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Author Topic: "The Population of Krynn has ALWAYS Been Mostly Tabaxi..."  (Read 3123 times)

Shasarak

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Re: "The Population of Krynn has ALWAYS Been Mostly Tabaxi..."
« Reply #60 on: August 01, 2021, 08:02:09 PM »
If you sell 10 of A and 5 of B then which one would you choose to feature?

I feel that it would be hard not to sell 10 of A before 5 or B when B doesn’t exist as an option until well after A has been released and supplemented numerous times. If at all, in the case of the current edition. They can’t sell more of Dragonlance or Planescape or Spelljammer or Dark Sun if they don’t release them. Sure, FR might have sold more in some previous editions of the game (mainly because of its more frequent released supplement books), but we won’t know which setting would sell more than FR in this edition until it’s out. And even then, the only thing we might have to measure that by is Amazon rankings, because I’m sure they won’t release a numeric sales comparison between the existing settings and the “new-old” settings they claim to be releasing.

Greyhawk was released in 1980
Dragonlance was released in 1984
Forgotten Realms was released in 1987

2nd Edition was released in 1989

So it seems like it is the opposite of what you claim, 2e deciding to go with the "new" hotness rather then the older established campaign settings.


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I feel like any decently-done DL setting book will probably blow the doors off of all of the current setting specific books. But then FR is kinda in just about everything WotC have released to date, so do we count all of those books in FR’s corner too then? Or just SCAG? I’m pretty certain DL could outsell that.

I have not seen any decently done setting books from WotC for so long that I dont believe they have it in them.
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Armchair Gamer

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Re: "The Population of Krynn has ALWAYS Been Mostly Tabaxi..."
« Reply #61 on: August 01, 2021, 10:22:47 PM »
TSR/WotC has made no less than five major attempts at pushing Dragonlance gaming, and each attempt except the last sputtered out—and that last was outsourced to a third party for everything after the core setting. It’s been successful in novels, but the game audience just isn’t there.

strcondex18cha3

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Re: "The Population of Krynn has ALWAYS Been Mostly Tabaxi..."
« Reply #62 on: August 02, 2021, 05:17:09 AM »
Most things sputter out and Dragonlance wasn't Dragonlance anymore anyhow.
In fact, Dragonlance holds the dubious honor of being the most story-raped RPG setting, with multiple game paradigm shifting events changing the flavour of what it actually meant to play a DL campaign significantly. While the Realms endured this, too, they weren't as deeply affected from a rules and background perspective.

This is actually an interesting topic and deserves some further analysis:
Most designers would agree, to keep things fresh, you gotta introduce some change from time to time. While I don't personally agree and while there's franchises who are just fine without it (for instance Lord o.t. Rings), within the particular strategy of TSR/WOTC it made some sense.
Dragonlance had many loyal fans, attested by the absurd amount of third rate novels being produced. So how would you tap into their wallets?
Since FR and later Eberron was the main supplement focus, DL became an experimental platform. The bizarre shakeups were nostalgically connected by introducing second or third generation family of the Heroes of the Lance who suffered through these idiotic setting changes and twists. Surely the suckers fans could buy at least a couple of additional supplements, which then didn't appear or were very subpar to begin with. But then the nostalgic value gets diminished through shamelessly pimping out the abused setting. Oh wait, we'll just do another shakeup, this time we'll get it right!

This was all before the era of the brazen reboot. Now the optimal solution to the milking problem of nostalgic hearts is better understood. And if done correctly, it also introduces new fans!

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The problem with Krynn is that it really has one epic story to tell and its already been told.
Thats not to say there are not still stories that you can tell in Krynn but none of them is going to be as epic as the War of the Lance.

There is something to this and I've met countless people telling me the exact same thing over the gaming table. TSR/WOTC/HASBRO probably was aware of the sentiment.
It's simply a fuckup by the designers, because the campaign source material (both the '87 and '92 books, which were ok but certainly not great) did a piss-poor job of introducing an exciting post war situation. In fact, why even end post-war?
The real gem was the Taladas box from 89. (btw this is a big recommendation to check it out. If you're in need for a cool standard-ish setting that supports lots of playstyles, this is it!) And if the designers had any sense, they would have simply switched continents and continue the war. But we don't have guys who understand both game design, story design and sales.

I don't know how this reboot will take place. There's multiple angles from which to approach it and there worst would be a straight rewrite, complete with a more inclusive cast and stronker womb-men.
Reboot v2 would entail a retelling with different twists. The story would branch off immediately and permanently kill off a character or two to make it clear.
The best thing would be a parallel story of a new group losely in contact with the Lance Heroes (maybe underlings), focusing on what came after the war and fleshing out a chessboard of interesting, war torn regions. The whole religious angle of gods coming in and heading off away again and again should be dropped like the foul smelling potato it always was.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 12:28:02 PM by strcondex18cha3 »

FingerRod

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Re: "The Population of Krynn has ALWAYS Been Mostly Tabaxi..."
« Reply #63 on: August 02, 2021, 08:29:30 AM »
The Kinslayer and Dwarfgate Wars are two interesting time periods for a campaign. And there are others.

The overall theme of evil turning upon itself may have had a bigger impact than the heroes. It has been a minute, but I have run plenty of DL campaigns that were not tied to the Heroes of the Lance.

Shasarak

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Re: "The Population of Krynn has ALWAYS Been Mostly Tabaxi..."
« Reply #64 on: August 02, 2021, 05:31:32 PM »
Reboot v2 would entail a retelling with different twists. The story would branch off immediately and permanently kill off a character or two to make it clear.

Good, maybe Sturm can make it though the whole way this time.

Kill off Flint and Tasslehoff, no one likes that comedy duo.
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Ratman_tf

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Re: "The Population of Krynn has ALWAYS Been Mostly Tabaxi..."
« Reply #65 on: August 02, 2021, 08:18:03 PM »
Reboot v2 would entail a retelling with different twists. The story would branch off immediately and permanently kill off a character or two to make it clear.

Good, maybe Sturm can make it though the whole way this time.

Kill off Flint and Tasslehoff, no one likes that comedy duo.

Kill off all the main characters and replace them with Hip Teens.

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Spinachcat

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Re: "The Population of Krynn has ALWAYS Been Mostly Tabaxi..."
« Reply #66 on: August 03, 2021, 12:51:37 AM »
I wouldn't let 2021 WotC within a country mile of anything I actually cared about.

If "country mile" is the new term for "light year", I'm good with that distance.

tenbones

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Re: "The Population of Krynn has ALWAYS Been Mostly Tabaxi..."
« Reply #67 on: August 03, 2021, 02:11:31 AM »
ALL of my players had read the Dragonlance novels several times before 2e ever dropped. We all loved them up to War of the Twins.

None of them wanted to play in Dragonlance - though we'd run the modules to death. We loves the elements of setting, but frankly, I didn't feel the system captured what we envisioned from the books.

The *absolute* best use I ever got out of Dragonlance was mining the holy fuck out of it for Spelljammer. Knights of Solamnia establishing a keep on the Rock of Bral? Fuck yeah. Minotaur from the League PC, slugging it out in fighting pits among the stars? Kender in Spaaaace?

Plus it allowed me to distance my feelings from the abomination they turned DL into after nuking Tasslehoff.

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: "The Population of Krynn has ALWAYS Been Mostly Tabaxi..."
« Reply #68 on: August 04, 2021, 04:24:23 PM »
Does an alternate universe of the prior work count as new or does that set off your nerd autism too?

If you see any disagreement to your ideas as just misplaced nitpicking (even though I stated im not a hyper stickler for canon), and start off the conversation that I am a fool for disagreeing with you, then I don't think it really makes sense for me to continue the conversation with me since you see me in such a low light.

I'm sorry. I'm frustrated.

I understand what you guys mean by franchises being ruined. I keep seeing that all the time.

I'm something of a stickler for continuity. I hate retcons, particularly because most of the time they're terrible (the Blizzard IPs are my go-to example), so I have a preference for reboots. But only if done well.

For example, the 2002 He-Man reboot was good. It respected its predecessors. Many of the Transformers cartoons (which are all reboots) are great.

Transformers is a perfect case study for how to experiment with reboots. https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Continuity

HappyDaze

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Re: "The Population of Krynn has ALWAYS Been Mostly Tabaxi..."
« Reply #69 on: August 04, 2021, 04:48:40 PM »
Does an alternate universe of the prior work count as new or does that set off your nerd autism too?

If you see any disagreement to your ideas as just misplaced nitpicking (even though I stated im not a hyper stickler for canon), and start off the conversation that I am a fool for disagreeing with you, then I don't think it really makes sense for me to continue the conversation with me since you see me in such a low light.

I'm sorry. I'm frustrated.

I understand what you guys mean by franchises being ruined. I keep seeing that all the time.

I'm something of a stickler for continuity. I hate retcons, particularly because most of the time they're terrible (the Blizzard IPs are my go-to example), so I have a preference for reboots. But only if done well.

For example, the 2002 He-Man reboot was good. It respected its predecessors. Many of the Transformers cartoons (which are all reboots) are great.

Transformers is a perfect case study for how to experiment with reboots. https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Continuity
Remember all the times the Bible got reconned? Good times.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: "The Population of Krynn has ALWAYS Been Mostly Tabaxi..."
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2021, 08:45:14 PM »
I'm sorry. I'm frustrated.

I understand what you guys mean by franchises being ruined. I keep seeing that all the time.

Err...Apology accepted, but why the 180? This is pretty radically different from the 'authors should do whatever with pre-existing materials' angle.