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The Gloriously Evil Drow Elves--are the Drow "Problematic?"

Started by SHARK, October 15, 2018, 05:04:21 AM

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BoxCrayonTales

#330
November 20, 2018, 08:13:24 PM
I'm currently researching for a blog post in which I criticize D&D goblins for being bland and boring compared to the amazing variety of goblins in folklore and fiction.

I intend to write similar posts about most D&D monsters, including drow. I have already finished and published several.

Mind Crime

#331
November 20, 2018, 08:45:44 PM
I never heard of drow being problematic until the internet. None of the guys I play with now had.

They just always made sense to me because of the black widow theme. Black skin / black chitin, red eyes / red hour glass, white hair / white webbing. Larger females. Maybe I'm just a shallow thinker.

Thanks for fixing my registration Pundit. Looooooooooooooooooong time lurker.

SHARK

#332
November 20, 2018, 10:09:58 PM
Quote from: Mind Crime;1065553I never heard of drow being problematic until the internet. None of the guys I play with now had.

They just always made sense to me because of the black widow theme. Black skin / black chitin, red eyes / red hour glass, white hair / white webbing. Larger females. Maybe I'm just a shallow thinker.

Thanks for fixing my registration Pundit. Looooooooooooooooooong time lurker.

Greetings!

Welcome, Mind Crime!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

BoxCrayonTales

#333
November 21, 2018, 09:41:39 AM
Quote from: Mind Crime;1065553I never heard of drow being problematic until the internet. None of the guys I play with now had.

They just always made sense to me because of the black widow theme. Black skin / black chitin, red eyes / red hour glass, white hair / white webbing. Larger females. Maybe I'm just a shallow thinker.

Thanks for fixing my registration Pundit. Looooooooooooooooooong time lurker.

They make more sense as spider-elves. Those things should have been emphasized because they went over some people's heads.

Omega

#334
November 21, 2018, 09:55:00 AM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1065615They make more sense as spider-elves. Those things should have been emphasized because they went over some people's heads.

Those things were emphasized and it still went over peoples heads or they just ignored things like that so they could have an excuse to bitch.

tenbones

#335
November 21, 2018, 10:38:45 AM
Quote from: Brand55;1065503Halfling? Now that's just ridiculous.

...Surely you meant svirfneblin, right?

Nay! Halfling! It's imported (I know a dealer). Do you realize how *hard* it is to find good halfling down in the Middledark? They like to frolic in the sun for Lolth's sake!

Svirfneblin is tough, and sinewy. Not enough fat. We like only the best. Go halfling!

tenbones

#336
November 21, 2018, 10:47:09 AM
... wait... the spider-theme for Drow wasn't emphasized enough?


Am I high again? Goddammit... I knew this whole lack of awareness thing for the last few years was me the WHOLE TIME. Dang I knew it. sorry guys, my bad. I'm just trippin.

jhkim

#337
November 21, 2018, 07:03:40 PM
Quote from: Mind Crime;1065553They just always made sense to me because of the black widow theme. Black skin / black chitin, red eyes / red hour glass, white hair / white webbing. Larger females. Maybe I'm just a shallow thinker.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1065615They make more sense as spider-elves. Those things should have been emphasized because they went over some people's heads.
Yeah, I think spider-theme is cool and flexible. It is very visible in some incarnations of the drow, but less so in others.

My current campaign has good-aligned drow, and I'm trying to stick with the spider theme while also having them be good. So they're more like friendly neighborhood spider-elves. :D

This was the short pitch I had for my pre-generated drow wizard -
QuoteThe drow are sometimes accused of too much pride, but you have much to be proud of. Your people have woven swaths of the Underdark into elegant wonderlands, and your society is a model of equality and interdependence. Within the drow's web of social relations, everyone has a part to play. On the other hand, drow can be insular from outsiders, and are often misunderstood. Short-lived races can have trouble seeing time as the drow do.

You are a delver into the mysteries of magic, and are active in breaking out of the drow's insular culture to bring their magic and learning to the rest of civilization. You are free to do this, but have not been supported the way you like. It is your hope that if the Temple of the Elements can be restored, that it will be a place where drow learning is shared with the learning of other races.
So I play up weaving and web themes - but as I detail more of their culture, I'd like to go farther with the spider-stuff while keeping the associations positive rather than creepy.

HappyDaze

#338
November 21, 2018, 08:52:20 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1065693So I play up weaving and web themes - but as I detail more of their culture, I'd like to go farther with the spider-stuff while keeping the associations positive rather than creepy.
So no extra eyes, chitin-like patches of skin, patches of urticating hair, poison bites, or any other spider-based body horror for Drow? Other than driders, of course.

Mind Crime

#339
November 21, 2018, 09:57:09 PM
Quote from: SHARK;1065559Greetings!

Welcome, Mind Crime!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Thank ya sir. And thank you for your service. May you never have to buy your own drinks on Veterans Day.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1065615They make more sense as spider-elves. Those things should have been emphasized because they went over some people's heads.

Was Lotlth/Lloth ever described as long looking like a black widow in her spider form (if anyone knows for sure)? I honestly cannot remember. I thought she had in a few writings, if not in the art, but there's been so much written I'm drawing a blank. The bodies of the driders resemble a black widow in a lot of the art.

Mind Crime

#340
November 21, 2018, 10:05:18 PM
Quote from: jhkim;1065693Yeah, I think spider-theme is cool and flexible. It is very visible in some incarnations of the drow, but less so in others.

So I play up weaving and web themes - but as I detail more of their culture, I'd like to go farther with the spider-stuff while keeping the associations positive rather than creepy.

Considering the wide variety of form and function and abilities of spiders and their webbings, there is a metric tonne of things you can play with. I grew up on a farm so common garden spiders where the bane of my existence but I always thought their webs with the lightning bolt pattern in there where cool.

Brand55

#341
November 21, 2018, 10:17:36 PM
Quote from: Mind Crime;1065706Was Lotlth/Lloth ever described as long looking like a black widow in her spider form (if anyone knows for sure)? I honestly cannot remember. I thought she had in a few writings, if not in the art, but there's been so much written I'm drawing a blank. The bodies of the driders resemble a black widow in a lot of the art.
Yeah, I've always seen her either as a drow or a half-drow, half-giant black spider. The Forgotten Realms wiki says she has the black widow's hourglass on her thorax. That's not a detail that I remember personally but it sounds about right.

Mind Crime

#342
November 21, 2018, 10:34:35 PM
Quote from: Brand55;1065708Yeah, I've always seen her either as a drow or a half-drow, half-giant black spider. The Forgotten Realms wiki says she has the black widow's hourglass on her thorax. That's not a detail that I remember personally but it sounds about right.

Just went to the wiki entry on Lloth here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolth

...never noticed before now but look at her drawing. That is a HUGE ass. She needs to do some squats.

HappyDaze

#343
November 21, 2018, 11:21:51 PM
This is from the old D&D cartoon. IIRC, it was either Lolth or based off of her.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]3059[/ATTACH]

Ratman_tf

#344
November 22, 2018, 12:36:49 AM
Quote from: Mind Crime;1065706Thank ya sir. And thank you for your service. May you never have to buy your own drinks on Veterans Day.



Was Lotlth/Lloth ever described as long looking like a black widow in her spider form (if anyone knows for sure)? I honestly cannot remember. I thought she had in a few writings, if not in the art, but there's been so much written I'm drawing a blank. The bodies of the driders resemble a black widow in a lot of the art.

Lolth in the Fiend Folio:


Queen of the Demonweb Pits:
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung
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