Quote from: boulet;406561I've never read Mentzer's basic set. I see a few of you who say the condescending tone was a turn off. How did it express exactly? Do you have examples?

The player's book started with a choose your own adventure to introduce you to the concepts and mechanics of the game.  This is not bad on its own, but it was written like the author was addressing a 2-year-old.  Like, remember those story books that came with tapes or records that told you to turn the page when you heard the sound of the magic wand?  Yeah, it was written like that.

I no longer have the Mentzer books, so I can't provide a direct quote.  Though Clash's cite is stirring the memory...

Thanks to those who corrected me about Dark Dungeons. It's a new(ish) thing and I forgot about it.

To me the big diff between Moldvay and Mentzer is the way that MUs don't learn spells by reading them in...Moldvay I think it is. The spells are more like powers, there's no read magic, you can't learn a spell from a scroll, etc.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;406576Thanks to those who corrected me about Dark Dungeons. It's a new(ish) thing and I forgot about it.

To me the big diff between Moldvay and Mentzer is the way that MUs don't learn spells by reading them in...Moldvay I think it is. The spells are more like powers, there's no read magic, you can't learn a spell from a scroll, etc.

Interesting.

Do any of them give rules for starting spells in a magic-user's spellbook?

Moldvay has read magic and spellbooks, but essentially spells function like powers.  Read magic does not allow you to copy spells from another spell book, only to read scrolls.

I believe Mentzer let you start with more than one spell.  RC had this feature, too, I think.

Huh, I didn't remember that read magic in Moldvay is necessary to read scrolls, but it's right there in Labyrinth Lord (I don't have the Moldvay texts handy).

Going by LL: you need Read Magic to read scrolls containing spells from the M-U list, so only M-Us and Elves can cast spells from those scrolls. (The read magic description explains that you use read magic to identify/read the spell, and then you can read/cast it any time without using read magic again.) Clerics (only) can read/cast spells from the Cleric list.

And Thieves can't read scrolls!

However, LL explicitly says that M-Us and elves can learn spells by copying them from a spell book, so this might be a fine difference from Moldvay.

Quote from: KenHR;406666Moldvay has read magic and spellbooks, but essentially spells function like powers.  Read magic does not allow you to copy spells from another spell book, only to read scrolls.

I believe Mentzer let you start with more than one spell.  RC had this feature, too, I think.

Ken, I just noticed this. Do you have a question about that quote in your signature? It has to do with describing why the Forge games and community came out and developed like they did, not trying to equivocate the advent of D20 with 9/11.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;406685Ken, I just noticed this. Do you have a question about that quote in your signature? It has to do with describing why the Forge games and community came out and developed like they did, not trying to equivocate the advent of D20 with 9/11.

I found the quote funny.  I will change it if it offends.  Let me know via PM rather than derail the thread.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;406680However, LL explicitly says that M-Us and elves can learn spells by copying them from a spell book, so this might be a fine difference from Moldvay.

Hmm...now I have to re-read the spell book rule in Moldvay.  I might have made an unconscious house rule.