I wasn't going to ask this question here, it being a hippie game and all , but I see Saphim has at least read it. I haven't picked it up yet because, even though the sticker price isn't all that much, it's direct order only. That's a real PITA/costly for us "moose-lovers" (and thanks Clash, the wife also says I'm hung like one...well not really but close enough ).

Anyway a member of our group has Lot5R 3e and he's, umm, heavily hinting that he wants to play it. From he few reviews I've seen of it sounds like it is a pretty good treatment of the series (much better buzz than the d20 and even the 2e roll-keep got). I'm OK with doing some oriental flavour stuff myself, I can dig on that. Plus one of the other players had mentioned interest in Blossoms about a month back. So there we are.

Now I know Blossoms is ment as 'real' Japan and from the era prior to that the not-Japan Lot5R is modeled on. But I'm looking for thoughts on how they compare and contrast. Further differences in tone and such.

So does anyone here have experience playing both of these? Even if you've only got some experience playing one of the other (or a prior edition of Lot5R for that matter) feel free to pipe up.

Hmmm, actually it is easier the other way round, as those games only share a few similarities. Lot5R basically is pseudo ancient japan as pop culture depicts it. Supernatural elements galore and all the standard tropes are there (black clad ninjas, samurai etc.).
Blossoms are falling on the other hand doesn't have a lot of supernatural elements. Actually exorcism and placating or calling spirits are the only ones I can think of right now. It is a lot dirtier than legends, bushi are driven by honour and shame and often have to commit heinous acts in the name of their lords.
It also gives the group more freedom than legends, you can actually play the story of an artisan clan, a court intrigue, the crew of a teahouse, bandits, villagers, bushi, buddhists, shintoists etc. etc.

I like them both, but they do totally different things. I can elaborate if you want to know more.

Quote from: SaphimI like them both, but they do totally different things. I can elaborate if you want to know more.

Go ahead and keep typing till you are tired of it.

Right now, I only have Blossoms, so I can only give that side of things...

Quote from: Zachary The FirstRight now, I only have Blossoms, so I can only give that side of things...

Have you managed to play it?  I know your group had had reservation about using Fight! instead of Bloody Vs.

P.S. Did you get it as a 'freebie' judge/submission thing?

Well, I own TBaF, unfortunately the clan burning session is all we did; then everybody got busy with travel and other stuff, and we haven't gotten back together.

I have zero interest in Lot5R; to be honest I know nothing of it other than it's a mishmash of east Asian culture. It might be interesting to know what sorts of "meta" or psychological/thematic traits and mechanics it has, as well as the specifics of the roll-and-keep system.

As Saphim says, TBaF has honor and shame as special new traits. I don't recall the exact mechanics of use--basically under some circumstances you can call on them for extra dice. They're calculated in a manner similar to Steel, i.e., via a questionnaire, and I believe they can vary in the course of the game based on your actions. Honor is how closely you adhere to the code of bushido, which is very much like unquestioning loyalty to one's lord, while shame is basically how "human" you are. Therefore the two values are somewhat inversely related, though not entirely, so they have different gauges. An example might be if your lord told you to divorce your wife so he could marry her, would you do it without hesitation? A "yes" would indicate high honor but low shame.

If you are a fan of Burning Wheel, that is the game actually works for you and your group, and you want to play a Japan game, I don't think there's any question but you should go with TBaF. I do have some qualms about the research: it's basically all drawn from Wikipedia, and there are places in the text itself where it's admitted that the game contains anachronisms from later periods, in which case I'm not really sure what the point is of choosing the Heian period other than you've got slightly different weaponry (no katanas).

Still I think this ultimately comes down to the enthusiasm that the group as a whole will bring to the table, and how much energy each party will devote to the elements of the game that they'll be responsible for.

Quote from: DwightHave you managed to play it?  I know your group had had reservation about using Fight! instead of Bloody Vs.

P.S. Did you get it as a 'freebie' judge/submission thing?

Yes and no.  We've borrowed elements from it, but I haven't gotten to run the pure-Blossom game I've wanted.  I really want to do it right, and with playtesting reall geared up now with the ENnies...

No, I haven't seen it yet.  I dunno if Luke is going to submit or not this year.  He probably should, but that's his call.

And yeah, Fight! still faces a lot of critics when I bust out the BW.  But we do what we can.

Quote from: DwightSo does anyone here have experience playing both of these? Even if you've only got some experience playing one of the other (or a prior edition of Lot5R for that matter) feel free to pipe up.

Wow, ummm... My only experience with oriental (in games) is uh... Bushido, by Phoenix Games.

This had a heavy historical approach, however was rich in detail. You could play Samurai, Ronin, Peasants, Ninja, Budoka (martial artists), Shugenja (magicians), Gakusho (wandering scholar-monks).

Doesn't have much for court intrigue, however a creative GM, can bring an awesome campaign into existence. Favorites from the early days include Shogun campaigns, Seven Samurai battles, and mythical monster hunting in ancient Japan.

Thanks GameDaddy. So anyone have the clay tablets with Bushido on them?


I kid, I kid. I'll look for the PDFs. Although the IP might have just been plain buried by the owner.  http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_2299.html

I thought it was still available.

Indeed.

But really this gets back to the "settings for systems or systems for settings" issue. Are you looking for a Japan game? Then TBaF may or may not be your best bet--or it could be Land of the Rising Sun (prolly not though, it's an old C&S variant), Land of Ninja (if you like RQ), GURPS Japan, Sengoku...etc. On the other hand you like BW, your player's psyched for L5R--I'd just go with one of those.

Quote from: Elliot WilenI thought it was still available.

Indeed.

Thanks, apparently my Google-fu is weak in the face of yours.

QuoteOn the other hand you like BW,

Well I do but there is more than one game/system out there. It wasn't me that brought up Blossoms, it was another player. I haven't read the book but all in all historical Japan isn't something that really, really grabs me. I'm OK with it, I'm just not driven on it. At this moment I'm playing 3 sessions/week, and they are all BW or derived from BW. I'm not complaining but I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to continue that, certainly not if there as a more appropriate game for what the group is looking for.**

Quoteyour player's psyched for L5R--I'd just go with one of those.

Yeah, I'm a little worried what exactly is motivating that player. He only bought the 3e book after he couldn't find his 2e book. He is also the player that recently suggested Shadowrun 3e (everyone else gave a collective "WTF? With Shadowrun 4e available?") and some other game he's played way back. It's a long story.

** On the other hand if the scenario really begs for it....I had someone suggest running a Space Marine rescue "invasion" campaign to establish a home world for a new Company by beating back a stalled Tyranids invasion. The second thing I said after "Rawk!" was "Have you read your sister's Burning Empires book yet?"  Because, well, BE is probably the closest fit for what he was describing.

Actually if you are not that psyched for ancient japan, then blossoms has another advantage. It is not particularly long and transports key elements of the setting in brief descriptions and in the rules mechanics. No endless reading of a background you don't particularly enjoy and you still get the important facts.

Saphim: But blossoms lacks some important information about it's settings... in village setting I, for example, haven't found any information about what kind of domestic animals do they have... It's mostly "flavor" information, but important one...

I don't know if legend of five rings is any better in this...

I can live with that. Especially in the age of google.

Quote from: FritzsSaphim: But blossoms lacks some important information about it's settings... in village setting I, for example, haven't found any information about what kind of domestic animals do they have... It's mostly "flavor" information, but important one...

I don't know if legend of five rings is any better in this...

I'm honestly, deeply curious. What interests you about the villager's farm animals?