The Other Sandbox Gaming Thread

[Libertad]

This isn't so much a revival of the "Sandbox Players are Libertarians!" thread (which became more about politics as it went on), so much as a discussion and advice-seeking section for this play style.

So, sandbox gaming.  I've played once in such a game (Kingmaker adventure path for Pathfinder), and it was fun before the campaign lost steam.  I've never DMed such a game.

I do own Red Tide and Spears of the Dawn, two very cool-looking settings based around this play style.

So, recommended tips for this style of play?  Blogs/articles addressing the issue?

What existing settings would say work best for sandbox gaming?

[Bobloblah]

So, sandbox gaming.  I've played once in such a game (Kingmaker adventure path for Pathfinder), and it was fun before the campaign lost steam.  I've never DMed such a game.

In my opinion the Kingmaker adventure path was not such a great representation of the playstyle. Mainly that's because a lot of what normally goes on in a sandbox (and what the DM is supposed to be doing) isn't really spelled out by either Kingmaker or the Gamemastery Guide.

So, recommended tips for this style of play?  Blogs/articles addressing the issue?

I'd wholeheartedly recommend estar's excellent series of blog posts on the topic which can be found here.

What existing settings would say work best for sandbox gaming?

Wilderlands of High Fantasy is a D20 Sandbox product (and arguably where the term re-entered common RPG parlance from) that is excellent and as compatible with Pathfinder as any D20 material. It's out of print, however, and tends to be pricey. I believe it also available in .pdf, though.

If you're looking for stuff compatible with older versions of the game (i.e. retroclones) you could try Frog God Games' Hexcrawl Chronicles. I do not know how good they are, but I think the first one was reasonably well-reviewed by bryce0lynch (a member here) on his tenfootpole site.

[Mistwell]

We could used a Benoist epically thorough "how to create and play a sandbox style game" series of posts, similar to his megadungeon series of posts.

[Black Vulmea]

Try this thread.

[Benoist]

We could used a Benoist epically thorough "how to create and play a sandbox style game" series of posts, similar to his megadungeon series of posts.

I'm going to get into it in the megadungeon thread (link in my sig) in fact, when I move on from the sample bandit level and go into the hex map of the valley around the dungeon and the sample settlement likely to serve as the PCs home base.

[Shawn Driscoll]

So, recommended tips for this style of play?  Blogs/articles addressing the issue?

"Gamemastering" by Brian Jamison

[Mistwell]

Try this thread.

That was indeed an awesome set of articles you wrote on the topic.  I swear you and Benoist would make excellent co-authors on an "Old School TRPG'ing Done Right" book.

[Benoist]

That was indeed an awesome set of articles you wrote on the topic.  I swear you and Benoist would make excellent co-authors on an "Old School TRPG'ing Done Right" book.

I would be open to such an endeavour, because I know BV privately and know we could do great things together. But if we did such a thing, it wouldn't be "old school done right" because in reality, there is no such thing. Instead, it would be "Mike and Ben's way to make a sandbox rock" and as such, I think it could be awesome.

[Black Vulmea]

That was indeed an awesome set of articles you wrote on the topic.

Thank you - I really appreciate that.

I swear you and Benoist would make excellent co-authors on an "Old School TRPG'ing Done Right" book.

The occasional blog post is about as close to being an author as I care to get.

[silva]

Apocalypse World is the rpg with better advice and tools for sandbox gaming Ive seen. The fact that the system is also designed with this game style in mind also helps, if you opt to use it.

Anyway, we had some great threads around here full of advice for this game style. Just use your google-fu.

[RPGPundit]

Apocalypse World is the rpg with better advice and tools for sandbox gaming Ive seen. The fact that the system is also designed with this game style in mind also helps, if you opt to use it.

Ok, I'll bite: prove that you're not just blatantly trolling here by naming a storygame when he asks for sandbox play. That's not a request, by the way.

[silva]

Pundie, when I get at home (Im at work right now), I ll write some passages from the book for you.

[Black Vulmea]

Ok, I'll bite: prove that you're not just blatantly trolling here by naming a storygame when he asks for sandbox play. That's not a request, by the way.

[StormBringer]

I am not the expert Black Vulmea and the others are on this topic, but my best advice would be to set up a body of information as close to a database as possible.  If you have any skills in that regard whatsoever, set up a database.  Not everything needs to be detailed down to the number of fleas present on a particular goblin's back, but each hex should have the broad strokes of what is present and what is available for exploring.  Towns should have the majority of shops the players would reasonably want to visit detailed, but the inventory should be partially randomized.  The owners of those shops should also have moderately detailed write-ups.  Set up several dozen NPCs beforehand, so when the 'bandit' encounter comes up, you have a leader and some lieutenants.  The pilgrims on the road to the next city will have a Cleric with a spell list, and maybe a Fighter or two hidden in the ranks.  

If you don't want to immediately place the haunted Magic-User's tower, at least have it ready with an appropriate Magic-User (lich?) and apprentice NPCs so a random encounter for a hex is ready.  Same with dungeons; if you have a good set of geomorphs, it's probably not as critical, but stocking them on the fly is still a moderately advanced skill.

Much of this can be mitigated with good random tables.  I suggest seeking out Sacrificial Lamb's, the man has an instinct for them.  However, those will sometimes also contain encounters that may need some set up ahead of time, so read them carefully and have the opponents ready to go.

I guess the tl;dr version is: Be prepared.  Preparation, preparation, preparation.  The very broad strokes need to be in place, because having to take session time out to dice up some ruined castle or isolated village will be very frustrating for everyone at the table.

[silva]

Ok, I'll bite: prove that you're not just blatantly trolling here by naming a storygame when he asks for sandbox play. That's not a request, by the way.

Before going on, Ill point you out to this post, that probrably explains the game sandbox agenda better than me.


Now, opening the book, the first line on the GM´s chapter is this:

"There are a million ways to GM games. Apocalypse World calls for one way in particular. Follow these as rules. The whole rest of the game is built upon this:

.
.
- Play to find out what happens."


And then..


"Its not your agenda to make the players lose, or punish them, or to get them through your pre-planned storyline (DO NOT pre-plan a storyline, and Im not fucking around)... go after any of those and... Apocalypse World will look contrived, and you will not be playing to see what happens."


Emphasis mine. The whole game flows from this core - from the actual resolution mechanics to the GMing advice to the structuring of campaigns to the tools to make those campaign hapenning.

The whole thing would be too big to write here (despite being a light-complexity game), but suffice to say that there are a handfull of explicit methods and tools for accomplishing this agenda, from the very "first session" concept, where the GM is forbidden to set up anything and just "follow the characters with their lives" while secretly taking note of things the chars interact with, show interest, etc. The concept of "Fronts" which consist in the groups and factions the characters interacted with in the first session and now (with the session done) the GM must formalize in a relationship map (full with lots of given names and resources to help the GM to improvise if necessary), to give character and colour to those factions. The little "doom-clocks" for tracking the different factions plots advancing (be in the frontstage or in the background), etc, etc, etc.

Here take a look at one of the tools..



This sandbox, player-driven agenda is even manifested in the game very resolution mechanics ( called "moves" here ), which manage to put the outomce of situations strongly in the very hands of the players. Really, there are a lot more stuff than that (I didnt even cite the GM moves, which are really advices turned to formal rules ), but I think its enouch to prove my point.

The shit not only has great advice for sandbox games - it was designed from the ground-up to do exclusively and specfically this. I recommend it to anyone interested in sandnbox games.

(sorry if my my enthusiasm for the game is showing, Im really big fan of it )