Quote from: This Guy on April 19, 2021, 06:23:39 PM

Quote from: wmarshal on April 19, 2021, 05:16:24 PM
The mods at Big Purple are in a cult. One can only hope they live far enough from each other that that would limit their ability to have in person struggle sessions where they start beating each other to death like the Japanese United Red Army did before they collapsed.

If the choice is that or the faction that wound up in the Middle East I know which one I prefer.

I don't really think choosing either faction went well for the participants. Most of those who went to the Middle East either got killed, or have been caught and imprisoned to long terms. The fee that remain loose live on essentially exiled from Japan always having to watch their backs. They either realize that the terror they committed wound up being fruitless despite the lives murdered, or are incapable of any kind of introspection of their lives...personally, I'd consider not being able to understand the horrors I committed to be worse than at least being humane enough to have a conscience.

Yeah but they're one airport massacre up on the ones that beat each other to death so a win in the long run. #goals

Quote from: wmarshal on April 19, 2021, 05:16:24 PM
That's probably true most of the time, but in this case (and others) Big Purple positively decided they wanted to deal with something. In cases where the mods seem to be following personal agendas and/or get found violating the rules they set up they go to ground as a community. It's too regular a response to just be apathy. They set up A-Game threads in theory to encourage users to participate in discussion, but they're really just rallies for specific approved views on the topic. They specifically say they don't want users to wear hair shirts and give denunciations of shows, but when a user does mentions a disapproves show they catch a ban even though they made no defense of the show other than it was fun trash, no apologia.

The mods at Big Purple are in a cult. One can only hope they live far enough from each other that that would limit their ability to have in person struggle sessions where they start beating each other to death like the Japanese United Red Army did before they collapsed.

Hell, they were bitching at their userbase for not reporting one thread for wrong think.

The whole concept they have of 'holdo-ing' (you're questioning this mod because they're female!) is absolutely insane. Many of the mods do not have any clear indication, in their avatar or name, that they are in fact female (I'm not even getting into trans people, that's another can o'worms).

But then, I guess TBP's fem mods are delicate crystal and can't take much in the way of criticism.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on April 20, 2021, 11:17:53 AM

Quote from: wmarshal on April 19, 2021, 05:16:24 PM
That's probably true most of the time, but in this case (and others) Big Purple positively decided they wanted to deal with something. In cases where the mods seem to be following personal agendas and/or get found violating the rules they set up they go to ground as a community. It's too regular a response to just be apathy. They set up A-Game threads in theory to encourage users to participate in discussion, but they're really just rallies for specific approved views on the topic. They specifically say they don't want users to wear hair shirts and give denunciations of shows, but when a user does mentions a disapproves show they catch a ban even though they made no defense of the show other than it was fun trash, no apologia.

The mods at Big Purple are in a cult. One can only hope they live far enough from each other that that would limit their ability to have in person struggle sessions where they start beating each other to death like the Japanese United Red Army did before they collapsed.

Hell, they were bitching at their userbase for not reporting one thread for wrong think.

The whole concept they have of 'holdo-ing' (you're questioning this mod because they're female!) is absolutely insane. Many of the mods do not have any clear indication, in their avatar or name, that they are in fact female (I'm not even getting into trans people, that's another can o'worms).

But then, I guess TBP's fem mods are delicate crystal and can't take much in the way of criticism.

CAN they handle criticism? I actually believe that they could. I refuse to believe that half or more the population can't handle criticism. However, the blanket Holdo policy gives them a weapon to be used at their discretion. Also gives male mods a means to white knight.

They already had tools/guidelines to use if anyone started calling their mods insults or engaged in visible sexism. But by making the -isms systemic in people's heads they can inflict paranoia that all people are secret sinners without even knowing it. The Holdo policy is one means by which they can declare anyone who gives any kind of pushback to a mod as a sinner, and it doesn't matter if you knew the mod was female or not. I think they did the to someone recently who claimed he was a "social justice wolf" (more likely a wolf in sheep's clothing) when the mod (a female it seems) he interacted with used the "they/them" pronouns. So "they/them" can apparently be considered gendered pronouns when it suits the mods.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on April 20, 2021, 11:17:53 AM

Quote from: wmarshal on April 19, 2021, 05:16:24 PM
That's probably true most of the time, but in this case (and others) Big Purple positively decided they wanted to deal with something. In cases where the mods seem to be following personal agendas and/or get found violating the rules they set up they go to ground as a community. It's too regular a response to just be apathy. They set up A-Game threads in theory to encourage users to participate in discussion, but they're really just rallies for specific approved views on the topic. They specifically say they don't want users to wear hair shirts and give denunciations of shows, but when a user does mentions a disapproves show they catch a ban even though they made no defense of the show other than it was fun trash, no apologia.

The mods at Big Purple are in a cult. One can only hope they live far enough from each other that that would limit their ability to have in person struggle sessions where they start beating each other to death like the Japanese United Red Army did before they collapsed.

Hell, they were bitching at their userbase for not reporting one thread for wrong think.

The whole concept they have of 'holdo-ing' (you're questioning this mod because they're female!) is absolutely insane. Many of the mods do not have any clear indication, in their avatar or name, that they are in fact female (I'm not even getting into trans people, that's another can o'worms).

But then, I guess TBP's fem mods are delicate crystal and can't take much in the way of criticism.

Greetings!

It is especially fun to challenge women. Women are often like snails--once you crack through their outer shell of defenses, you can then plunge into the soft, gooey meat within. That's when the women collapse, start crying, or calling you names, and become entirely hysterical. I've seen this happen so many times in person with debates. Women don't like being challenged, and especially not with an absolute juggernaut of history, facts, evidence, and logic. Their cheeks flush, they start breathing hard. Then they raise their voices. Then they start screaming. Then the tears come, and the sobbing. Their arguments crumble into the goo of shouting that you are a misogynist, a warmonger, and a heartless brute and tyrant. It is always so pathetically predictable. Women typically only keep a level tone and smile, and seem sweet as long as you agree with them, or submit to them, and kiss their ass.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on April 20, 2021, 02:47:44 PM
Greetings!

It is especially fun to challenge women. Women are often like snails--once you crack through their outer shell of defenses, you can then plunge into the soft, gooey meat within. That's when the women collapse, start crying, or calling you names, and become entirely hysterical. I've seen this happen so many times in person with debates. Women don't like being challenged, and especially not with an absolute juggernaut of history, facts, evidence, and logic. Their cheeks flush, they start breathing hard. Then they raise their voices. Then they start screaming. Then the tears come, and the sobbing. Their arguments crumble into the goo of shouting that you are a misogynist, a warmonger, and a heartless brute and tyrant. It is always so pathetically predictable. Women typically only keep a level tone and smile, and seem sweet as long as you agree with them, or submit to them, and kiss their ass.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Dames amirite

Quote from: SHARK on April 20, 2021, 02:47:44 PM

Greetings!

It is especially fun to challenge women. Women are often like snails--once you crack through their outer shell of defenses, you can then plunge into the soft, gooey meat within. That's when the women collapse, start crying, or calling you names, and become entirely hysterical. I've seen this happen so many times in person with debates. Women don't like being challenged, and especially not with an absolute juggernaut of history, facts, evidence, and logic. Their cheeks flush, they start breathing hard. Then they raise their voices. Then they start screaming. Then the tears come, and the sobbing. Their arguments crumble into the goo of shouting that you are a misogynist, a warmonger, and a heartless brute and tyrant. It is always so pathetically predictable. Women typically only keep a level tone and smile, and seem sweet as long as you agree with them, or submit to them, and kiss their ass.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Shark, I love you like a brother, but that was creepy as fuck.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on April 20, 2021, 04:02:01 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 20, 2021, 02:47:44 PM

Greetings!

It is especially fun to challenge women. Women are often like snails--once you crack through their outer shell of defenses, you can then plunge into the soft, gooey meat within. That's when the women collapse, start crying, or calling you names, and become entirely hysterical. I've seen this happen so many times in person with debates. Women don't like being challenged, and especially not with an absolute juggernaut of history, facts, evidence, and logic. Their cheeks flush, they start breathing hard. Then they raise their voices. Then they start screaming. Then the tears come, and the sobbing. Their arguments crumble into the goo of shouting that you are a misogynist, a warmonger, and a heartless brute and tyrant. It is always so pathetically predictable. Women typically only keep a level tone and smile, and seem sweet as long as you agree with them, or submit to them, and kiss their ass.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Shark, I love you like a brother, but that was creepy as fuck.

Greetings!

My apologies, then. It wasn't intentional.

I was recalling observing the stages that women go through when debating them when they are challenged.

Again, though, my sincere apologies.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on April 20, 2021, 04:07:07 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on April 20, 2021, 04:02:01 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 20, 2021, 02:47:44 PM

Greetings!

It is especially fun to challenge women. Women are often like snails--once you crack through their outer shell of defenses, you can then plunge into the soft, gooey meat within. That's when the women collapse, start crying, or calling you names, and become entirely hysterical. I've seen this happen so many times in person with debates. Women don't like being challenged, and especially not with an absolute juggernaut of history, facts, evidence, and logic. Their cheeks flush, they start breathing hard. Then they raise their voices. Then they start screaming. Then the tears come, and the sobbing. Their arguments crumble into the goo of shouting that you are a misogynist, a warmonger, and a heartless brute and tyrant. It is always so pathetically predictable. Women typically only keep a level tone and smile, and seem sweet as long as you agree with them, or submit to them, and kiss their ass.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Shark, I love you like a brother, but that was creepy as fuck.

Greetings!

My apologies, then. It wasn't intentional.

I was recalling observing the stages that women go through when debating them when they are challenged.

Again, though, my sincere apologies.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I grant that many women are quite capable of emotional manipulation. They kind of have to be -- play to your strengths, after all.

But there are plenty of women who seem to have a knack for psychological aikido. You'll find yourself agreeing with them and then wondering 'wait wut'. Mothers are very good at that sort of thing

Quote from: SHARK on April 20, 2021, 02:47:44 PM
It is especially fun to challenge women. Women are often like snails--once you crack through their outer shell of defenses, you can then plunge into the soft, gooey meat within. That's when the women collapse, start crying, or calling you names, and become entirely hysterical.

There's a misogynistic tone to this which doesn't surprise me, but isn't pleasant.

However, it brings up a wider point about how people approach conflicts. Rory Miller writes about this in A Writer's Guide to Violence. Basically the question is, how willing are you to do harm to achieve what you want?

• Nice - you negotiate and look for "win-win"
  
• Manipulative - you negotiate and persuade and blackmail and bribe and look for a win at the expense of others
  
• Assertive - you boldly assert your rights and needs, but not at the expense of others
  
• Aggressive - you yell and shout and dominate
  
• Assaultive - you just clock them one
  
• Murderous - you'll actually kill people

Another way to look at the first 4 levels is that there is a tonic version, and a toxic version; manipulative is the toxic version of nice, and aggressive is the toxic version of assertive.

What Miller also points out is that people of level X will be a bit lost when dealing of someone of level X+1, and simply won't understand how they can be like that. Likewise, those of X+1 will have some contempt of those of level X. And this goes on up the levels.

The nice person will be overwhelmed by the manipulative person, who will be overwhelmed by the assertive person against whom their manipulations don't work. He also points out that this is the person's default. Even if the manipulative person could organise a "win-win", they'll try to organise a "win-lose" - because that's just how they are. Likewise, the assaultive person could organise things without smacking someone, but smacking people is just what they do.

We see this in lots of good fiction like Better Call Saul - in many situations it's not that he tries the honest (nice) way first and then if that fails he tries the dishonest (manipulative) way - he just goes straight for the manipulative way, every single time.

What Shark is describing is an assertive or aggressive person debating a manipulative or nice person. I would suggest - probably aggressive, because an assertive person doesn't try to win at the expense of others, it's an aggressive person who does that - toxic assertiveness. The delight he expresses at making someone cry or call him names is the same delight the assaultive person gets from breaking bones, or the murderous person from watching someone's eyes glaze over in death.

Of course, many people (especially males) like to imagine they're a level or two higher than they are, and the keyboard makes us all brave. A man who regularly berates women until they cry has probably got himself into trouble often. So it's probably happening more in imagination than reality.

Back on topic, rpg.net mods are without doubt manipulative. And so they have to eject anyone who's assertive. Nobody minds if they bin people who are aggressive ("Youse are all cunts!" "Bye."), assaultive or murderous (hard to do online, I suppose doxxing and swatting are the only ways, but that's manipulative more than anything, I'd say). But they can't bear assertive, because they're manipulative. It's like the assaultive person coming across a murderous one. Law-Abiding Citizen comes to mind. [/list]

Greetings!

Well, I did not intend to be unpleasant or offensive. As I mentioned--leading off from the commentary about mods being challenged--and especially *Women Mods*--it reminded me of how insulting, manipulative, hysterical, and mob-pandering women could be during debates I either participated in directly, or observed closely. When you didn't agree with them or otherwise kiss their ass, soon--the tears would flow, the hysterics would be turned up, and they would resort to calling you names--instead of maintaining their composure and decorum, and engaging with your argument in a respectful and coherent manner.

I saw and experienced plenty how women often react when challenged, and I didn't find their tactics pleasant, respectful, or appropriate in any way.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on April 20, 2021, 08:56:38 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 20, 2021, 02:47:44 PM
It is especially fun to challenge women. Women are often like snails--once you crack through their outer shell of defenses, you can then plunge into the soft, gooey meat within. That's when the women collapse, start crying, or calling you names, and become entirely hysterical.

There's a misogynistic tone to this which doesn't surprise me, but isn't pleasant.

And that's the lever that RPG.net moderation are using with their Holdo rule. people generally take more offense at aggressive attitudes when they're directed towards women. So play up the reaction and justify harsher moderation to "protect the wimmin folk!"

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on April 20, 2021, 08:56:38 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 20, 2021, 02:47:44 PM
It is especially fun to challenge women. Women are often like snails--once you crack through their outer shell of defenses, you can then plunge into the soft, gooey meat within. That's when the women collapse, start crying, or calling you names, and become entirely hysterical.

There's a misogynistic tone to this which doesn't surprise me, but isn't pleasant.

Because wahmen can't ever be anything but wonderful right?

The sexism is in believing women can't be just as nasty as men can, they can because they too are human.[/list]

Greetings!

I'm also reminded of during such formal college debates--the men were typically entirely different in debates than women. I should also say *Liberal Women*--as the few Conservative women generally did their homework, and, win or lose, conducted themselves very well in a formal debate. The *Liberal Women* would begin cool, pleasant, and seemingly collected. That façade soon faded, however, once you resisted strongly. Once you then proceeded to dismantle their arguments--whether on Family Law, Abortion, Gun Rights, US Foreign Policy, State Economic Policy, whatever--the nice, pleasant façade fell by the wayside. I saw it and experienced it so often, that I noticed a kind of pattern. It's almost like a predictable recipe. Use certain words, use a certain tone, make a particularly sharp analogy--and the *Liberal Women* would rapidly become entirely swept up in emotions and hysterics. Such hysterics were great for mob-pandering, and virtue-signaling, as it were--but routinely--and predictably--lost them the debate.

It is that predictable hysteria, the toxic femininity attempting to manipulate the crowds around her--instead of debating in a respectful and professional manner--that I found a certain degree of humour in. I likened it to them being, well, like a snail. I had intended it in a humorous and instructive manner. That was my intention, in describing some of my experiences in regards to observing how many women respond when they are seriously challenged.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on April 20, 2021, 08:56:38 PM

Quote from: SHARK on April 20, 2021, 02:47:44 PM
It is especially fun to challenge women. Women are often like snails--once you crack through their outer shell of defenses, you can then plunge into the soft, gooey meat within. That's when the women collapse, start crying, or calling you names, and become entirely hysterical.

(Snip)

Back on topic, rpg.net mods are without doubt manipulative. And so they have to eject anyone who's assertive. Nobody minds if they bin people who are aggressive ("Youse are all cunts!" "Bye."), assaultive or murderous (hard to do online, I suppose doxxing and swatting are the only ways, but that's manipulative more than anything, I'd say). But they can't bear assertive, because they're manipulative. It's like the assaultive person coming across a murderous one. Law-Abiding Citizen comes to mind. [/list]

That explanation does seem to fit in regards to the mods at Big Purple. When a user asserts themselves against mod abuse pointing to the written guidance the mods themselves provided they then try to avoid the subject altogether because they don't know how to deal with it. Ultimate Chicken was assertive in questioning the ban Bcaugust54 gave out in contradiction to the rules they laid out. CrazyIvan put the conversation in hibernation because the mods don't know how to deal with being called out on their manipulation. They're probably praying Ultimate Chicken does something they can ban him for to make it easier to pretend the challenge to their manipulation never happened. At some point there will be another mod action against the anime community, and Ultimate Chicken will likely repeat his request for an explanation/clarification of the rules. He'll get frustrated by the lengthy stonewalling and he'll either "cross a line" and get permabanned, or drift away from Big Purple.