The playtest is dead... long live the playtest!

RPGPundit · August 30, 2013, 02:29:10 PM

Quote from: Bill;686407All I know is that among the gamers I interact with, Pathfinder and 4E dnd are by far the dominant games represented.

Obviously that is not a reliable scientific analysis.

And in a year or so, it will almost certainly be "Pathfinder and D&D Next" that the majority of gamers will be playing if not just D&D Next. All your statement demonstrates is that 4e is the latest published edition; and the fact that you put Pathfinder in with it (and first!) is proof of just how bad a fuckup 4e was.

Bill · August 30, 2013, 02:42:52 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;687104And in a year or so, it will almost certainly be "Pathfinder and D&D Next" that the majority of gamers will be playing if not just D&D Next. All your statement demonstrates is that 4e is the latest published edition; and the fact that you put Pathfinder in with it (and first!) is proof of just how bad a fuckup 4e was.

I just wish the demograpic was reversed,with the older versions in the lead.

Can't take away Paizo's success though.

I was, for a while, a big pathfinder fan, I just slowly came to realize it was not a good fit for me as a gm.

RPGPundit · September 01, 2013, 01:20:10 AM

No one can deny that Paizo was very clever; half for the system they created and half for the marketing angle they chose.

RPGPundit

Benoist · September 01, 2013, 12:07:10 PM

I'd be extremely surprised if Pathfinder players just left ship for Next "because D&D sticker on the cover". That thinking has already been proven to be false with 4e itself. This is a losing mentality.

JonWake · September 01, 2013, 01:13:50 PM

Quote from: Benoist;687452I'd be extremely surprised if Pathfinder players just left ship for Next "because D&D sticker on the cover". That thinking has already been proven to be false with 4e itself. This is a losing mentality.

Well the problem was that 4e sucked hard enough that people left that for Pathfinder. All of my 5e playtesters who are have any experience are former Pathfinder players. The complexity wore on them after ten years, and they are liking the lighter system.

But we really won't know how things will shake out for at least a couple years. It could be that D&D players just aren't as picky as the past three years make them out to be.

Benoist · September 01, 2013, 01:34:49 PM

Yup. What will actually matter is whether the game with the D&D sticker on it happens to be fun to play on its own merits for a sizable share of the market that satisfies Wizbro's bottom line. That's it.

thecasualoblivion · September 01, 2013, 01:54:23 PM

Quote from: Benoist;687474Yup. What will actually matter is whether the game with the D&D sticker on it happens to be fun to play on its own merits for a sizable share of the market that satisfies Wizbro's bottom line. That's it.

I think over the last few years people have gotten used to the concept of playing older editions or alternate systems/clones to the point where the "D&D" name isn't something that can be taken for granted anymore. 5E's success will be determined by its ability to deliver something better than what people already have. I don't know that the "D&D" name slapped onto something 'meh' or something you have to jump through a series of hoops to get it to where you want is going to be enough.

Bedrockbrendan · September 01, 2013, 02:13:40 PM

Quote from: Benoist;687452I'd be extremely surprised if Pathfinder players just left ship for Next "because D&D sticker on the cover". That thinking has already been proven to be false with 4e itself. This is a losing mentality.

I think what it will give them is a shot at grabbing folks. People playing pathfinder will probably take a look at the game because it has D&D on the cover. Whether that translates into book sales and play at the table, depends on whether the content matches their needs (and I honestly have no idea if it will or will not).

What is clear to me is, at the moment, people do by and large, want to play some form of D&D. But that means everything from pathfinder and 4E to retroclones or prior editions. So it is a big different from the 90s, when there were real alternatives to D&D being played. Yes, people do play other games, and I usually prefer other games. But I can't think of a game that rivals D&D, the way Vampire did.

Haffrung · September 01, 2013, 05:02:35 PM

Quote from: Benoist;687452I'd be extremely surprised if Pathfinder players just left ship for Next "because D&D sticker on the cover". That thinking has already been proven to be false with 4e itself. This is a losing mentality.

Most people who play a particular iteration of D&D don't think it's perfect (despite the postures of edition warriors). No doubt there's a fair chunk of the Pathfinder player base who might prefer something a little lighter.

Sure, 4E proves people won't play a game just because it has D&D in the name. But it doesn't prove the name has no value. 150,000 downloads of the playtest rules means shitloads of people are at least curious about Next. It's reasonable to expect a lot of those are Pathfinder players.

gamerGoyf · September 01, 2013, 05:29:31 PM

Quote from: Haffrung;687557Most people who play a particular iteration of D&D don't think it's perfect (despite the postures of edition warriors). No doubt there's a fair chunk of the Pathfinder player base who might prefer something a little lighter.

Sure, 4E proves people won't play a game just because it has D&D in the name. But it doesn't prove the name has no value. 150,000 downloads of the playtest rules means shitloads of people are at least curious about Next. It's reasonable to expect a lot of those are Pathfinder players.

Peoples curiosity may not translate into any cash, people thought 4e was going to crush the competition too ya know ;3

Let's get real about the playtest for a second. Mearls is a master ruseman, the playtest was just an excuse for him to keep cashing paychecks for a little while longer before he gets fired like every other "head of D&D" before him ^_^

jeff37923 · September 01, 2013, 05:42:17 PM

Quote from: gamerGoyf;687563Let's get real about the playtest for a second. Mearls is a master ruseman, the playtest was just an excuse for him to keep cashing paychecks for a little while longer before he gets fired like every other "head of D&D" before him ^_^

Probably more true than anybody there wants to admit.

ggroy · September 01, 2013, 05:49:16 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;687571Probably more true than anybody there wants to admit.

prolonging the inevitable :banghead:

Wonder if anybody else will hire Mearls for rpg design/development work, after WotC fires him.

thecasualoblivion · September 01, 2013, 05:52:14 PM

Quote from: Haffrung;687557Most people who play a particular iteration of D&D don't think it's perfect (despite the postures of edition warriors). No doubt there's a fair chunk of the Pathfinder player base who might prefer something a little lighter.

Sure, 4E proves people won't play a game just because it has D&D in the name. But it doesn't prove the name has no value. 150,000 downloads of the playtest rules means shitloads of people are at least curious about Next. It's reasonable to expect a lot of those are Pathfinder players.

The name may have value, but what if people decide that name applies to 1E-4E, or that Pathfinder various retroclones, or even something like 13th Age is for all intents and purposes D&D. I think we've passed the point where D&DNext or WotC for that matter can take the name for granted.

Bill · September 02, 2013, 09:10:28 AM

Quote from: Benoist;687452I'd be extremely surprised if Pathfinder players just left ship for Next "because D&D sticker on the cover". That thinking has already been proven to be false with 4e itself. This is a losing mentality.

I tend to agree with a qualifier.

People that play pathfinder for the builds and crunch might try 5e and then go back to pathfinder.

What I don't have a clue about, is what percentage of pathfinder fans love it for the crunch or for other reasons.