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Author Topic: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby  (Read 14017 times)

CD

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The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« on: September 17, 2021, 08:23:28 AM »
"Diversity And Representation In The Hobby" is meaningless, let me make my case -
https://youtu.be/JvPeGvKC5do

Banjo Destructo

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2021, 09:06:36 AM »
I honestly think real diversity in friend groups is a good thing, liberal bubbles need more real conservative friends, and vice versa.

oggsmash

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2021, 09:17:22 AM »
I honestly think real diversity in friend groups is a good thing, liberal bubbles need more real conservative friends, and vice versa.

  I have to be honest, I think a WHOLE lot of very lefty people clamoring for diversity and always talking inclusion tend to be very white in their persona, as well as their peer/friend groups.  I think they either grew up in a fairly homogenous place, and played ZERO contact sports.  I grew up playing  sports (certain sports, like football and track, if your area is not lily white, you are going to make some non white friends) and had as diverse a friend group as the area I was in allowed (we had lots of white people and proportionately large population of black people (around 30 percent) by who was there.  In the military, again very diverse population and friend group.  I think the real issue with lots and lots of these folks who are in a liberal bubble is they do not know very many black, or brown people on a personal level.  One or two?  maybe, but lots? probably not.   This is why they often refer to people in different groups as just that, groups instead of individuals.  The first dungeons and dragons game I played at school in the 5th grade had 3 white players and 3 black players.  At the time I am not sure we had any other race/ethnicity in the school.   How much more inclusive do rpgs have to be?   As the video says, you can be anything you want, and play in any world you like.   

   These guys come up to me TO THIS DAY and talk about how much fun we had playing (we got shut down after about 5 sessions due to a teacher and the librarian's satanic panic).  So for the most part, more and more I think a whole bunch of these people demanding "diversity" just grew up in homogeneous (and for the most part I would bet upper middle class and white neighborhoods/school districts) places and assume their "reality" was all of reality.   

Banjo Destructo

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2021, 09:47:18 AM »
I honestly think real diversity in friend groups is a good thing, liberal bubbles need more real conservative friends, and vice versa.

  I have to be honest, I think a WHOLE lot of very lefty people clamoring for diversity and always talking inclusion tend to be very white in their persona, as well as their peer/friend groups.  I think they either grew up in a fairly homogenous place, and played ZERO contact sports.  I grew up playing  sports (certain sports, like football and track, if your area is not lily white, you are going to make some non white friends) and had as diverse a friend group as the area I was in allowed (we had lots of white people and proportionately large population of black people (around 30 percent) by who was there.  In the military, again very diverse population and friend group.  I think the real issue with lots and lots of these folks who are in a liberal bubble is they do not know very many black, or brown people on a personal level.  One or two?  maybe, but lots? probably not.   This is why they often refer to people in different groups as just that, groups instead of individuals.  The first dungeons and dragons game I played at school in the 5th grade had 3 white players and 3 black players.  At the time I am not sure we had any other race/ethnicity in the school.   How much more inclusive do rpgs have to be?   As the video says, you can be anything you want, and play in any world you like.   

   These guys come up to me TO THIS DAY and talk about how much fun we had playing (we got shut down after about 5 sessions due to a teacher and the librarian's satanic panic).  So for the most part, more and more I think a whole bunch of these people demanding "diversity" just grew up in homogeneous (and for the most part I would bet upper middle class and white neighborhoods/school districts) places and assume their "reality" was all of reality.

Oh yeah,  I agree. I think people who clamor FOR diversity are like... whats the word... well they don't really know what they're talking about because they want to help spread their orthodoxy, they're evangelists of their faith.   But they don't understand.  They think "What" you are has to be "who" you are,  instead of "who" you are being different from "what" you are.

They are also suffering from a devastating lack of diversity in their friend groups who can tell them that these ideas are full of shit.

rytrasmi

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2021, 11:10:58 AM »
"Diversity And Representation In The Hobby" is meaningless, let me make my case -
https://youtu.be/JvPeGvKC5do
"You can play a character that is not your sex or not your color."

Oh, no you didn't!! /s

There are people who would disagree with you on that, but those people don't understand role playing games or are against them. Anyway, your comments are solid and common sense, which is lacking these days.

I've noticed that the people who are most adamant about these types of causes in role playing games tend to not play much or at all. They are busybodies. At best, they are new the hobby, have played a little, and never GMed.


S'mon

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2021, 11:39:53 AM »
Gaming in England, I think it's important I (myself a mixed race Anglo-Eireann) have a diverse group of Angles, Jutes AND Saxons. Possibly even some players with ancestry in the old Danelaw, or who came over with William the Conqueror. Not forgetting my fellow Celtic Fringers. Even if they/we can be a bit wild.

When I first came to London, it was years before I played D&D with an Englishman. But representation of Indigenous Communities is important.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 11:41:45 AM by S'mon »

Mithgarthr

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2021, 11:44:50 AM »
Gaming in England, I think it's important I (myself a mixed race Anglo-Eireann) have a diverse group of Angles, Jutes AND Saxons. Possibly even some players with ancestry in the old Danelaw, or who came over with William the Conqueror. Not forgetting my fellow Celtic Fringers. Even if they/we can be a bit wild.

When I first came to London, it was years before I played D&D with an Englishman. But representation of Indigenous Communities is important.

Angles, Jutes, Saxons, and Danes but no Gauls?

Literally the perfect group.  Sign me up.  8)

Ghostmaker

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2021, 12:15:43 PM »
If you don't play 'persons of color' you're white washing, and if you do play persons of color, you're appropriating/gentrifying.

The wise words of Joshua come to mind.

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."

tenbones

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2021, 03:54:20 PM »
I literally had no idea that "diversity" in gaming was even an "issue" until leftist white people from the Pacific Northwest started screaming about it.

My regular groups - not counting players that came and went, and girl/boyfriends that dipped in and out.

LA Group #1 - Me (Asian), Mexican-Canadian guy, three black guys, an Indonesian guy, a white guy
LA Group #2 - Me, two Greek guys, a Afghani, a Greek girl, a gay Spaniard, a American white guy
LA Group #3 - Me, two Filipinos guys, a Guamanian/Filipino mutant male (I think), a Japanese guy, a Hawaiaan/Samoan hybrid experiment.
Current Group - Me, a Portuguese guy, three white guys (but one I'm not sure about as he's got a 70's softcore porn female name that sounds Hispanic), and this Italian white guy with Turkish roots.

The only thing we have in common is we all love to play RPG's. In some cases we're diametrically opposed politically and different religions - but at no point was it ever an issue over years and years of gaming.

Precisely zero curation based on race. And yes, I was living in SoCal so there's a lot of people from *everywhere*. I ran all three groups during the week, in the same campaign world, we'd interchange players as needed though all the groups were doing different stuff, and this went on for well over 20 years with some of them.

When I ran games the local LA cons for years - tons of people from all walks of life. Tons of smells there too, not of this Earth. Very diverse.

It wasn't until I moved to Dallas in 95 that I had a predominantly white group. And even then I never noticed until all this discussion about race and gender in the hobby became a thing. What annoys the fuck out of me and my players is that these fuckheads living in their bubble don't see how diverse the hobby already was. They are the one that fetishize people of other ethnicities and are trying to save us (oddly from people that vaguely look like them once you strip away the chromatic hair, clonespeak, and tendency to shriek.)

Anecdotal they might say. I might say "Don't deny my Truth", if it I didn't know how retarded that actually sounded. It's *really* creepy to watch people filled with such self-loathing, seeking for an outlet to spew their self-hate on, and collectively constructing this narrative in which to do it. Unfortunately at our expense.

Like I said they're drunk on their own urine and fumes. It might be too late for them to recover, but that's not my problem.




Stephen Tannhauser

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2021, 04:15:07 PM »
I honestly think real diversity in friend groups is a good thing, liberal bubbles need more real conservative friends, and vice versa.

Agreed. What most people forget is that what is wanted, for a really interesting cast of characters in any imagined narrative, is a diverse representation of experience and perspective. Your characters all have to want different things based on the different lives they've lived, and they have to have their own ideas about what that means and how to get it.

SJ fandom's tragic mistake is to assume that mere demographic diversity is a reliable proxy for this quality (which is a bit of a reflex prejudice in and of itself), coupled with the toxic entitlement syndrome which says you have a right to a protagonist who not only "represents" your group, but does so as a positive and admirable example, in any and every narrative you wish.
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

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Stephen Tannhauser

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2021, 04:18:22 PM »
When I first came to London, it was years before I played D&D with an Englishman. But representation of Indigenous Communities is important.

England (and I speak as a Scots-descended Celto-/Anglophile) is actually a perfect example of something I think it might help if we all remembered more often: If you go back far enough, nobody's "indigenous".
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

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DM_Curt

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2021, 04:53:31 PM »
When I first came to London, it was years before I played D&D with an Englishman. But representation of Indigenous Communities is important.

England (and I speak as a Scots-descended Celto-/Anglophile) is actually a perfect example of something I think it might help if we all remembered more often: If you go back far enough, nobody's "indigenous".
Speaking as a Cro-Magnon, y'all need to get off my land.

Shasarak

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2021, 05:21:37 PM »
Gaming in England, I think it's important I (myself a mixed race Anglo-Eireann) have a diverse group of Angles, Jutes AND Saxons. Possibly even some players with ancestry in the old Danelaw, or who came over with William the Conqueror. Not forgetting my fellow Celtic Fringers. Even if they/we can be a bit wild.

When I first came to London, it was years before I played D&D with an Englishman. But representation of Indigenous Communities is important.

I spent a little time in England and as far as I remember it was white Englishmen as far as the eye could see.
There will be poor always,
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look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

S'mon

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2021, 05:44:23 PM »
I spent a little time in England and as far as I remember it was white Englishmen as far as the eye could see.

England not London then, I take it?  ;D

These days I do actually live in just about the whitest (not necessarily English) part of London. My son finds it weird when he goes out of London, seeing all the white people.


Shasarak

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Re: The Importance Of Diversity And Representation In The Hobby
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2021, 05:51:56 PM »
I spent a little time in England and as far as I remember it was white Englishmen as far as the eye could see.

England not London then, I take it?  ;D

These days I do actually live in just about the whitest (not necessarily English) part of London. My son finds it weird when he goes out of London, seeing all the white people.

No, I only spent a few days in London, mostly Norwich and Whitehaven.
There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus