SPECIAL NOTICE
Malicious code was found on the site, which has been removed, but would have been able to access files and the database, revealing email addresses, posts, and encoded passwords (which would need to be decoded). However, there is no direct evidence that any such activity occurred. REGARDLESS, BE SURE TO CHANGE YOUR PASSWORDS. And as is good practice, remember to never use the same password on more than one site. While performing housekeeping, we also decided to upgrade the forums.
This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

The Fool's Errand.

Started by Levi Kornelsen, November 15, 2006, 05:31:41 PM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages1 2 3 ... 5
User actions

Levi Kornelsen

November 15, 2006, 05:31:41 PM
What the hell.

Time to attempt the really stupid.

A roleplaying game possesses the following features:
  • It is a game.  That is, it is an activity that has a structure of rules, written or not, which assist in make the activity enjoyable, typically by codifiying conflicts of various kinds.
  • In it, participants take on roles - that is, there are fictional personas, which the participants will pretend to be, verbally or actively.  It is implied that these roles exist within some kind of fiction, but no specific kind or degree of fiction is specifically required.
A story game possesses the following features:
  • It is a game.  That is, it is an activity that has a structure of rules, written or not, which assist in make the activity enjoyable, typically by codifiying conflicts of various kinds.
  • In it, participants create a joint narrative by speaking about the events of the world.  Often, they make use of characters to do so, possibly even making use of specific characters individually.
By these definitions.
  • A tabletop RPG is usually both kinds of game.
  • A MMORPG is an RPG.
  • Universalis is a Story Game, but not an RPG.
  • LARP games are RPGs, but not Story Games.
Go, on, tell me how stupid I am.

Spike

#1
November 15, 2006, 05:35:26 PM
You're stupid Levi...


Any fool could see this belongs in the Craft forum!


;)
For you the day you found a minor error in a Post by Spike and forced him to admit it, it was the greatest day of your internet life.  For me it was... Tuesday.

For the curious: Apparently, in person, I sound exactly like the Youtube Character The Nostalgia Critic.   I have no words.

[URL=https:

arminius

#2
November 15, 2006, 06:03:24 PM
The controversy is really about what it means to "take on a role", and whether "taking on a role" is ever opposed to "speaking about events of the world".

From my perspective, they're different activities. They can be combined more or less well, depending on taste, but they can easily conflict.

Kyle Aaron

#3
November 15, 2006, 06:39:36 PM
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

I don't understand why we bother trying to come up with some rigorous definition of roleplaying. It doesn't actually change the thing itself. It's like when they decided that Pluto was not a "planet" but a "dwarf planet" or whatever they called it - Pluto still kept rotating along with its little buddy hunk of ice Charon, along its long looping orbit about the Sun.

Trying to understand the essence of the thing, and how to make it better - fair enough. But some exact definition? What for?
The Viking Hat GM
Conflict, the adventure game of modern warfare
Wastrel Wednesdays, livestream with Dungeondelver

Levi Kornelsen

#4
November 15, 2006, 06:41:01 PM
Quote from: JimBobOzTrying to understand the essence of the thing, and how to make it better - fair enough. But some exact definition? What for?

Because, as lame-ass discussions go, it's better than the last debate?

Blackleaf

#5
November 15, 2006, 07:06:59 PM
I wrote a definition for a game on my blog, based on what we'd been discussing here.  An RPG is a type of game, so it's everything I discussed and more.

A LARP is not a game, and therefore not a roleplaying game.  You can play a game AT a LARP... but it's not a game itself.

Warthur

#6
November 15, 2006, 09:30:26 PM
Quote from: StuartA LARP is not a game, and therefore not a roleplaying game.  You can play a game AT a LARP... but it's not a game itself.

Ahem - from your article:

QuoteWhere a "game" differs from various rewarding activities and competitions is the way the various players interact with one another as they attempt to overcome challenges and gain rewards. A game requires interaction between the players that has an effect on the challenges of the game. This will in turn affect the rewards the game offers, and how likely each individual is to receive them. The interaction between players creates variability that makes the challenges of the game more unpredictable.

How do LARPs not fit this description?
I am no longer posting here or reading this forum because Pundit has regularly claimed credit for keeping this community active. I am sick of his bullshit for reasons I explain here and I don\'t want to contribute to anything he considers to be a personal success on his part.

I recommend The RPG Pub as a friendly place where RPGs can be discussed and where the guiding principles of moderation are "be kind to each other" and "no politics". It\'s pretty chill so far.

Blackleaf

#7
November 15, 2006, 09:40:16 PM
What is the challenge in a LARP?  Plenty of LARPs don't have any specific challenges or rewards, aside from whatever the individual participants decide to bring to the LARP.  If I can go to a LARP and do pretty much whatever I feel like, it's not a game.

Now, if there is a specific LARP-Game with challenges, interaction and rewards, then it's a game and thus a live-action roleplaying game.

Edit:

Darkon is not a game.  It's an activity.  Within that activity, there are games.  Most notably, some kind of whack people with sticks game, it seems... :)

Edit 2:

The name "LARP" is right on:  Live Action Roleplaying.  It's not a LARPG.

Warthur

#8
November 15, 2006, 09:43:23 PM
Quote from: StuartWhat is the challenge in a LARP?  Plenty of LARPs don't have any specific challenges or rewards, aside from whatever the individual participants decide to bring to the LARP.  If I can go to a LARP and do pretty much whatever I feel like, it's not a game.
Could you describe what sort of LARPs you are familiar with, please? I'm aware of multiple varieties out there that don't fit this description even slightly, but I don't want to write a long rebuttal until I'm sure I understand you.
I am no longer posting here or reading this forum because Pundit has regularly claimed credit for keeping this community active. I am sick of his bullshit for reasons I explain here and I don\'t want to contribute to anything he considers to be a personal success on his part.

I recommend The RPG Pub as a friendly place where RPGs can be discussed and where the guiding principles of moderation are "be kind to each other" and "no politics". It\'s pretty chill so far.

Blackleaf

#9
November 15, 2006, 09:48:30 PM
I'm saying:  

All games (Sports, RPGs, Card Games, the Lottery, etc) share a common set of traits.  That's what I wrote about on my site.

All RPGs would meet the criteria for being a game, and also have a common set of traits that builds on that definition.

What I'm saying is that "All LARPs" do not meet the criteria of "Game", so LARPS = RPGs wouldn't be accurate since being an RPG requires being a game first.

Specific LARPs could contain games, or even be focused enough that the LARP actually IS a game.  I guess those would be the LARPGs.

Warthur

#10
November 15, 2006, 09:50:12 PM
Quote from: StuartWhat I'm saying is that "All LARPs" do not meet the criteria of "Game", so LARPS = RPGs wouldn't be accurate since being an RPG requires being a game first.
Could you show me some examples of these, please?
I am no longer posting here or reading this forum because Pundit has regularly claimed credit for keeping this community active. I am sick of his bullshit for reasons I explain here and I don\'t want to contribute to anything he considers to be a personal success on his part.

I recommend The RPG Pub as a friendly place where RPGs can be discussed and where the guiding principles of moderation are "be kind to each other" and "no politics". It\'s pretty chill so far.

Yamo

#11
November 15, 2006, 09:50:14 PM
The only real standard for me is the absolute GM/player split, as elaborated-upon in my signature.

That's what makes an RPG.
In order to qualify as a roleplaying game, a game design must feature:

1. A traditional player/GM relationship.
2. No set story or plot.
3. No live action aspect.
4. No win conditions.

Don't like it? Too bad.

Click here to visit the Intenet's only dedicated forum for Fudge and Fate fans!

Warthur

#12
November 15, 2006, 09:52:03 PM
Quote from: YamoThe only real standard for me is the absolute GM/player split, as elaborated-upon in my signature.

That's what makes an RPG.
But I didn't think you considered LARPs to be RPGs? Every LARP I've been involved with has had this absolute split.
I am no longer posting here or reading this forum because Pundit has regularly claimed credit for keeping this community active. I am sick of his bullshit for reasons I explain here and I don\'t want to contribute to anything he considers to be a personal success on his part.

I recommend The RPG Pub as a friendly place where RPGs can be discussed and where the guiding principles of moderation are "be kind to each other" and "no politics". It\'s pretty chill so far.

Yamo

#13
November 15, 2006, 09:54:21 PM
Quote from: WarthurBut I didn't think you considered LARPs to be RPGs? Every LARP I've been involved with has had this absolute split.

Oh, yeah.

RPGs are also played around a goddamn table, not by prancing around the park in a fruity cape.

I should probably add that to my list. :)
In order to qualify as a roleplaying game, a game design must feature:

1. A traditional player/GM relationship.
2. No set story or plot.
3. No live action aspect.
4. No win conditions.

Don't like it? Too bad.

Click here to visit the Intenet's only dedicated forum for Fudge and Fate fans!

Blackleaf

#14
November 15, 2006, 09:58:17 PM
QuoteCould you show me some examples of these, please?

LARPing is big in Europe, especially Scandinavia. This link will get you started: http://www.ropecon.fi/brap/
Print
Go Up Pages1 2 3 ... 5
User actions