Yeah you can't really discuss magic item crafting in 5e without looking at what Xanathar brings to the table since it expands it a lot more.

After looking through the 5e DMG, I came to the conclusion that the vast majority of the magic items in the book would never be created. Most of the items would not exist in treasure piles, or ever be enchanted.....because the process of enchantment is painfully slow, and tremendously vague. There are no clear guidelines for crafting, and even if you suck your DM's cock for the formula to enchant a magic item......it will still take you months, years, or even decades to create most of the items in this book.

I should also stress that the most powerful magic items in the book are extremely weak, have a very limited effect on your environment, and take years or decades to create.

The only magic items that would ever be enchanted would be some of the items from the "Common" and "Uncommon" lists, but mostly....it would be the occasional Potion of Climbing and Potion of Healing, and some Shields +1, Weapons +1, and Weapons of Warning. Magic armor takes far too long to be enchanted, and isn't strong enough to bother with. An obsessed maniac might bother creating +1 plate armor, but that's it. The rest of the magic items don't provide enough of a return on your investment in time and money to even bother crafting at all. Most items just take way too much time to enchant.

Aside from a desperately obsessed maniac risking rapid aging from a Potion of Longevity, those two potions above are the only ones in the game that would ever be created....as the others are largely cost and time prohibitive. They're consumables, and the other potions require several days, months, or years for you to create (usually months). As an example, here is a reminder of how long it takes to craft magic potions in 5e:

Quote from: Common (2 days for 8 hours a day)

Potion of Climbing [2 days]
Potion of Healing [2 days]

Uncommon (10 days for 8 hours a day)

Potion of Animal Friendship [10 days]
Potion of Fire Breath [10 days]
Potion of Hill Giant Strength [Strength 21, 10 days]
Potion of Growth [10 days]
Potion of (Greater) Healing [10 days]
Potion of Poison [10 days]
Potion of Resistance [10 days]
Potion of Water Breathing [10 days]

Rare (100 days = 3 months, 10 days for 8 hours a day)

Potion of Clairvoyance [100 days]
Potion of Diminution [100 days]
Potion of Gaseous Form [100 days]
Potion of Frost Giant Strength [Strength 23, 100 days]
Potion of Stone Giant Strength [Strength 23, 100 days]
Potion of Fire Giant Strength [Strength 25, 100 days]
Potion of (Superior) Healing [100 days]
Potion of Heroism [100 days]
Potion of Invulnerability [100 days]
Potion of Mind Reading [100 days]

Very Rare (1,000 days = 2 years, 8 months, 27 days for 8 hours a day)

Potion of Flying [1,000 days]
Potion of Cloud Giant Strength [Strength 27, [1,000 days]]
Potion of (Supreme) Healing [1,000 days]
Potion of Invisibility [1,000 days]
Potion of Longevity [10% cumulative chance of aging you 1d6+6 years, 1,000 days]
Potion of Speed [1,000 days]
Potion of Vitality [1,000 days]

Legendary (10,000 days = 27 years, 4 months, and 18 days for 8 hours a day)

Potion of Storm Giant Strength [Strength 29, 10,000 days]

Meanwhile, none of the "very rare" or "legendary" items would be created. Absolutely none. The only "rare" items that I could ever (maybe) see being crafted would be:

(1.) Amulet of Health [Constitution 19, requires attunement]
(2.) Belt of Dwarvenkind [requires attunement]
(3.) Belt of Hill Giant Strength [Strength 21, requires attunement]
(4.) Boots of Levitation [requires attunement]
(5.) Cloak of Displacement [requires attunement]
(6.) Cloak of the Bat [requires attunement]
(7.) Daern's Instant Fortress
(8.) Dimensional Shackles
(9.) Flame Tongue [requires attunement]
(10.) Folding Boat
(11.) Helm of Teleportation [3 charges per day, extremely unreliable, requires attunement]
(12.) Periapt of Proof Against Poison
(13.) Wings of Flying [can be used for 1 hour, cannot be reused for 1d12 hours]

And out of this list above, the only two items that are a sure bet for being crafted......would be an Amulet of Health for an old and sickly person, or a Periapt of Proof Against Poison for a ruler afraid of assassination. These magic items are weak, and the use of most of them is highly situational. Remember that it takes 6 months and 20 days to craft a "rare" non-consumable item. None of this stuff feels like D&D at all, and most of the magic items in the DMG would never be crafted in the first place. :cool:

I heavily recommend buying Codex of the Black Sun and just converting those rules to 5e (checks are 2d6+arcana Prof -2, don't add int mod).

Final item cost is not as formulaic as the Rules Cyclopedia, but the broad categories are more useful than what 5e did.

Quote from: Psikerlord;1110117I agree with much of  this. To make crafting fun, I think rare ingredients are a must - the PCs have to go out and get them. And I like the special timings too, and the example of the winter solstice deadline. I'm not so keen on the finding knowledge bit; I dont mind if the PCs basically do their own research.

Definitely prefer these kinds of approaches to it costs 50 bajillion gold and will take 70 years (don't bother). And I loathe the idea of "let's get 20 sorcerers onto this to make it quicker"... UGGHH.

"If it takes one woman nine months to bear a child, can nine women get it done in one month?" :confused::cool:

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;1110085I didn't copy and paste that list. I typed it up by hand. The reason why I typed this up, is because there is no such organized list, broken down entirely by rarity.......in the 5e Dungeon Master's Guide. No such list is there. It's hard to be truly aware of how idiotic the crafting system is, if you don't break everything down into separate sections for item rarity, creation cost, minimum caster level, and enchantment time.


Answer: Nobody.

There's this little dandy that WotC posted in 2014, it's been floating around since then.

https://media.wizards.com/2014/downloads/dnd/MagicItemsRarity_printerfriendly.pdf

The time-to-craft concerns sort of remind me of the base GURPS Magic enchantment system. If a single enchanter is working on something beyond their "Quick-and-Dirty" enchantment threshold (which could be done in a day or whatever), then you're looking at likely months to years of constant enchantment with short, if any, interruptions. Though it doesn't sound quite as pronounced as some of the items in here.

Also, you can enlist other enchanters to shorten the time, which helps alleviate the issue a lot; regardless, default enchantment in GURPS is pretty difficult and time-consuming to do solo.

Quote from: Mage;1110182There's this little dandy that WotC posted in 2014, it's been floating around since then.

https://media.wizards.com/2014/downloads/dnd/MagicItemsRarity_printerfriendly.pdf

Thank you. I actually didn't know that existed. However, it was still useful for me to pore through the 5e magic item list....and break things down by rarity. It gave me some more insight into how this highly dysfunctional magic item creation system works.

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;1110085*snip*
Answer: Nobody.

Answer: You fail miserably. Try again please.

Quote from: Omega;1110332Answer: You fail miserably. Try again please.

I'll admit that I'm being a little douchey, but I am correct.

Would you spend almost 7 months crafting a Bag of Beans, when you know that you'd be unable to predictably use it for yourself in any beneficial way? You wouldn't even be able to reliably use it as a weapon against an enemy, as there are much more predictable and efficient methods of attack.

The Frost Brand sword is just plain weak, and its abilities are highly situational. Would you spend five-and-a-half-years of your precious life crafting that?

Of course not. Nobody would. And this is the point. But while I'm here, I'll also list crafting times for non-magical weapons and armor......since it all adds up.

Non-magical items can be crafted in 5 gp increments per day, until you reach the market value of the item. A battleaxe would be crafted in 2 days. A breastplate would be crafted in 80 days.

Quote from: Name____________________Cost___________Time to Craft

Simple Melee Weapons

Club_________________________1 sp___________50 weapons per day
Dagger_______________________2 gp___________2 weapons per day
Greatclub____________________2 sp____________25 weapons per day
Handaxe______________________5 gp___________1 weapon per day
Javelin______________________5 sp____________10 weapons per day
Light Hammer_________________2 gp____________2 weapons per day
Mace_________________________5 gp___________1 weapon per day
Quarterstaff_________________2 sp_____________25 weapons per day
Sickle_______________________1 gp____________5 weapons per day
Spear________________________1 gp___________5 weapons per day

Simple Ranged Weapons

Crossbow, Light______________25 gp____________1 weapon in 5 days
Dart_________________________5 cp___________100 weapons per day
Shortbow_____________________25 gp___________1 weapon in 5 days
Sling________________________1 sp____________50 weapons per day

Martial Melee Weapons

Battleaxe____________________10 gp____________1 weapon per 2 days
Flail________________________10 gp____________1 weapon per 2 days
Glaive_______________________20 gp___________1 weapon per 4 days
Greataxe_____________________10 gp___________1 weapon per 2 days
Greatsword___________________50 gp____________1 weapon per 10 days
Halberd______________________20 gp____________1 weapon per 4 days
Lance________________________10 gp____________1 weapon per 2 days
Longsword____________________15 gp____________1 weapon per 3 days
Maul_________________________10 gp____________1 weapon per 2 days
Morningstar__________________15 gp____________1 weapon per 3 days
Pike__________________________5 gp____________1 weapon per day
Rapier_______________________25 gp____________1 weapon per 5 days
Scimitar_____________________25 gp____________1 weapon per 5 days
Shortsword___________________10 gp____________1 weapon per 2 days
Trident_______________________5 gp____________1 weapon per day
War Pick______________________5 gp____________1 weapon per day
Warhammer____________________15 gp____________1 weapon per 3 days
Whip__________________________2 gp____________2 weapons per day

Martial Ranged Weapons

Blowgun______________________10 gp____________1 weapon per 2 days
Crossbow, Hand_______________75 gp____________1 weapon per 15 days
Crossbow, Heavy______________50 gp____________1 weapon per 10 days
Longbow______________________50 gp___________1 weapon per 10 days
Net___________________________1 gp____________5 weapon per day

Quote from: Armor______________Cost______Time to Craft

Light Armor

Padded________________5 gp________1 day
Leather_______________10 gp_______2 days
Studded Leather________45 gp_______9 days

Medium Armor

Hide__________________10 gp________2 days
Chain Shirt_____________50 gp_______10 days
Scale Mail______________50 gp_______10 days
Breastplate____________400 gp_______80 days
Half Plate______________750 gp______150 days

Heavy Armor

Ring Mail_______________30 gp________6 days
Chain Mail______________75 gp________15 days
Splint_________________200 gp________40 days
Plate_________________1,500 gp______300 days

Shield

Shield__________________10 gp________2 days

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;1110394I'll admit that I'm being a little douchey, but I am correct.

Would you spend almost 7 months crafting a Bag of Beans, when you know that you'd be unable to predictably use it for yourself in any beneficial way? You wouldn't even be able to reliably use it as a weapon against an enemy, as there are much more predictable and efficient methods of attack.

The Frost Brand sword is just plain weak, and its abilities are highly situational. Would you spend five-and-a-half-years of your precious life crafting that?

Of course not. Nobody would. And this is the point. [...]

A bored Elf, Vampire, Lich, Fey, Dragon, Aberration, or Demon very much might.

You are trying to understand Imagination Land: Fantasy from a strictly human productivity perspective. Longevity changes the scale of whimsy. I know you are not asking to homogenize the motivations of all of Imagination Land: Fantasy, but have you considered you are falling into the trap of your "logic" is the only acceptable "logic"?

And this speaks nothing about Longevity of Institutions, the human counterpoint to individual longevity of fantastic creatures. These we have examples today of massive works projects that outlive the planners and builders. They are made for all sorts of reasons, but predominantly a status seeking -- of which whimsy can very much be a logical motive.

So, objectively (using real world facts about institutional long-term projects) you are wrong, and further wrong if taking into account the grandeur of Imagination Land: Fantasy! C'mon, dial this ex-cathedra bluster down and verbalize what specifically  you want for your campaign. We're all friends here, this ain't the Gaming Den.

Yeah I was gonna say, clearly some people made these magic items or they wouldn't be all over dungeons. Even if it's ancient empires millennia ago.

If humans on planet earth can waste vast resources, including lifetimes, on fashion nothing is off-limits.

I once saw in a museum a bobbin lace cuff of a Duke's favorite carriage that took the full employ of an engineer for 15 years. The production itself, with a team of bobbin lace weavers, then took a few more years. It was a flamboyant "F U, I'm rich, bitch!" on the scale of human decades... to wear on a sleeve.

NOTHING is off-limits for "wastefulness."

I think his point is that no PLAYER would make it -- which is probably true, but I view it as setting the time table for the setting itself.

Players won't make it because they're supposed to be hunting around for magic items and get them rarely. The rest of the world though still is doing its own thing. And then there's big downtime timeskips for possible crafting.

Probably, it is likely meant for NPC logistics. But that doesn't stop it from being an adventure unto itself. Perhaps a PC is invested in making 'FU Lace' and is using downtime. Perhaps it's an unusual table (mine! that wants to make adventures in fashion, and they hear a rival lace process is in the works to make lace production cheaper and less prestigious! :mad: Now our intrepid adventurers have to contemplate industrial sabotage so 'FU Lace' can stay in fashion longer.

Again, context is only everything.

For some they want this production off-the-table, others on. Some want crafting easier to represent their setting conceits. Some want it elaborated converting the logistical abstracted amount into contextually relevant setting particulars. Some want to play with the madness as is just to see if PCs want to get involved (regardless how petty! ).

But as a guideline dial, it seems remarkably accessible to me.

Greetings!

In my own campaign, I have everything can be forged and created in usually less than three months, unless it is some kind of uber artifact. Such artifacts can take considerably longer, depending on the item and other variables. Having stupid long creation times is pointless.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK