Honestly, you've made so many mistakes it's becoming clear you don't really know what you're talking about. Why are you pouring so much time and effort into a game you don't even play? You just randomly decided to theorycraft about a design decision you don't like, is that it? Oh well.
I have to give credit for just admitting you're wrong though. "I don't like the design" is pretty much the truth of the matter.
He's not had much sleep for a long time. Guess this is his way of coping.
Admittedly, yes....I am very tired and sleep-deprived, so I made some mistakes. However, I'm discussing 5e, because it looks like nobody truly critiques this stuff. Every edition of D&D has received ruthless examination and critique, except this one. So I'm trying to deconstruct the system, to see what's right or what's wrong......and take things to their logical conclusions.
And despite my mistakes,
I'm still right about the main issues of the crafting system. Posters on this thread could only poke holes on points that weren't even integral to my central arguments. If most buyers refuse to pay you for your labor, then that creates a
DISINCENTIVE for crafting magic items. If the only people who might be willing to pay you a little bit for your labor are all "shady" criminal underworld types, then these game mechanics demonstrate a situation that is the opposite of human nature. Ethical people are more likely to pay you for your labor. Unethical "shady" criminal underworld people are
less likely to pay you for your labor. Additionally,
there is no incentive for six 11th-level Wizards to spend 8 hours a day in a room, every day.....for 11 months, just to craft a
Frost Brand sword that is barely any more combat efficient than a Sword +1. :cool:
A brass
Horn of Valhalla is objectively better than a silver
Horn of Valhalla, but these two items are the exact same price.
Using the rules as written, nobody will spend 55 years crafting
Leather Armor +3, a
Potion of Storm Giant Strength, or
Sovereign Glue. And you will never convince dozens of 17th-level Wizards to work on these items simultaneously, in order to bring the crafting times down. If WoTC truly wanted to make these magic items into artifacts.....then they could have done that. But they didn't. These are not truly powerful or awe-inspiring magic items, and the system for crafting them creates a situation where most of the stuff in the DMG wouldn't even be crafted in the first place.
ABSOLUTELY NOBODY here has had a legitimate response to these issues. That's the truth. People here are getting butthurt when I bring this up, especially when I start talking about "incentive". I mean, I don't see anyone here talking about how they crafted a "very rare" or "legendary" magic item in their campaigns,
using the rules as written. That tells me a lot. That tells me that posters here are defending a system that they don't even really use. And I sense the reason why they don't use it, is because the game mechanics create a
DISINCENTIVE for them to use the rules as written.
Articulating this seems to really irritate the "rulings not rules" crowd. There's nothing wrong with admitting that the system is defective. Gygax will not come back from the dead, and slap you guys to death for heresy.
No you don't. Ranting about a game that you don't even play without either understanding how it works or trying to build a better system for your own gaming is a waste of your time that you could be doing better things with. I don't play 5e and I don't like 5e. But it doesn't give me a rage-inducing brain aneurysm to think that others might play and might enjoy it. To then focus specifically on item crafting which is well-outside of the experience of most groups is really insane. Even if the creation of magical items were completely retarded, the rules do have a way of placing magic items as treasure that actually works.
Your argument is a little bit like saying bees can't fly - even if you were right that they SHOULDN'T be able to, they DO. If magic items SHOULDN'T be created, but they EXIST in the setting it implies that there is something you're missing, not that it is impossible. The 5th edition ruleset isn't complete (which is its own problem) but if they provide new rules on 'magical materials' that remove the GP cost of magical items, would you suddenly reverse course and feel that the Magic Item Creation rules are actually good?
Did you notice that you're not really addressing my points? Are my central points correct, or are they wrong? If so, why are they correct? Why are they wrong?
We are here to discuss tabletop roleplaying games, aren't we?
Whatever my current issues might be, I am still capable of being mostly fair. If someone corrects me, I'll admit my mistakes....as I have done so in this thread. So let's address all my mistakes in this thread.
Issues that I forgot or missed:(1.) Consumables are
half price (however, this errata'd rule was not in my book)(2.) PC makes a Charisma
(Persuasion) check, and adds that total to the roll on the
"Selling A Magic Item" table
(3.) Ability Score Improvement
(ability scores can improve by 2 points at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 19th-level; because bounded accuracy is so unforgiving, it's implied that PCs will have an ability score of 20 in their primary stat by 8th or 12th-level)(4.) Humans have +1 to all ability scores
(5.) One advantage can cancel all forms of disadvantage, and vice versa
(this argument was in a different thread though)I noticed the backgrounds, but didn't bring them up.....because it's unlikely that most spellcasters will automatically have the
Guild Artisan or
Noble background, when there are 13 different backgrounds in the DMG to choose from.
So now that I have articulated all my mistakes, how or why does this affect my central points? Are you now going to have your 17th-level Wizard spend the next 55 years crafting
Leather Armor +3? Or will he somehow convince four other 17th-level Wizards to help him spend every day of his life crafting a suit of
Leather Armor +3 over the next 11 years? The answer is....
....definitely not. :cool:
If the answer is
"definitely not", then how do these
"legendary" items ever get made......when there is no
INCENTIVE to spend 55 years of life crafting this stuff?
Nobody here has a legitimate answer for this, and I just see people turning their brains off and engaging in
"handwavium" instead. When people here do that, I see it as an
indirect admission that the game mechanics are defective.