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Author Topic: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again  (Read 118855 times)

Reckall

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #570 on: April 16, 2021, 12:44:30 PM »
Recently talked to a manager at a fast food joint, he said they opened and shut back down, because nobody wants to work when they can get government money.
How much do they get? Enough to live without a job for one year?
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Stephen Tannhauser

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #571 on: April 16, 2021, 12:49:37 PM »
Recently talked to a manager at a fast food joint, he said they opened and shut back down, because nobody wants to work when they can get government money.
How much do they get? Enough to live without a job for one year?

It would be interesting to see how many of the people in this position are only finding it viable because they're still living with, or have moved back in with, family members with better status.  If you don't have to worry about rent, property taxes or maintenance fees I imagine what constitutes a "living salary" can drop quite considerably.
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Pat
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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #572 on: April 16, 2021, 12:52:46 PM »
Recently talked to a manager at a fast food joint, he said they opened and shut back down, because nobody wants to work when they can get government money.
How much do they get? Enough to live without a job for one year?
You'd have to look up the details and it varies, but the people I talked to says it's roughly the same amount as they made at these jobs pre-pandemic. So it's a choice between working for money, or not working... for the same money.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 12:57:15 PM by Pat »

Brad

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #573 on: April 16, 2021, 01:44:11 PM »
What sorts of jobs, specifically? I ask because there were a lot of restaurants around here that have opened up 100%, the usual employees. I do some side work for one of them, the owner told me that a couple servers came back even though they could sit on their ass and collect a paycheck because it nowhere near came close to what they'd actually make with good tips. I guess the lazy pothead types just need enough to smoke out and buy cheetos.
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Bunch

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #574 on: April 16, 2021, 01:52:36 PM »
Recently talked to a manager at a fast food joint, he said they opened and shut back down, because nobody wants to work when they can get government money.
How much do they get? Enough to live without a job for one year?

My understanding is the breakeven is roughly $16/hr.  If you make more than that then it makes sense to work.  Less and you make more staying home.

Pat
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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #575 on: April 16, 2021, 02:57:28 PM »
What sorts of jobs, specifically? I ask because there were a lot of restaurants around here that have opened up 100%, the usual employees. I do some side work for one of them, the owner told me that a couple servers came back even though they could sit on their ass and collect a paycheck because it nowhere near came close to what they'd actually make with good tips. I guess the lazy pothead types just need enough to smoke out and buy cheetos.
I specifically mentioned McDonald's, and the rest are similar. Not minimum wage workers because nobody in my area makes minimum wage, but close. Typically in the $10-12 range I'd guess.

I'd be curious if your friend has problems staffing the back end. The tip culture tends to excessively reward the wait staff like servers and bartenders, but not the support staff like busboys or chefs. Especially given the pent-up demand, I can see tips being huge, but the rest of the staff might find it more economical to stay home. Really depends on the wages. Middle or higher tier places probably don't feel as much of a crunch.

Brad

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #576 on: April 16, 2021, 03:36:05 PM »
I specifically mentioned McDonald's, and the rest are similar. Not minimum wage workers because nobody in my area makes minimum wage, but close. Typically in the $10-12 range I'd guess.

I'd be curious if your friend has problems staffing the back end. The tip culture tends to excessively reward the wait staff like servers and bartenders, but not the support staff like busboys or chefs. Especially given the pent-up demand, I can see tips being huge, but the rest of the staff might find it more economical to stay home. Really depends on the wages. Middle or higher tier places probably don't feel as much of a crunch.

His restaurant requires splitting amongst all the staff, and he also pays pretty well, but I can ask next time I see him. And yeah, this is a higher-end place with a super nice bar next door he also runs, always super packed, so that probably has a lot to do with it. I sure as fuck wouldn't show up to flip burgers at Wendy's if I could make the same amount watching cartoons, but then again I wouldn't be satisfied with such a minimal amount of money in the first place.
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Pat
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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #577 on: April 16, 2021, 08:11:30 PM »
His restaurant requires splitting amongst all the staff, and he also pays pretty well, but I can ask next time I see him. And yeah, this is a higher-end place with a super nice bar next door he also runs, always super packed, so that probably has a lot to do with it. I sure as fuck wouldn't show up to flip burgers at Wendy's if I could make the same amount watching cartoons, but then again I wouldn't be satisfied with such a minimal amount of money in the first place.
The tip splitting and being relatively high end really changes the dynamic. It's the low-end jobs that are affected. The government has effectively entered the market as a competitor for businesses looking to fill the bottom tier of jobs, except it's paying for doing nothing instead of work, so it's taking away all the workers and significantly raising the cost of hiring replacements. Which means businesses that rely on those jobs are hurt, and have to cut services, raise prices, or go out of business. Which in turn hurts the people who rely on those business, which are not the rich. Your friend will probably benefit, because when the bottom is squeezed, the mid and high end benefits.

Mishihari

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #578 on: April 16, 2021, 09:22:22 PM »
No, actually they didn't. Unless you consider making over 80K rich.

$80k won't even get you a middle-class lifestyle in the rural south, much less on the coasts...but for some reason people who think working fries at McDonalds is a "career" also think anyone making six figures is driving a Bentley to their helipad.

I live pretty well, certainly middle class, on that amount of money in Oklahoma. However I am far from rich, or even upper middle class. That 80K is the cut off point for stimulus now (150K for married couples)... but the notion that the stimulus is a life changer or even a month's bills for most of us is ridiculous... though it can get to useful levels if you have lots of kids or dependents. We have a guy at work here with 10 kids, so that was a 14K stimulus for him, his wife and their brood.

The stimulus combined with unemployment no questions asked and boosted unemployment and no evictions has hurt employers of lower end pay scale people.  I have a friend who need warehouse folks and he just can't find anyone who wants to work for $15 and hour. They make more than that unemployed.  I don't know how that's all going to work out longer them but it's like having a dungeon crawl and the fighter stays home.  I mean everyone limps along but it's really distorted.

That's fine, small business owners are bad for employees.

This is why we need a roll-eyes smiley.

Look, this is simple economics.  If doing nothing were better for the small business employees, then they would be doing that.  (and many in the pandemic are, as has been mentioned)  If they could have a better job they would.  Therefor, by their own choice, they they have proven that their small business job is good for them.  That's the beauty of a free economy, people are free to maximize their own outcome.  They don't need some socialist pseudo-intellectual to order their life for them or tell them that their choices are wrong.  The Soviet Union tried that and we all saw how well that went.

And I don't think you understand the nature of small business.  It includes McDonalds, franchises, yes, but many McDonald's are company owned, which of course is anything but a small business.  And many small businesses are medical practices, IT shops, accounting firms, and so on.  None of those pay minimum wages to skilled employees.


Bunch

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #579 on: April 16, 2021, 09:23:53 PM »
It's worse than just competing at the low end.  So let's say you are a company with a mix of low, mid and high income jobs.  The distortion at the low end means to get a guy to shovel a sidewalk suddenly went from $12/hour to $16+.  The guy making $18/he suddenly says "hey I'm more than $2/hr more skilled than the guy shovelling! I want $22/hr." And so on up the chain.  Suddenly you have straight inflation with no value add as everything just artificially increases by $X/hr with no productivity increases to justify it. 

Whatever you are doing right now, cash is not what you want to be holding.

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #580 on: April 16, 2021, 10:42:54 PM »
This is why we need a roll-eyes smiley.

Look, this is simple economics.  If doing nothing were better for the small business employees, then they would be doing that.  (and many in the pandemic are, as has been mentioned)  If they could have a better job they would.  Therefor, by their own choice, they they have proven that their small business job is good for them.  That's the beauty of a free economy, people are free to maximize their own outcome.  They don't need some socialist pseudo-intellectual to order their life for them or tell them that their choices are wrong.  The Soviet Union tried that and we all saw how well that went.

And I don't think you understand the nature of small business.  It includes McDonalds, franchises, yes, but many McDonald's are company owned, which of course is anything but a small business.  And many small businesses are medical practices, IT shops, accounting firms, and so on.  None of those pay minimum wages to skilled employees.

The market does not bear a roll-eyes smiley but it bears people subsidized to stay home right now, which some people here are whining about, maybe talk to them about how that is the free market right now and not "sucking at government teat" when those lips should be reserved for Daddy Boss-Man.

And there is a multiplicity of small business types, much to think about, so it's a good thing I said lower average wages, which is true, and every wage, which is not.
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moonsweeper

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #581 on: April 16, 2021, 11:05:52 PM »
This is why we need a roll-eyes smiley.

Look, this is simple economics.  If doing nothing were better for the small business employees, then they would be doing that.  (and many in the pandemic are, as has been mentioned)  If they could have a better job they would.  Therefor, by their own choice, they they have proven that their small business job is good for them.  That's the beauty of a free economy, people are free to maximize their own outcome.  They don't need some socialist pseudo-intellectual to order their life for them or tell them that their choices are wrong.  The Soviet Union tried that and we all saw how well that went.

And I don't think you understand the nature of small business.  It includes McDonalds, franchises, yes, but many McDonald's are company owned, which of course is anything but a small business.  And many small businesses are medical practices, IT shops, accounting firms, and so on.  None of those pay minimum wages to skilled employees.

The market does not bear a roll-eyes smiley but it bears people subsidized to stay home right now, which some people here are whining about, maybe talk to them about how that is the free market right now and not "sucking at government teat" when those lips should be reserved for Daddy Boss-Man.

And there is a multiplicity of small business types, much to think about, so it's a good thing I said lower average wages, which is true, and every wage, which is not.

People keep using this phrase...and I really don't think they know what it actually means.
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Bunch

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #582 on: April 16, 2021, 11:36:42 PM »
This is why we need a roll-eyes smiley.

Look, this is simple economics.  If doing nothing were better for the small business employees, then they would be doing that.  (and many in the pandemic are, as has been mentioned)  If they could have a better job they would.  Therefor, by their own choice, they they have proven that their small business job is good for them.  That's the beauty of a free economy, people are free to maximize their own outcome.  They don't need some socialist pseudo-intellectual to order their life for them or tell them that their choices are wrong.  The Soviet Union tried that and we all saw how well that went.

And I don't think you understand the nature of small business.  It includes McDonalds, franchises, yes, but many McDonald's are company owned, which of course is anything but a small business.  And many small businesses are medical practices, IT shops, accounting firms, and so on.  None of those pay minimum wages to skilled employees.

The market does not bear a roll-eyes smiley but it bears people subsidized to stay home right now, which some people here are whining about, maybe talk to them about how that is the free market right now and not "sucking at government teat" when those lips should be reserved for Daddy Boss-Man.

And there is a multiplicity of small business types, much to think about, so it's a good thing I said lower average wages, which is true, and every wage, which is not.

Intervention by the Federal Government on wages for no work is almost literally the opposite of a free market.  Now the US has almost never been a truly free market because we have regulations and minimum wages, tariffs etc but propping up the entire bottom of the labor market with essential a free years worth of money for doing nothing is in no way an example of the free market, cannot last because we can't keep going into debt to provide it and is doing damage.

Ratman_tf

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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #583 on: April 16, 2021, 11:44:37 PM »
Fuck it, man. If the gobmint is dumb enough to destroy the economy, I'm just going to make sure I'm took care of. I'll take their free money until the system collapses.
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Re: The RPG.Net SJW ban nazis are at it again
« Reply #584 on: April 16, 2021, 11:46:55 PM »
This is why we need a roll-eyes smiley.

Look, this is simple economics.  If doing nothing were better for the small business employees, then they would be doing that.  (and many in the pandemic are, as has been mentioned)  If they could have a better job they would.  Therefor, by their own choice, they they have proven that their small business job is good for them.  That's the beauty of a free economy, people are free to maximize their own outcome.  They don't need some socialist pseudo-intellectual to order their life for them or tell them that their choices are wrong.  The Soviet Union tried that and we all saw how well that went.

And I don't think you understand the nature of small business.  It includes McDonalds, franchises, yes, but many McDonald's are company owned, which of course is anything but a small business.  And many small businesses are medical practices, IT shops, accounting firms, and so on.  None of those pay minimum wages to skilled employees.

The market does not bear a roll-eyes smiley but it bears people subsidized to stay home right now, which some people here are whining about, maybe talk to them about how that is the free market right now and not "sucking at government teat" when those lips should be reserved for Daddy Boss-Man.

And there is a multiplicity of small business types, much to think about, so it's a good thing I said lower average wages, which is true, and every wage, which is not.

Intervention by the Federal Government on wages for no work is almost literally the opposite of a free market.  Now the US has almost never been a truly free market because we have regulations and minimum wages, tariffs etc but propping up the entire bottom of the labor market with essential a free years worth of money for doing nothing is in no way an example of the free market, cannot last because we can't keep going into debt to provide it and is doing damage.
If you just say free market enough when things go wrong people will eventually associate everything bad with the free market and hey words like socialism might not look so bad anymore.