic: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again  (Read 118830 times)

robh

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #780 on: May 08, 2021, 05:15:52 AM »
<snip>
Warning (6/14/16) (warned against referencing the books in a GoT thread)

 ???
How the fuck is anyone supposed to discuss anything if you are not allowed to reference the source material?
Or is that the whole purpose of the mod policy, no discussions just read our approved content.

Omega

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #781 on: May 08, 2021, 05:40:27 AM »
Obviously you dont.

Its slowly becoming the Sy-Fy Channel of RPGs where you arent allowed to actually talk about RPGs.

Wntrlnd

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #782 on: May 08, 2021, 06:26:35 AM »
<snip>
Warning (6/14/16) (warned against referencing the books in a GoT thread)

 ???
How the fuck is anyone supposed to discuss anything if you are not allowed to reference the source material?
Or is that the whole purpose of the mod policy, no discussions just read our approved content.

Those GoT threads were about the HBO show. It was to guard against spoilers from those who had read the books. Stuff like the Red wedding and all that.

TJS

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #783 on: May 08, 2021, 06:52:05 AM »
<snip>
Warning (6/14/16) (warned against referencing the books in a GoT thread)

 ???
How the fuck is anyone supposed to discuss anything if you are not allowed to reference the source material?
Or is that the whole purpose of the mod policy, no discussions just read our approved content.

Those GoT threads were about the HBO show. It was to guard against spoilers from those who had read the books. Stuff like the Red wedding and all that.
Spoliers are probably literally violence or something.

Kyle Aaron

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #784 on: May 08, 2021, 08:59:58 AM »
It's a bit weird that a board dominated by people who are so sensitive about violence to the vulnerable could so much enjoy a show which has a lot of lurid depictions of sexualised violence against women, including an instance or two of a woman being raped and then falling in love with her rapist, or coming to enjoy the experience. And of course, where someone comes to lead an army of enslaved men who have suffered amputatory genital mutilation.

I would have thought the content is... "Problematic", to say the least.
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wmarshal

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #785 on: May 08, 2021, 09:09:17 AM »
It's a bit weird that a board dominated by people who are so sensitive about violence to the vulnerable could so much enjoy a show which has a lot of lurid depictions of sexualised violence against women, including an instance or two of a woman being raped and then falling in love with her rapist, or coming to enjoy the experience. And of course, where someone comes to lead an army of enslaved men who have suffered amputatory genital mutilation.

I would have thought the content is... "Problematic", to say the least.
I’ve not read the GoT threads, but if the direction of the anime moderation over there is anything to go by then practically every other post in those threads ought to include a ritual denouncing of the show for all the terrible stuff it includes because just the existence of rape, slavery, etc. in a show “normalizes” those things and acts as apologia for those awful things, especially if there is no explicit ritual denouncing to condemn awful things.

Ghostmaker

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #786 on: May 08, 2021, 10:23:35 AM »
<snip>
Warning (6/14/16) (warned against referencing the books in a GoT thread)

 ???
How the fuck is anyone supposed to discuss anything if you are not allowed to reference the source material?
Or is that the whole purpose of the mod policy, no discussions just read our approved content.
What wntrlnd said. Sorry, I should've been more clear when I posted that.

I can kinda see why they'd do that, but it sticks out hilariously against all the other 'infractions'.

Reckall

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #787 on: May 08, 2021, 12:02:54 PM »
It's a bit weird that a board dominated by people who are so sensitive about violence to the vulnerable could so much enjoy a show which has a lot of lurid depictions of sexualised violence against women, including an instance or two of a woman being raped and then falling in love with her rapist, or coming to enjoy the experience. And of course, where someone comes to lead an army of enslaved men who have suffered amputatory genital mutilation.

I would have thought the content is... "Problematic", to say the least.
I’ve not read the GoT threads, but if the direction of the anime moderation over there is anything to go by then practically every other post in those threads ought to include a ritual denouncing of the show for all the terrible stuff it includes because just the existence of rape, slavery, etc. in a show “normalizes” those things and acts as apologia for those awful things, especially if there is no explicit ritual denouncing to condemn awful things.

It must be said that Anime are, by definition, made for a Japanese public, and Japanese culture is surprisingly tolerant of extreme sexual/mindfucking stuff. When we in the West watch some genres of Anime, we are not the intended public by default.

I watched a single "Problematic Anime" back in the day, "Urotsukidoji: Legend of the Overfiend" (the uncut version, BTW). It was brutal, with "rape" being low on the scale of what could happen to the human characters. Let's say that at the end I could see the artistic intent of the creators: to very explicitly show the level of suffering that a war among demons could cause to innocent humans - using super violence&rape as a proxy. Well, I can that I watched it and... fine, it was a look at the underbelly of another culture. This was the end of my experience with hentai stuff.

It is worth mentioning that Alan Moore pulled a similar stunt in his "Neonomicon" comic book series, where a "lovecraftian tale" all of sudden becomes stunningly explicit (yup, repeated rape and stuff). The problem (a real one I mean) is that in this case I couldn't see a reason for things to become so explicit. Maybe Moore wanted to use rape as a metaphor for what happens to you when the Mythos close on you but it simply doesn't work. It is a muddled and boring story, with repeated rape scenes that have no reason to exist, characterizations that go nowhere (a female character is a "recovering nymphomaniac" - this point, obsessively made over and over, has no impact on the story) and, overall, a very strange drop in quality compared to Moore usual work.

This to say that "extreme explicitness" must always be judged in context (this has nothing to do with your willingness to experience it, of course). So, I think that in "Urotsukidoji" or "A Serbian Film" (yes, I watched that one too...) it is fully justified by the author's artistic intent, while in "Neonomicon" it is problematic and gratuitous.

I don't think, however, that TBP Mods approach this level of analysis when judging artistic expressions. Many hentais are made only to show violence and rape, to working class Japanese males, and that's it. To us Westerners they should be either unacceptable or for private use only. Maybe there is an unnatural inclination to "respect culture" on that forum...  ???
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Ratman_tf

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #788 on: May 08, 2021, 03:16:30 PM »
It's a bit weird that a board dominated by people who are so sensitive about violence to the vulnerable could so much enjoy a show which has a lot of lurid depictions of sexualised violence against women, including an instance or two of a woman being raped and then falling in love with her rapist, or coming to enjoy the experience. And of course, where someone comes to lead an army of enslaved men who have suffered amputatory genital mutilation.

I would have thought the content is... "Problematic", to say the least.
I’ve not read the GoT threads, but if the direction of the anime moderation over there is anything to go by then practically every other post in those threads ought to include a ritual denouncing of the show for all the terrible stuff it includes because just the existence of rape, slavery, etc. in a show “normalizes” those things and acts as apologia for those awful things, especially if there is no explicit ritual denouncing to condemn awful things.

It must be said that Anime are, by definition, made for a Japanese public, and Japanese culture is surprisingly tolerant of extreme sexual/mindfucking stuff. When we in the West watch some genres of Anime, we are not the intended public by default.

I watched a single "Problematic Anime" back in the day, "Urotsukidoji: Legend of the Overfiend" (the uncut version, BTW). It was brutal, with "rape" being low on the scale of what could happen to the human characters. Let's say that at the end I could see the artistic intent of the creators: to very explicitly show the level of suffering that a war among demons could cause to innocent humans - using super violence&rape as a proxy. Well, I can that I watched it and... fine, it was a look at the underbelly of another culture. This was the end of my experience with hentai stuff.

It is worth mentioning that Alan Moore pulled a similar stunt in his "Neonomicon" comic book series, where a "lovecraftian tale" all of sudden becomes stunningly explicit (yup, repeated rape and stuff). The problem (a real one I mean) is that in this case I couldn't see a reason for things to become so explicit. Maybe Moore wanted to use rape as a metaphor for what happens to you when the Mythos close on you but it simply doesn't work. It is a muddled and boring story, with repeated rape scenes that have no reason to exist, characterizations that go nowhere (a female character is a "recovering nymphomaniac" - this point, obsessively made over and over, has no impact on the story) and, overall, a very strange drop in quality compared to Moore usual work.

This to say that "extreme explicitness" must always be judged in context (this has nothing to do with your willingness to experience it, of course). So, I think that in "Urotsukidoji" or "A Serbian Film" (yes, I watched that one too...) it is fully justified by the author's artistic intent, while in "Neonomicon" it is problematic and gratuitous.

I don't think, however, that TBP Mods approach this level of analysis when judging artistic expressions. Many hentais are made only to show violence and rape, to working class Japanese males, and that's it. To us Westerners they should be either unacceptable or for private use only. Maybe there is an unnatural inclination to "respect culture" on that forum...  ???

I watched Overfiend at a little niche theater when I was living in Anchorage. It was bizzarely fun watching such an extremely graphic movie in public. Like, "Look what we're watching! Isn't this crazy?"

Anyway, I suspect that even the most woke wokester still wants to be entertained, and something like Game of Thrones was pretty popular. They come up with various excuses-

https://urge.org/its-okay-to-like-problematic-things/

The Onion even made a mock article on the topic.

https://entertainment.theonion.com/woman-takes-short-half-hour-break-from-being-feminist-t-1819576049

It's like watching a kid sneak a cookie between meals.  ;D

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Reckall

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #789 on: May 08, 2021, 03:33:48 PM »
Anyway, I suspect that even the most woke wokester still wants to be entertained, and something like Game of Thrones was pretty popular. They come up with various excuses-

https://urge.org/its-okay-to-like-problematic-things/

I was thinking "Ah, wow, so we are allowed a little vacation every then and now!" - when I stumbled into this escherian declaration:

"I like “Lord of the Rings,” even though the storyline demonizes women and certain races."

I must admit that imagining Eowyn with horns and red eyes has a certain charm...
For every idiot who denounces Ayn Rand as "intellectualism" there is an excellent DM who creates a "Bioshock" adventure.

Wntrlnd

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #790 on: May 08, 2021, 05:20:09 PM »
Anyway, I suspect that even the most woke wokester still wants to be entertained, and something like Game of Thrones was pretty popular. They come up with various excuses-

https://urge.org/its-okay-to-like-problematic-things/

I was thinking "Ah, wow, so we are allowed a little vacation every then and now!" - when I stumbled into this escherian declaration:

"I like “Lord of the Rings,” even though the storyline demonizes women and certain races."

I must admit that imagining Eowyn with horns and red eyes has a certain charm...

Yeah, I have no idea what the author is talking about.
Apart from Eowyn who is a god damn hero there's Arwen who get her own big damn hero moment in the movies that she didnt get in the books.
Galadriel? Did the author not notice that she RESISTS the lure of the ring even if she is tempted, making her no lesser person than Gandalf or Elrond.

The only one left leaves us with Lobelia Sackville-Baggins who was a caricature of a woman Tolkien knew in real life. Who then redeemed herself  in the book in (and after) the scouring of the Shire.

One could argue that there are not enough heroic women compared to the amount of men, but thats not demonizing women.

« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 05:24:28 PM by Wntrlnd »

Ratman_tf

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #791 on: May 08, 2021, 05:33:14 PM »
Anyway, I suspect that even the most woke wokester still wants to be entertained, and something like Game of Thrones was pretty popular. They come up with various excuses-

https://urge.org/its-okay-to-like-problematic-things/

I was thinking "Ah, wow, so we are allowed a little vacation every then and now!" - when I stumbled into this escherian declaration:

"I like “Lord of the Rings,” even though the storyline demonizes women and certain races."

I must admit that imagining Eowyn with horns and red eyes has a certain charm...

Yeah, I have no idea what the author is talking about.
Apart from Eowyn who is a god damn hero there's Arwen who get her own big damn hero moment in the movies that she didnt get in the books.

*Grumbles in Tolkien*

Quote
Galadriel? Did the author not notice that she RESISTS the lure of the ring even if she is tempted, making her no lesser person than Gandalf or Elrond.

The only one left leaves us with Lobelia Sackville-Baggins who was a caricature of a woman Tolkien knew in real life. Who then redeemed herself  in the book in (and after) the scouring of the Shire.

One could argue that there are not enough heroic women compared to the amount of men, but thats not demonizing women.

I took it as a careless use of the word. Maybe she thinks she does have an example of Tolkien "demonizing" women. I can't think of one.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Reckall

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #792 on: May 08, 2021, 05:45:13 PM »
Anyway, I suspect that even the most woke wokester still wants to be entertained, and something like Game of Thrones was pretty popular. They come up with various excuses-

https://urge.org/its-okay-to-like-problematic-things/

I was thinking "Ah, wow, so we are allowed a little vacation every then and now!" - when I stumbled into this escherian declaration:

"I like “Lord of the Rings,” even though the storyline demonizes women and certain races."

I must admit that imagining Eowyn with horns and red eyes has a certain charm...

Yeah, I have no idea what the author is talking about.
Apart from Eowyn who is a god damn hero there's Arwen who get her own big damn hero moment in the movies that she didnt get in the books.
Galadriel? Did the author not notice that she RESISTS the lure of the ring even if she is tempted, making her no lesser person than Gandalf or Elrond.

The only one left leaves us with Lobelia Sackville-Baggins who was a caricature of a woman Tolkien knew in real life. Who then redeemed herself  in the book in (and after) the scouring of the Shire.

One could argue that there are not enough heroic women compared to the amount of men, but thats not demonizing women.

Also, you can find strong women across all Tolkien's works. Lúthien and Galadriel herself in "The Silmarillion", for example (a lot of people forget about Galadriel's rabble rouser past ;D The "only female to stand tall" during the rebellion of the Noldor).

As always I wonder if the ideas expressed by this woman are genuinely her own or if she is parroting some "manifesto" or stuff. A couple of days ago I found another blog where the author said how "She loved The Dream Quest for the Unknown Kadath until she realised the 'problematic lack of female characters'" (I guess that 'Saving Private Ryan is another big no no'). This is becoming the mental heroin of our times...
For every idiot who denounces Ayn Rand as "intellectualism" there is an excellent DM who creates a "Bioshock" adventure.

Reckall

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #793 on: May 08, 2021, 05:56:18 PM »
I took it as a careless use of the word. Maybe she thinks she does have an example of Tolkien "demonizing" women. I can't think of one.

One of the earliest examples of wokeism (already heard before the movies) is the condemnation of Tolkien as "patriarchal" because when Eowyn can finally freely choose her future she decides to abandon armor and weapons, and to become an healer. "(screech!) And of course at the end she is relegated to the usual female jobs! (/screech!)"

That what Eowyn represents, in a nutshell, is the female battle to get free and freely choose is, obviously, missed. That Aragorn, Faramir and Eomer recognise how her inability to freely act was driving her literally mad doesn't exist in this interpretation of the book. Faramir tells her that she can be what she wants, and that's what Eowyn finally does. But, no, she had to choose a specific thing - that was the only way to be free. No, really ::)
For every idiot who denounces Ayn Rand as "intellectualism" there is an excellent DM who creates a "Bioshock" adventure.

Wntrlnd

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #794 on: May 08, 2021, 06:16:43 PM »
I took it as a careless use of the word. Maybe she thinks she does have an example of Tolkien "demonizing" women. I can't think of one.

One of the earliest examples of wokeism (already heard before the movies) is the condemnation of Tolkien as "patriarchal" because when Eowyn can finally freely choose her future she decides to abandon armor and weapons, and to become an healer. "(screech!) And of course at the end she is relegated to the usual female jobs! (/screech!)"

That what Eowyn represents, in a nutshell, is the female battle to get free and freely choose is, obviously, missed. That Aragorn, Faramir and Eomer recognise how her inability to freely act was driving her literally mad doesn't exist in this interpretation of the book. Faramir tells her that she can be what she wants, and that's what Eowyn finally does. But, no, she had to choose a specific thing - that was the only way to be free. No, really ::)

Wasn't it Jordan Peterson (who despite having multiple lectures online on how horrible Hitler was and why fascism is a bad thing is somehow consided alt-right on RPG.net) who pointed out that in the countries with the most egalitarian freedom (i.e the scandinavian countries) women still picked the usual "female jobs" by their own accord?