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The most over-rated figures in the "gaming industry"

Started by RPGPundit, September 11, 2006, 04:51:06 PM

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brettmb2

Quote from: BalbinusThat said, Vincent is definitely not overrated.
Now that I totally disagree with.
Brett Bernstein
Precis Intermedia

Balbinus

Quote from: pigames.netNow that I totally disagree with.

Fair enough.

I think your stuff is underrated, particularly games like Vice Squad.  Hopefully there we can reach better agreement.

brettmb2

Quote from: BalbinusFair enough.

I think your stuff is underrated, particularly games like Vice Squad.  Hopefully there we can reach better agreement.
This is just one of those screwy treads ;)
Brett Bernstein
Precis Intermedia

Mr. Analytical

Quote from: BalbinusWell, except I suppose Vincent Baker, I loved Kill Puppies for Satan and I thought Dogs was a great game even if not to my taste, but I understand his new game is called Balbinus Doesn't Deserve to Live! which seems a tad unnecessary.

  Ya what?

  Lumpley's the kind of bible basher I can cope with essentially.  Puppies and Dogs both had strong christian messages to them but those messages were portrayed in a quite delicate and intelligent fashion.  The only piece of christian lecturing I can think of that competes with his stuff is something like The Exorcist.

  Having said that, in the case of Dogs it was enough to make me lose interest and Puppies didn't really work for me because my principles and demarcation between games and reality are quite clear to me so at no point would I slip into semi-depressed introversion as is clearly intended.  I mean, once you've playerd a couple of Kult games in which you were part of a paedophile ring of demon worshippers who eventually got caught and raped to death in prison, putting hamsters in a blender just doesn't really do it for you.

Balbinus

It's surprising how few people realise that KPFS is essentially a game with a strong Christian message.

I think they're good designs, that doesn't make me want to play them.  I think current DnD is for various reasons a brilliant design, but I would need some pitching to play it and there is no way in hell I would ever run it.

Essentially, what I think is good and what I want to play are not always the same thing.

None of them are a patch on Space 1889 though, but then what is?

Andy K

Quote from: pigames.netSeriously, I'd really like to know where does all this White Wolf hatred come from?
I never had any hate on for Storyteller/WW. Sure, they were pretentious at times in the writing, but it was fun in the mindset while you were reading it.  A game aimed at Goths that was filled with quotes from goth/alternative music, and the guidance sections dripped with pretension? It rocked, seriously. I did find the game incongruent with what it was "supposed to be about" (see below), but I didn't have "hate" for it. As a consumer, I just ignored it and yet focused on the lines I found interesting (Like MAGE or WRAITH, which DID support "what the game was supposed to be about").

Plus, it brought lots of hot goth girls into gaming.

I wasn't hung up on the whole "system broke" thing (like a machine gun having an equal chance of killing you as blowing up in the weilder's face because of the crit/fumble system), but I see that nWod fixes a lot of that.

Quote from: gleichmanThe whole failed promise of Story however only exists in the minds of Forgies and near-Forgies- real gamers understood what that was all about.
I wasn't the only one that was put off by the fact that the game's text, the "what you're supposed to do with this game", was all "explore the vampire/human nature", "seek redemption or ditch humanity altogether", etc, but all the game play examples and rules were Gunfights and Vampire Control Politics. Then the supplement treadmill started, and the Vampire Control Politics became the game. In the second edition, IIRC, the whole "Golconda" stuff (basically attempting to become human again, or achieving this zen-like balance between the worlds) became "A Lie", and the game focused even more on Gunfights (now against Werewolves, Technocracy and Antitribu!) and even more vampire control politics. And yet the whole "explore vampire/human nature; seek redemption or ditch humanity" stuff was still paid lip service to even though it totally didn't support it.

It would be like seeing an advertisement in the back of Dungeon magazine for a new "Immortals Box Set" (ala D&D) where it says that it's about what happens when Humans become Immortal. You buy it, expecting all D&D style fantasy adventure at a high scale. It even says that's what the game is about on the back blurb and the Introduction. Then you flip to page Two and the book is actually NOBILIS. In fact, it's NOBILIS without even rules for combat... And yet, all the pages of game fiction contained in this fictional NOBILIS-hybrid is about mighty godlings fighting each other with weapons and magic.

Folks who love the whole tactical gunfight and Vampire social control politics stuff (and there were a lot of people who liked it, hence the game's popularity) loved Vampire. Folks who loved the ideas written on the back cover of the rulebook, and Introduction/"What is this Game About" chapter and Game Fiction of the rulebook, were put off by the realization that the game contained none of those things on the back cover or intruduction. At least MAGE and WRAITH (and perhaps WEREWOLF, but I wasn't as familiar with that game) were a hell of a lot closer in the game rules and examples as to what was described on the cover of the book and the Introductory text.

-Andy

Balbinus

You know guys, threads about whether or not Vampire delivers as it promises for some reason never seem to go well.  Not sure why, but I'd suggest we all back away slowly without making any sudden movements and go back to arguing about historical games or something.

gleichman

Quote from: Andy KI wasn't the only one that was put off by the fact that the game's text, the "what you're supposed to do with this game", was all "explore the vampire/human nature", "seek redemption or ditch humanity altogether", etc, but all the game play examples and rules were Gunfights and Vampire Control Politics.

That's because you're in with the Forgies Andy :)

Seriously, if you needed rules to explore the vampire/human nature thing- you had already missed the boat on what role-playing games of the era were and allowed in the first place. That was pure Meta-game layer design common to the period.

Some times you just got to... role-play.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

brettmb2

Quote from: gleichmanSome times you just got to... role-play.
Couldn't have said that better myself!
Brett Bernstein
Precis Intermedia