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Author Topic: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby  (Read 27447 times)

Shasarak

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #180 on: October 01, 2021, 05:26:34 PM »
So in summary…

The importance of diversity and representation is roughly the same as the color of toothpick in the next club sandwich I order.

SJW arguments fall apart at alarming speeds on forums where the non-woke are not immediately banned and deleted.

Oh and most importantly, Shasarak would like to speak with the manager.

It is exhausting complaining but at least I can sleep well knowing that I have done my part.
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

FingerRod

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #181 on: October 01, 2021, 05:28:14 PM »
So in summary…

The importance of diversity and representation is roughly the same as the color of toothpick in the next club sandwich I order.

SJW arguments fall apart at alarming speeds on forums where the non-woke are not immediately banned and deleted.

Oh and most importantly, Shasarak would like to speak with the manager.

It is exhausting complaining but at least I can sleep well knowing that I have done my part.

Your bravery is so inspiring. You are #lifegoals.

GeekyBugle

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #182 on: October 01, 2021, 05:30:36 PM »
So in summary…

The importance of diversity and representation is roughly the same as the color of toothpick in the next club sandwich I order.

SJW arguments fall apart at alarming speeds on forums where the non-woke are not immediately banned and deleted.

Oh and most importantly, Shasarak would like to speak with the manager.

It is exhausting complaining but at least I can sleep well knowing that I have done my part.

But you failed to link to your paypal so "POCs" can donate so you can keep on being offended on our behalf!
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Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

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― George Orwell

Shasarak

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #183 on: October 01, 2021, 05:42:07 PM »
So in summary…

The importance of diversity and representation is roughly the same as the color of toothpick in the next club sandwich I order.

SJW arguments fall apart at alarming speeds on forums where the non-woke are not immediately banned and deleted.

Oh and most importantly, Shasarak would like to speak with the manager.

It is exhausting complaining but at least I can sleep well knowing that I have done my part.

Your bravery is so inspiring. You are #lifegoals.

I know right.  All my White friends agree.
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Eirikrautha

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #184 on: October 01, 2021, 07:40:39 PM »
Representation matters to some people:

Why on-screen representation matters according to these teens


And this is the best example of why the modern "woke" left is ideologically bankrupt.  When you truly believe that you should be paying close attention to what teenagers say, as if they know what they are talking about (and remembering how clueless all teenagers were when you were that age, as you look back on it), then you are intellectually bereft of any solid arguments...

SHARK

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #185 on: October 01, 2021, 08:18:44 PM »
Am I *supposed* to be outraged there are no Filipino Boxsets? Please oh please white people, tell me to what degree I should be angry or triggered?

Dont worry tenbones you dont have to do anything because I, as a White Man, have got this and am very angry and triggered on your behalf.

In fact where is the Manager, I would like to have some words.

Greetings!

*Chokes on soda*--*Laughing* Fucking hilarious, Shasarak! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #186 on: October 01, 2021, 08:20:56 PM »
When you truly believe that you should be paying close attention to what teenagers say, as if they know what they are talking about (and remembering how clueless all teenagers were when you were that age, as you look back on it), then you are intellectually bereft of any solid arguments...

They don't. They just don't argue in good faith. They make appeals that they think matter to you, but don't care about that themselves.

SHARK

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #187 on: October 01, 2021, 08:59:30 PM »
Greetings!

As has been mentioned numerous times by many, there is NOTHING legitimate about the SJW's arguments in favor of "Diversity and Representation." It is all political bullshit created by cock-sucking Marxists that want to corrupt everything in Western society.

D&D games have *always* been diverse. Every campaign I have DM'd--and most of the campaigns I have played in from the beginning--decades ago now, from the 1970's--have been diverse.

The SJW's can get fucked. Geesus, these people are such mindless, brainwashed troglodytes! In random hypothetical game world I have played in--just like nearly every gamer's campaign worlds--we have had white people, black people, brown people, and Asian people. Is it verboten to characterize Asian people as "Yellow"? I recall reading numerous books that considered the technical skin tones of Asians as being "yellow"--which is why forever they have been considered the yellow race. I've always thought Asians seem to mostly range from being pale, pale white, to a warm, medium brown colour. Ahh, the various technical manuals that describe skin colours get all into all kinds o crazy shades and variations. Whatever though. And campaigns had lots of Middle-Eastern types of people, too.

However, the huge elephant in the room though, is when you actually think of "Diversity"--all of these various Human traditions and variations--and focusing on them to the hysterical obsession--is really petty and irrelevant in a typical D&D fantasy world. In the typical D&D fantasy world, there are Orcs, Halflings, Elves, Dwarves, and Gnomes as major races. Then, there are numerous other potential races that are relatively common--Tieflings, Dragonborn, Minotaurs, Goblins, Beastmen, Satyrs, as well as Ratmen, Lion-people, Tabaxi, Tiger people, Elephant people, Hippo people, not to mention Insect people, Trolls, Bird people, and dozens of half-races.

How much fucking diversity do you need? All of that seems overwhelmingly diverse to me. It's a wonder that Humans manage to survive at all in such worlds full of diverse humanoid races. Still, the point being, there is enormous variety nd diversity throughout D&D game campaigns. In the face of such enormous racial and cultural diversity, the particular Human varieties seem entirely irrelevant to me. Furthermore, in such an environment, it doesn't seem like most Human communities would be all that concerned about slight variations of Humans, when there are absolute hordes of non-Human races in every direction.

D&D has always had enormous diversity, inherently, in every game world and campaign.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

jhkim

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #188 on: October 01, 2021, 10:11:27 PM »
For me, it becomes clearer when we talk about specifics. For example, having gay characters in RPG modules. tenbones has said that it's inherently wrong for WotC to include gay characters in existing settings like Forgotten Realms, Eberron, or Greyhawk, because it's inserting modern politics where it doesn't belong. While I might like or dislike any given character, I don't agree with that as a policy. I think it's fine to have gay characters in modules. Conversely, I believe that most RPG publishers banned gay characters in the 70s and 80s, and that ban was wrong and rooted in the prejudice of the time.

TL;DR: it's not the people existing that's the problem. It's the existing pseudo-medieval game worlds created with fantasy 1970s or 1980s social norms being warped to look like Seattle 2021 that's the problem for me.

Later D&D material has always updated itself, though, rather than aspiring to seem like 1970s retro. That was true in the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s just as much as today. I can generally tell just by looking at them what decade most modules were published in - not by the mechanics, but by the artwork, descriptions, and so forth. They have different feel on many levels.

I think that's common if not inevitable for an ongoing game brand. Both the mechanics and the background are regularly getting updated and changed.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #189 on: October 01, 2021, 10:23:23 PM »
I think that's common if not inevitable for an ongoing game brand. Both the mechanics and the background are regularly getting updated and changed.

And the latest trend is diversity & representation. Why is it the latest trend and why is rejecting it seen as somekind of blasthemy is the question here.

jhkim

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #190 on: October 01, 2021, 10:31:46 PM »
I think that's common if not inevitable for an ongoing game brand. Both the mechanics and the background are regularly getting updated and changed.

And the latest trend is diversity & representation. Why is it the latest trend and why is rejecting it seen as somekind of blasthemy is the question here.

If someone opposes gay characters in modules on general principles that gay characters are bad, then this argument works.

But some posters like tenbones and S'mon are saying ​roughly, "There's nothing wrong with gay characters in modules. The problem is just that they don't fit with the established settings."

But there have been a ton of major changes in the D&D settings. Opposing all the other changes in D&D would at least be consistent - but even then, that doesn't mean it's right.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #191 on: October 01, 2021, 10:51:12 PM »
If someone opposes gay characters in modules on general principles that gay characters are bad, then this argument works.
Again its the 'red shirt' principle. Why are you insisting to add redshirts? Why am I a bad person for even asking? You are willing to even add reflective neon redshirt characters for forest hunters for whom dressing in red would break camoflage. And insist this is good.

Quote
But some posters like tenbones and S'mon are saying ​roughly, "There's nothing wrong with gay characters in modules. The problem is just that they don't fit with the established settings."

I am not like them. I feel that their reasoning puts them on the defensive on enforced changes. I don't hate gay people (or characters) but I oppose diversity qouta changes on principle. I don't care if you do it makes 'sense' or not. I find that entire line of reasoning corrupt.

jhkim

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #192 on: October 01, 2021, 11:01:51 PM »
But some posters like tenbones and S'mon are saying ​roughly, "There's nothing wrong with gay characters in modules. The problem is just that they don't fit with the established settings."

I am not like them. I feel that their reasoning puts them on the defensive on enforced changes. I don't hate gay people (or characters) but I oppose diversity qouta changes on principle. I don't care if you do it makes 'sense' or not. I find that entire line of reasoning corrupt.

I'm not sure if we're disagreeing. I'm opposed to both quotas and bans. There should be gay characters in a module if the author imagines them and wants them there. As far as I know, the gay characters that have appeared in modules are the result of author choice - not an enforced editorial quota.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #193 on: October 01, 2021, 11:13:16 PM »
I'm not sure if we're disagreeing. I'm opposed to both quotas and bans. There should be gay characters in a module if the author imagines them and wants them there. As far as I know, the gay characters that have appeared in modules are the result of author choice - not an enforced editorial quota.
Im playing Psychonauts 2. It has a ton of great characters. Some of those great characters are also gay. All fine by me.

But there are more forces at work here then just qoutas or bans. The cultural forces that led to qoutas being put into place, and the mobs that are created in support or destruction of something.
Have you REALLY not witnessed any such cultural forces?
Why is it the authors choice to stress that the characters are gay and not that their italians? Why has it become a talking point AT ALL, is the entire discussion point.

GeekyBugle

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #194 on: October 01, 2021, 11:13:23 PM »
I think that's common if not inevitable for an ongoing game brand. Both the mechanics and the background are regularly getting updated and changed.

And the latest trend is diversity & representation. Why is it the latest trend and why is rejecting it seen as somekind of blasthemy is the question here.

If someone opposes gay characters in modules on general principles that gay characters are bad, then this argument works.

But some posters like tenbones and S'mon are saying ​roughly, "There's nothing wrong with gay characters in modules. The problem is just that they don't fit with the established settings."

But there have been a ton of major changes in the D&D settings. Opposing all the other changes in D&D would at least be consistent - but even then, that doesn't mean it's right.

I for one find it weird you insisting on gay characters but don't provide a quote, can you quote tenbones or S'mon saying what you say they said?

I strongly suspect you're embelishing whatever they wrote.

The Argument goes like this:

If you don't include group X in your games then you're an istophobe! And you can't make them the bad guys. You also can't write them if you're not part of group X so hire me.

Our argument goes like this:

Group X can't be in this place (and we have provided logical reasons you can't dismantle so you don't address them)

In this world group X wouldn't be as accepted as in 2021 Seattle (and we provide reasons)

The useal reaction is to call us istophobes and to ignore that tenbones and myself aren't huwhite males.

And that last part is why (I suspect) you switched to gays.

Since I'm not playing an X rated game the sexuality of the characters comes up almost never. If in the world I built gay people aren't accepted and need to hide you will call me a phobe. Because to you ALL fantasy worlds need to feel like 2021 Seattle. Why? Because Dragons.

The exact same argument DeadDM uses to say that Mayas and Filipinos SHOULD be in my pseudo medieval Europe elfgame. Because Dragons.

Please provide quotes to prove what you're saying and try and level up your "arguments" I can only entertain so many variations of "Because Dragons", it gets boring real fast.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell