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Author Topic: The Hadosee controversy, what is it all about?  (Read 6616 times)

Kerstmanneke82

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The Hadosee controversy, what is it all about?
« on: September 03, 2022, 03:14:27 AM »
I'm not all that well versed in that race other than they are space monkeys coming from Star Frontiers I believe and they were scooped up by WOTC and people are losing their shit because they are supposedly racist. AFAIK it's because there could be seen allegories between their story and the history of slavery, which, as we all know since the controversy about the Absalom book of Pathfinder 2nd edition, is a no-no.

But, hasn't it ever occurred to these people complaining that it may just be a story and nothing more? If it were true that they meant to say that space monkeys are basically people of this or that race, and that they should feel offended, then I, with my Western European ancestry, could be offended each time barbarians are portrayed as white people, or if people talk about medieval societies which had serfs because at one time it existed in my country - I am from Belgium but have French roots, so yes, I know what I'm talking about, feudalism and serfdom were all the rage back in those days, only to be replaced by robber barons and their textile mills.

In my game one of the quest givers is an owner of a plantation, whereupon tortles work as slaves. The true crop, however, are the strongest Tortles, which are bred to be sold as delicacies. Is it modelled after the South? Yes, I'm not a hypocrite. Is the plantation owner in any way portrayed as a good and kind person? Hell, no. He's an evil, narcissistic piece of shit who will, in time, get his.

The point that I'm making is, you can see whatever you want to see in whatever you see. If you can't use history as a basis for your games, your games will be very bleak, dull and boring.

THE_Leopold

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Re: The Hadosee controversy, what is it all about?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2022, 08:58:45 AM »
Busy Body soul sucking shit heels think that any race that has a  skin color darker than Beige=Representing a Black Person.  Furthermore, if the race has any Simian traits it therefore must be mocking a Black Person.  Finally,  if the Race has any type of savage behavior it therefore must be respresenting a Black Person.


TLDR: SJW's are the biggest racists on the planet and are projecting.
NKL4Lyfe

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: The Hadosee controversy, what is it all about?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2022, 11:24:04 AM »

weirdguy564

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Re: The Hadosee controversy, what is it all about?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2022, 11:53:38 AM »
Because the words Apes and Monkeys are sometimes used as slurs for Africans (so much that racist fans in European soccer/football matches throw bananas onto the grass field as an insult to African players in “their” league) it’s just a taboo now.

But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, as Sigmund Freud said. 

I also say to NOT avoid those topics.  I want my bad guys to be bad guys.  To make you instantly dislike or even hate them you can have them do stuff like own slaves.  You know, to make you want to go after them, rob them, or kill them and feel good about it.  And not to just get 250xp. 
I’m glad for you if you like the top selling game of the genre.  Me, I like the road less travelled, and will be the player asking we try a game you’ve never heard of.

Venka

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Re: The Hadosee controversy, what is it all about?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2022, 12:35:45 PM »
But, hasn't it ever occurred to these people complaining that it may just be a story and nothing more?

I mean, these little guys have always been "a story and nothing more", but suddenly their background was changed dramatically to be something where you are supposed to see them as a stand in for blacks.  So from 1982 to 2022, these were inquisitive exploration monkeys.  Then they brought in racial minded leftist anti-white writers and suddenly there are a suspicious number of heavy handed analogies and references, a completely rewritten origin, etc.

Happenstance?  Possibly, but it seems much more likely to be deliberate.  Pundit's video on this seems definitive IMO.

Darkwind

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Re: The Hadosee controversy, what is it all about?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2022, 12:59:03 PM »
https://youtu.be/u-aTvzIyw-Q

Re: The above linked video, that didn't take long, eh?

If you are going to write sweeping changes to the backstory because you are racist AF and see all simians as stand-ins for blacks and thereby must be "slave races" at least own it. You wanted the spacefaring explorers to be "muh oppressed blacks" stand-ins. Ok, that is your right now own that shit. But nope! An even more toxic group of racist far leftists now point & shriek at, and ultimately, cannibalize their own, as they always do, so I guess we are going back to "adventurous inquisitive starfaring space monkeys".

But, what a bunch of spineless sissies caving to the Woke Mob. The good news is, my hard copy of the Spelljammer box set just doubled in value because it basically just became a "Limited Run First Edition Print" filled with 2 paragraphs of "Dat Evil Rayciss Errata" thereby making it automatically valuable as a collector's item. So there is that at least...  8) ;D
« Last Edit: September 03, 2022, 09:32:55 PM by Darkwind »

THE_Leopold

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Re: The Hadosee controversy, what is it all about?
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2022, 01:27:50 PM »
I am SHOCKED the gith race has not been erased from the history consider what the Lich Queen did to those humans over millenia.

They nixed the backstory of winged apes from the Wizard of Oz cause of pussy reasons.

All the more reason to now create splat books on DTRPG and make a fortune off the hype.
NKL4Lyfe

Lynn

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Re: The Hadosee controversy, what is it all about?
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2022, 02:40:18 PM »
It seems like just another case of exertion of narrative control where no ownership exists or is relevant, just like the logic behind cultural appropriation.
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Kerstmanneke82

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Re: The Hadosee controversy, what is it all about?
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2022, 04:48:51 PM »
To make you instantly dislike or even hate them you can have them do stuff like own slaves.  You know, to make you want to go after them, rob them, or kill them and feel good about it.  And not to just get 250xp.

Yes, as stated before. The plantation owner is a piece of, in this case, Dragonborn trash. He literally hasn't got any redeeming qualities. It is not that he treats or sees the Tortles as inferior, to him they literally are cattle apart fromhis household staff, even snatching little ones, cook them using his fire breath and then sucking them out of their shell by the tail. Or crack them open using tongs of some kind. He is an evil being, but unfortunately an evil rich being who can get the party to the radiant citadel, using a clone of the speaker so the shield wouldn't raise, giving the party the time to destroy the diamond the evil lich uses as his phylactery. But if it is done, I believe the party will pay him "another visit".

Godsmonkey

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Re: The Hadosee controversy, what is it all about?
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2022, 04:56:45 PM »
It didnt take long for the ONE D&D concerns about WotC rewriting content as everything moves to the digital realm.

Jaeger

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Re: The Hadosee controversy, what is it all about?
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2022, 04:57:30 PM »
There is a "salvery element" in the Nu-Spelljammer lore on the Hadozee that has caused many to point it out as a racist caricature of black people.

WotC "apologized" and claimed this:

Statement on the Hadozee:
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/statement-hadozee
Quote
"We wanted to acknowledge and own the inclusion of offensive material within our recent Spelljammer: Adventures in Space content. We failed you, our players and our fans, and we are truly sorry.

The campaign includes a people called Hadozee which first appeared in 1982. Regrettably, not all portions of the content relating to the Hadozee were properly vetted before appearing in our most recent release. As we continue to learn and grow through every situation, we recognize that to live our values, we have to do better.

Throughout the 50-year history of Dungeons & Dragons, some of the characters in the game have been monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world groups have been and continue to be denigrated. We understand the urgency of changing how we work to better ensure a more inclusive game.

Effective immediately, we will remove the offensive content about Hadozee in our digital versions – and these will no longer be included in future reprints of the book. Our priority is to make things right when we make mistakes. In addition, we’ve initiated a thorough internal review of the situation and will take the necessary actions as a result of that review.

We are eternally grateful for the ongoing dialog with the D&D community, and we look forward to introducing new, engaging and inclusive content to D&D for generations to come. D&D teaches that diversity is strength, for only a diverse group of adventurers can overcome the many challenges a D&D story presents. In that spirit, we are committed to making D&D as welcome and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.
"

Note that the parts in bold imply that the lore on the Hadozee was a result of using unvetted write-ups from past editions of the game...

This is a false implication however.

Because there is this:
"The envious are not satisfied with equality; they secretly yearn for superiority and revenge."

Jam The MF

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Re: The Hadosee controversy, what is it all about?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2022, 06:05:32 PM »
There is a "salvery element" in the Nu-Spelljammer lore on the Hadozee that has caused many to point it out as a racist caricature of black people.

WotC "apologized" and claimed this:

Statement on the Hadozee:
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/statement-hadozee
Quote
"We wanted to acknowledge and own the inclusion of offensive material within our recent Spelljammer: Adventures in Space content. We failed you, our players and our fans, and we are truly sorry.

The campaign includes a people called Hadozee which first appeared in 1982. Regrettably, not all portions of the content relating to the Hadozee were properly vetted before appearing in our most recent release. As we continue to learn and grow through every situation, we recognize that to live our values, we have to do better.

Throughout the 50-year history of Dungeons & Dragons, some of the characters in the game have been monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world groups have been and continue to be denigrated. We understand the urgency of changing how we work to better ensure a more inclusive game.

Effective immediately, we will remove the offensive content about Hadozee in our digital versions – and these will no longer be included in future reprints of the book. Our priority is to make things right when we make mistakes. In addition, we’ve initiated a thorough internal review of the situation and will take the necessary actions as a result of that review.

We are eternally grateful for the ongoing dialog with the D&D community, and we look forward to introducing new, engaging and inclusive content to D&D for generations to come. D&D teaches that diversity is strength, for only a diverse group of adventurers can overcome the many challenges a D&D story presents. In that spirit, we are committed to making D&D as welcome and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.
"

Note that the parts in bold imply that the lore on the Hadozee was a result of using unvetted write-ups from past editions of the game...

This is a false implication however.

Because there is this:



Look at that artwork.  It looks like he is about to palm a basketball.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2022, 06:07:07 PM by Jam The MF »
Let the Dice, Decide the Outcome.  Accept the Results.

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: The Hadosee controversy, what is it all about?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2022, 06:19:20 PM »
I like the redrawn bat yazirians from here: http://androidarts.com/RPG/StarFrontiers.htm

THE_Leopold

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Re: The Hadosee controversy, what is it all about?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2022, 07:27:37 PM »


Look at that artwork.  It looks like he is about to palm a basketball.

It's a Flying squirrel mixed with a monkey. Big deal.
NKL4Lyfe

GeekyBugle

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Re: The Hadosee controversy, what is it all about?
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2022, 07:41:17 PM »



Look at that artwork.  It looks like he is about to palm a basketball.

And/Or to bite your head off.
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