The "Pathfinder as OSR?" object got me to thinking -- the discussions at this site that revolve around definitions. It's like we have the First Council of Nicaea once a month, without the resulting consensus (though I think we have the definition of "retroclone" pegged).

So, in the spirit of metaphor, what exactly IS the church of D&D, historically (using the Christian church as our metaphor)? Moreover:

What represents orthodoxy?
Was 0e the "Catholic Church?"
Who's the Martin Luther?
Is there a Holy Trinity, and, if so, what is it's nature?
What are the "10 commandments"?
Where is Mt. Sinai?


Most importantly:
Who are the apostates? (and where are they, because I'll be they have the best parties.):-)

No. Just No.

I guess you could say that the official D&D is Catholicism.
Well, when you think about it Pathfinder is clearly Anglican.
The OSR is back to basics Protestantism.
Palladium Fantasy is Islam.
White Wolf is Hinduism.  I could probably make an argument for some kind of new age pop culture narcissim instead.
GURPS is Buddhism.

The trinity is Armor Class, Hit Dice / Levels, Vancian Casting three sacred cows that are one.
Mount Sinai is Lake Geneva Wisconsin.

The Prophets are Gary Gygax, Dave Arneson, and by official cannon rejected by all but the official line Monty Cook and Jonathon Tweet.
The Saints are the great host of other authors.  The OSR rejects all that came after the schism of 1989.
The apostates are Ken St Andre, Steve Perrin, Marc Miller, Jeff Dee and others.

Quote from: David Johansen;902569GURPS is Buddhism.

With all those rules, the only choice for GURPS-like religion is Judaism, bruh.

Quote from: CRKrueger;902563No. Just No.

Oh, come on. This is right up your alley.:-)

More importantly, who is Satan, and the pagans?

Quote from: dragoner;902578More importantly, who is Satan, and the pagans?

Easy.  Anyone who likes a game you don't like.

To hear some people talk.

Quote from: Ravenswing;902580Easy.  Anyone who likes a game you don't like.

To hear some people talk.

I more meant "satanic", ala the Slaytanic Wehrmacht carries more weight in that department than any biblical reference. It does beg the question of who is the pope of rpg's though. I would add that DitV/AW is the Mormons.

I played D&D 3rd edition as my first game. For me that would be Catholicism, all previous editions pre-Nicean proto-cults.

3.5 was the east/west split, not too different but the devil's in the detail. As a 13-14 year old I was impressed with many of the changes.

I always thought both editions were very rules heavy, and when I got back into roleplaying years later I sought out other esoteric religions, Savage World's easy access new age wicca and Ars Magica's appealing yet complex Buddhism. I haven't actually played D&D for years, but for me the simplified OGL knockoffs like True20 and similar are the reformation. Out with a ton of old orthodoxies and in with new interpretations of old mechanics.

D&D 5e is the counter-reformation. Having taken a lesson from the many branched OGL movement D&D found a way to accommodate new believers and old.

Quote from: David Johansen;902569White Wolf is Hinduism.  I could probably make an argument for some kind of new age pop culture narcissim instead.

WW isn't Hinduism and is definitely 'new age'. I started reading Mage and recognized huge chunks of it as stuff I was hearing from my crystal-hugging, Lazaris-following girlfriend at the time.

I don't see why people find this hard to understand. Pathfinder and the OSR are a result of when hobbyists have a legal path and the technical tools to create and distribute what they want. Opposed to being beholden to the economic interests of a single company.

The Pundits shrills aside, there is no barrier to anybody here to publish or distribute what they think a D&D work ought to be. Will one barrier, you have to be willing to the work of writing. Is RPGNow/DriveThru being a dick, there is Lulu, and so on.

Now what about Paizo and Pathfinder, they have been consistently the #1 or #2 sellers for the past couple of years. Aren't Pathfinder fans beholden to Paizo's economic interests? Not really, as everything that Pazio does is based on the OGL. While much of their adventures are product identify, they didn't stop adding to the open content of their actual rules. If you look at their reference document at (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/) they have added much of the text of their rules-heavy product to it. So if for whatever reason Pazio and company goes off the deep end, the somebody can pick up where they left off.

However that is digressing from the point. It doesn't matter if there is a OSR Taliban, or a Church of AD&D. They don't have the power or the means to enforce their will. The only serious threat facing the hobby and industry is what kind of community standard RPGNow/DriveThru imposes for publishing. Even then there are limits to their reach as the technology they use is available to all.

Finally because of the foundation of the OSR rest on the OGL. It will eventually have everything that can be created under the sun for classic D&D. The same for the 3.X rules. This will include worshippers of Appendix N, the Church of AD&D, and people who for whatever fucking lunatic reason view themselves as the OSR Taliban. It is the nature of true freedom to be messy. But there is no machinery of state for of any of the lunatic fringe to seize. Nobody, not the Pundit, not me, will be able to name one person that was unable to publish what they wanted and brand themselves as part of the OSR.

Traveller is Buddhism: It's all meaningless, and then you die.

Quote from: dragoner;902578More importantly, who is Satan, and the pagans?

I don't know who Satan would be, but I know that Ron Edwards is the self proclaimed OSR Messiah (or at least John The Baptist). That he has been rejected, just like Jesus was, just lends credence to his claim.

Quote from: Simlasa;902585WW isn't Hinduism and is definitely 'new age'. I started reading Mage and recognized huge chunks of it as stuff I was hearing from my crystal-hugging, Lazaris-following girlfriend at the time.

WW may be = to The Secret, then. How come we haven't seen those books on Ophra's book club?

V:tM is the Dianetics of rpg's.