Quote from: WillInNewHaven;996408I never started powerful in OD&D or AD&D1 and those are the editions I have played extensively. I didn't start powerful in the 5e oneshot I played in last year. I never started powerful in RuneQuest and when SunSpear walked the length of Shadows Dance he was not dealing with an encounter exactly tailored to his abilities. The GM never thought we'd go there at that time. Shouldn't have. No one else survived.

The idea of the non-automatic ability to build a stronghold, maybe get knighted or ennobled, when you get good enough has some appeal but no one I know read the rules that way. It always looked to us like you always got promoted to Captain when you could beat up a Lieutenant and no one thought much of that.

I've always found the most fun (er and cheapest and most immediately available) stronghold is the one you take from your enemies anyway, and convert to yours! Preferably with a bunch of cool shit in it that you can loot too

Quote from: Christopher Brady;996418In the two AD&D 2e games that actually made it past level 8 that I ran, none of my players ever 'cleared any hexes' or captured a keep.  

In my own experience (all versions of D&D except OD&D) PCs often become rulers, but it's rare to see them building a keep/fortress (or temple etc) given that this takes several years. They almost always take over an existing castle, & often an existing realm. D&D lands generally have a lot of castles sitting around which are easier & faster to take over than building your own.

If I ever get to be a player of AD&D1e again, rather than DM, I think I'll take a gradual approach to strongholds. A 1st level guy after an adventure or two should be able to build a cottage out on the marches, and have a cow or two and some servants. But then of course the local goblins may be trouble, so I'll have to go out and smack them over, and then just to protect the farmstead from whoever fills the gap the goblins left, well I'm going to have to hire some men-at-arms to hang out at the farmstead, and they'll need accommodation so that's another cottage, and they'll need food so that's some more cattle and maybe sheep, and while they're there instead of just sitting around shouldn't they make some earthen ramps around the compound and put up some spikes? And so on.

In this way, the stronghold building would happen over several levels, and there'd be a place to hold treasure, and something to spend it on apart from levelling up and healing potions.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;996365There's a lot you guys don't get. But you're used to later editions, where you start powerful, only deal with encounters exactly tailored to your abilities, and provide the DM with a shopping list of magic items you want. You're not used to having to actually earn your fortune and fame by a combination of wits and luck, so you don't realise that still applies with the stronghold and lordship stuff.

Quote from: Dumarest;996415Can't wait for the outraged blowback!

Why? 'Old guy wants to feel special and pat themselves on the back about how hardcore they were back in the day' is more likely to draw pity than anger.

Quote from: Psikerlord;996425I've always found the most fun (er and cheapest and most immediately available) stronghold is the one you take from your enemies anyway, and convert to yours! Preferably with a bunch of cool shit in it that you can loot too

Yeah, but you don't want that stronghold. Look how easy it was to take from its' current owner?

Quote from: WillInNewHaven;996408The idea of the non-automatic ability to build a stronghold, maybe get knighted or ennobled, when you get good enough has some appeal but no one I know read the rules that way. It always looked to us like you always got promoted to Captain when you could beat up a Lieutenant and no one thought much of that.

One of the fun parts of TSR-era D&D (or frankly just pre-internet D&D) is that every group interpreted things differently (or just placed a different importance on different things).

Quote from: Christopher Brady;996418In the two AD&D 2e games that actually made it past level 8 that I ran, none of my players ever 'cleared any hexes' or captured a keep.  They didn't care, they just wanted to continue to explore the land, destroy evil and loot the bodies.  So honestly, this has been a learning exercise for me.  I appreciate it, thank you.

I think that was pretty common, especially by the time of 2e. There's no inherent reason why you should build a game one way (where you start as dungeon explorers and end as a leader) or the other (play either a dungeon crawler game or a king/general game). But for some editions (such as B/X, where you fighters don't get multiple attacks as they level), the reasonable chance of getting a keep and followers is one of the real perks of playing a fighter, who otherwise do fall behind compared to the magic users and clerics, ruleswise.

Again, there's no right, and later (WotC) editions indicate that the 'keep on dungeon-crawling' playstyle won out for lots of gamers. But there's a reason why the TSR-era rules are the way they are, and they work quite well for that purpose.

I don't worry too much about the official designations. They're all NPCs to me. But I guess 'hirelings' would be the term for NPCs that you're paying a fixed wage for, 'henchmen' are NPCs that are in the long-term service of a PC, and 'NPCs' is anyone else (or more specifically to the context, NPC characters who are with the party but pretty much as equals).

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;996409That's because it's a set of guidelines for people who already knew what was going on.

We didn't know what was alredy going on, but we figured it meant when you reached Name Level you had the reputation that people would flock to your banner.  We had a couple of characters establish strongholds, but it wasn't a big part of our play. Looking back this was mosty because few of our characters made it to name level.

Quote from: DavetheLost;997318We had a couple of characters establish strongholds, but it wasn't a big part of our play. Looking back this was mosty because few of our characters made it to name level.

I played and DMed a lot of D&D back in high school and college and few characters ever clawed their way up to name level. I'm surprised (and sometimes envious) at how much free time people who already had jobs, wives, and families had available to DM or play in multiple games each week.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;995773How does henchmen pledging themselves work? Do they just automatically wander up to the PC based on reputation or something and pledge?

It's assumed that the PC goes looking for prospects and if he/she should find one, makes an offer and hopes for the best. Sometimes a PC attracts one or more followers because of some great accomplishment. Then there are ringers, like spies sent to infiltrate the group and try to sabotage and kill them, or thieves who want to rob and kill them (like the mooks at the beginning of Raiders of the Lost Ark -the ones who didn't speak Hovitos) or monsters like werewolves or doppelgangers who want to eat the party.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;995793Was it possible to get tougher than average hirelings?

Yes. For example, Elmo in The Village of Hommlet is a 4th level ranger who will join the party, passing himself off as a scrub in need of money -though he could also be used as a henchman or NPC ally controlled by the DM. In my campaign there are highly skilled mercenaries for hire but they cost much more than regular ones. Or you could make NPCs who are tougher or more skilled but have other defects, like drunkenness (penalties to hit), or being lazy (sleeps on watch) or just plain stupid ("Let's build a big camp fire and put it out with water in the morning!), or annoying as hell like the old codger who knows everything in Treasure of the Sierra Madre, but drives his two partners up the wall with his goofy antics.

One more type of NPC should be mentioned: The Grateful Rescuee

In several of the published modules, there are NPCs who, if the PCs rescue them, will gladly follow them for little or no compensation (like room & board). Most of these are 0-level men-at-arms, but some have levels. I don't count these as hirelings (since they were never hired), nor do I count them as henchmen who count against the Charisma-based limit. They are a boon in and of themselves, so long as they are treated decently.