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Author Topic: THAC0 the Clown in Witchlight Adventure a Dig at Pundit?  (Read 7074 times)

Mistwell

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Re: THAC0 the Clown in Witchlight Adventure a Dig at Pundit?
« Reply #90 on: October 13, 2021, 11:17:48 PM »
Bad faith post created “asking a question” to the community.

No it wasn't. I was not sure if it was intended to poke fun at Pundit or not. I am still not "sure" but my instincts say yes, and Pundit's instincts also say yes, but some others here say no. But I said I found it mildly amusing. Not sure what you view as bad faith about that? To me it was not a political topic, though obviously others think it is and I said up front fair enough.

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Smarten the fuck up. If this was a genuine question, Mistwell would not have Stanley’d Pundit’s video which discussing this same topic. There was never a question, only bait.

Oh for fuck's sake you jackass I posted this BEFORE PUNDIT POSTED HIS VIDEO. He probably found out about this topic from this thread! It's not my fault you're this late to the topic that you didn't even realize we had been discussing it for at least a day if not two before Pundit even got to it.

I am well aware of when posts were made, but if this were really a “question” whether it was two days before or minutes minutes apart, you would not have been so dismissive to his post/opinion. Just a day before you were just asking the same question right?

I was not dismissive of his opinion this is about him. I was dismissive of his "OMG this is an attack on you because it attacks me!!!" I was never asking if an attack on Pundit is an attack on everyone who likes the OSR because it attacks Pundit.

Mistwell

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Re: THAC0 the Clown in Witchlight Adventure a Dig at Pundit?
« Reply #91 on: October 13, 2021, 11:20:33 PM »
Bad faith post created “asking a question” to the community.

No it wasn't. I was not sure if it was intended to poke fun at Pundit or not. I am still not "sure" but my instincts say yes, and Pundit's instincts also say yes, but some others here say no. But I said I found it mildly amusing. Not sure what you view as bad faith about that? To me it was not a political topic, though obviously others think it is and I said up front fair enough.

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Smarten the fuck up. If this was a genuine question, Mistwell would not have Stanley’d Pundit’s video which discussing this same topic. There was never a question, only bait.

Oh for fuck's sake you jackass I posted this BEFORE PUNDIT POSTED HIS VIDEO. He probably found out about this topic from this thread! It's not my fault you're this late to the topic that you didn't even realize we had been discussing it for at least a day if not two before Pundit even got to it.

So, let me this straight, you're shilling for the module but also not shilling for the module depending on who you ask?

LOL I love the internet, you're the Schrödinger's Shill!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I would love to know how "I like this adventure for my kid and her friends" is shilling for it? How does that promote it to you, who is not a kid? It's funny, you don't accuse anyone of "shilling" for anything else they say they like around here. It's only "shilling" when you don't like the product.

I would like to know exactly where I SAID you were shilling?

Fuck me, are you an aspie too? either you share that with me or you need to chill out and improve your reading skills.

How can, "you're the Schrödinger's Shill!" be read as you saying anything other than you think I am sometimes shilling for it?

Maybe by reading the sentence above and using everything in context?

Fuck me you're an imbecile incapable of aknowledging when he's wrong.

The sentence before is, "So, let me this straight, you're shilling for the module but also not shilling for the module depending on who you ask?" Which, again, says I am shilling for it at least some of the time.

Again, how was I shilling for the adventure by saying I like it as an adventure for kids in a forum full of only adults? From what perspective is that shilling even some of the time?

GeekyBugle

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Re: THAC0 the Clown in Witchlight Adventure a Dig at Pundit?
« Reply #92 on: October 13, 2021, 11:25:36 PM »
Bad faith post created “asking a question” to the community.

No it wasn't. I was not sure if it was intended to poke fun at Pundit or not. I am still not "sure" but my instincts say yes, and Pundit's instincts also say yes, but some others here say no. But I said I found it mildly amusing. Not sure what you view as bad faith about that? To me it was not a political topic, though obviously others think it is and I said up front fair enough.

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Smarten the fuck up. If this was a genuine question, Mistwell would not have Stanley’d Pundit’s video which discussing this same topic. There was never a question, only bait.

Oh for fuck's sake you jackass I posted this BEFORE PUNDIT POSTED HIS VIDEO. He probably found out about this topic from this thread! It's not my fault you're this late to the topic that you didn't even realize we had been discussing it for at least a day if not two before Pundit even got to it.

So, let me this straight, you're shilling for the module but also not shilling for the module depending on who you ask?

LOL I love the internet, you're the Schrödinger's Shill!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I would love to know how "I like this adventure for my kid and her friends" is shilling for it? How does that promote it to you, who is not a kid? It's funny, you don't accuse anyone of "shilling" for anything else they say they like around here. It's only "shilling" when you don't like the product.

I would like to know exactly where I SAID you were shilling?

Fuck me, are you an aspie too? either you share that with me or you need to chill out and improve your reading skills.

How can, "you're the Schrödinger's Shill!" be read as you saying anything other than you think I am sometimes shilling for it?

Maybe by reading the sentence above and using everything in context?

Fuck me you're an imbecile incapable of aknowledging when he's wrong.

The sentence before is, "So, let me this straight, you're shilling for the module but also not shilling for the module depending on who you ask?" Which, again, says I am shilling for it at least some of the time.

Again, how was I shilling for the adventure by saying I like it as an adventure for kids in a forum full of only adults? From what perspective is that shilling even some of the time?

Since you're really slow, let me explain this to you in a way you'll understand:

In the thread where you have been called a shill, have I ever done so? Hint the answer is no.
In this thread, when someone acusses you of the oposite I make a coment about depending on who you ask.

Now take your head out of your ass and think, I know it's hard for you but do try.

Let me make it easier for you: I'm making a joke and you, like the imbecile jackass that you are get butthurt about something I didn't say, EVER. And the line above should have made it very clear.

But I guess being smarter than arduin doesn't really mean much.

Now fuck off snowflake.
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RPGPundit

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Re: THAC0 the Clown in Witchlight Adventure a Dig at Pundit?
« Reply #93 on: October 14, 2021, 12:13:19 AM »
Bad faith post created “asking a question” to the community.

No it wasn't. I was not sure if it was intended to poke fun at Pundit or not. I am still not "sure" but my instincts say yes, and Pundit's instincts also say yes, but some others here say no. But I said I found it mildly amusing. Not sure what you view as bad faith about that? To me it was not a political topic, though obviously others think it is and I said up front fair enough.

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Smarten the fuck up. If this was a genuine question, Mistwell would not have Stanley’d Pundit’s video which discussing this same topic. There was never a question, only bait.


Oh for fuck's sake you jackass I posted this BEFORE PUNDIT POSTED HIS VIDEO. He probably found out about this topic from this thread! It's not my fault you're this late to the topic that you didn't even realize we had been discussing it for at least a day if not two before Pundit even got to it.

You did post this before I did my video, but I didn't find out about this from you. I found out when someone alerted me to the Enworld thread where they pointed out that the clown is an attempted parody of me.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2021, 12:16:52 AM by RPGPundit »
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Omega

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Re: THAC0 the Clown in Witchlight Adventure a Dig at Pundit?
« Reply #94 on: October 14, 2021, 02:10:12 AM »
Easy. Its there in a pathetic, but sadly effective, attempt at outrage marketing.
Put in some little dig at older players bound to get some to scream. And rake in the free advertising.

Pundit is one of WOTCs biggest advertisers for them.

  Sad but likely true. It's probably why they demonize him and push his buttons so much--"this jerk hates our stuff!" has become a real method of advertising in the current climate.
Which is... odd. You'd think, what with D&D becoming more mainstream, they'd be able to ride on that and use those laurels. Why antagonize Pundit (and other old-school grognards) in such a clumsy high-school mean girl way?

Because marketing is exactly that. Clumsy and high-school mean. With all the sublty of a brick to the head. They believe, oft rightly, that the general customer base is cattle who are easy to manipulate and the ongoing outrage marketing fad says that you can easily get the cattle to look at your product by getting someone to raise hell. Free advertising at any cost.

And you can bet that if they thought they could get away with it theyd use shills to put out fake outrage.

Also with woke culture its being used to discredit opposition.

Say so and so is in a book or movie, play it up and get fans to scream. Then the product comes out and its either not there or its so buried or minor it effectively doesnt exist. The detractors and opposition now look like fools and liars.

WOTC and Disney for example have done this.

Hence any time a company makes some claim X product is oh-so woke and -inclusive- I wait to see if it really is because odds are its not how they are saying.

jhkim

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Re: THAC0 the Clown in Witchlight Adventure a Dig at Pundit?
« Reply #95 on: October 14, 2021, 03:03:03 AM »
Easy. Its there in a pathetic, but sadly effective, attempt at outrage marketing.
Put in some little dig at older players bound to get some to scream. And rake in the free advertising.

Pundit is one of WOTCs biggest advertisers for them.

I don't know about biggest, but I did buy Candlekeep Mysteries over what Pundit said here:

If Thompson got her original combat wheelchair added to official D&D, then yes, I would be wrong. Can you give a link or reference that the original combat wheelchair was added to official D&D?

The wheelchair is in Candlekeep, and EVERY dungeon for official D&D from Candlekeep onwards has been wheelchair-accessible. Also, every D&D product from candlekeep onward has featured the wheelchair in art.

I had been curious about his claim. Unfortunately, in this case it was false advertising, as I found no wheelchairs in Candlekeep Mysteries of any kind, nor were the dungeons wheelchair-accessible. The adventures are of mixed quality, but a number seem pretty interesting. I like the shorter format of adventures that make them easier to adapt into ongoing campaigns.

Spinachcat

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Re: THAC0 the Clown in Witchlight Adventure a Dig at Pundit?
« Reply #96 on: October 14, 2021, 03:37:20 AM »
RPGPundit, why haven't you done a 5e version of Arrows of Indra?

Assuming you're a regular gamer who likes D&D as it has largely been through most of its history, it absolutely IS an attack on you, Spinachat.

TSR D&D fans were kicked out of D&D in 2000. Instead of AD&D 3e (aka something akin to Castles & Crusades), we got something incompatible with the TSR editions and were shown the door LOOOOOONG before 4e came out. Once the OSR happened, the TSR fandom and new OSR fandom went their way.

I like 4e (not as D&D, but as a tactical fantasy RPG/board hybrid), but WotC's culture and business model tosses aside the previous edition fandom, so WotC shitting their own bed doesn't involve me anymore.

In fact, I want WotC to accelerate their crazy train. 

And the Human Garbage Brigade has already gleefully proclaimed that the clown absolutely is me on Twitter.

I agree (the pipe is the tell), but there's enough not-you in the depiction for the Twatterites to turn on a dime and be shocked that you imagine WotC ever thinks about you.

Make no mistake: this is Crawford, Perkins et al saying to ALL regular gamers "we have always despised you, and now we think that we don't need you anymore".

It just mirrors the cultural fragmentation in the USA (and beyond). We have a resident in the White House who has this exact attitude for half the nation. There's no future where the culture is reunited, and our hobby is a microcosm of that.

GenCon and Kickstarter are one step away from openly declaring they only exist for those who adhere to doubleplus goodthink. Hopefully, WotC will become even more vocal about who is allowed to play their elf game.


Abraxus

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Re: THAC0 the Clown in Witchlight Adventure a Dig at Pundit?
« Reply #97 on: October 14, 2021, 09:50:02 AM »
I will give credit for Mistwell for answering my questions.

Though his attempts at seeming more rational and reasonable than the rest of us seems unconvincing imo. If Wotc had used my two examples he would not n this forum of course be screaming bloody murder from the rooftops elsewhere. How Wotc is homophobic and/ or ableist for including both elements and how Wotc and anyone and everyone associated with the project should be cancelled.

As usual though we are overreacting and the unreasonable ones.

Mithgarthr

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Re: THAC0 the Clown in Witchlight Adventure a Dig at Pundit?
« Reply #98 on: October 14, 2021, 10:18:59 AM »
Come on guys.  People that dont like stupid DnD names are not real old school people anyway.

If anything they really should have call it 0CAHT the Clown

This dude gets it.  8)

jhkim

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Re: THAC0 the Clown in Witchlight Adventure a Dig at Pundit?
« Reply #99 on: October 14, 2021, 01:04:15 PM »
Let me ask again if the adventure had an NPC stuck on a wheelchair and the character not only died they died because they could not get up the bunch of stairs would you still be promoting the product.

If the adventure had a gay character written with the worst stereotypes imaginable of gay culture again would you still like and promote the adventure and suddenly claim to not care about politics.
I will give credit for Mistwell for answering my questions.

Though his attempts at seeming more rational and reasonable than the rest of us seems unconvincing imo. If Wotc had used my two examples he would not n this forum of course be screaming bloody murder from the rooftops elsewhere. How Wotc is homophobic and/ or ableist for including both elements and how Wotc and anyone and everyone associated with the project should be cancelled.

Why do you disbelieve him? Is it just because you think *everyone* is secretly this way? I think the vast majority of D&D players don't give a shit about political references in modules either way, and even if they care, they don't go screaming bloody murder on any Internet forums. They just play the game as a fun pastime.

Personally, I'm happy to discuss things here, but this is my only gaming discussion forum. I sometimes use Facebook for checking in with my personal friends and relatives, but I'm trying to reduce that out of dislike for Facebook. My other gaming discussions are with people I actually game with, and those are mostly about games we want to play.

And as an aside, the parallel to Thaco the Clown would be Esjay the Clown who guards the door, and refuses the PCs entry unless they are good - then makes outrageous demands for them to prove themselves being good, and denies them entry anyway. And no, I wouldn't particularly care about that.

jhkim

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Re: THAC0 the Clown in Witchlight Adventure a Dig at Pundit?
« Reply #100 on: October 14, 2021, 01:19:24 PM »
As an aside about music,

I mean, I get that as a parent you lose all perspective of coolness but giving them the megacorporation-approved product is like buying them the latest corporate faux boy-band record. You can do that, they'll probably like it because they've been programmed to, but if you wanted your child to be a real person and not an NPC, you'd introduce them to the Velvet Underground, or the Ramones, or the Smiths. Or hell, to Ustad Vilayat Khan, or Hamza El Din, or Vinicius de Moraes.

The idea here is that if anyone likes stuff that's mainstream popular, then they're "programmed" and "NPCs". Which is bullshit. Some people genuinely like the music of corporate boy bands like the Monkees and KISS, or more modern equivalents like BTS. Overwhelmingly, the corporations are just trying to make money by making music that mainstream people like. It often sucks because it's derivative, but not always. I like a lot of the Monkees, for example. They're inferior to the Beatles, but that doesn't mean they aren't good. The same goes for other corporate bands. I've been enjoying some of Blackpink recently, say.

I introduced my son to lots of different music. He likes some of the older stuff I grew up with, but also modern trends like many mashups, electro swing, and some K-pop -- and after his introduction, I like some of that too.

Bringing this back to RPGs, we've tried and played a lot of older games - but we also enjoy 5E.

oggsmash

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Re: THAC0 the Clown in Witchlight Adventure a Dig at Pundit?
« Reply #101 on: October 14, 2021, 01:53:24 PM »
I would like to know how the fuck can any Grognard "gatekeep" any "kid" from playing 5e?

Keeping kids from playing 5e is easy. All you need to do is not run D&D for your children or their friends. Break the chain. Make sure your kids don't have any nostalgic memories of Dungeons & Dragons that can be exploited by woke corporations.

OR I can run 5e for my kid because I like 5e and like my kid and her friends enjoying it and don't have a political agenda for my role playing games.

People on this message board seem to care a lot more about politics than gaming it seems these days, and have also lost their sense of humor in taking their politics and gaming oh so seriously.

  You can take politics seriously, or they will take you seriously.

No really, they won't. If you combine all D&D politics together, it's essentially all meaningless to my games. You guys make a huge deal about the tiniest little thing, but none of it ultimately means fuck-all for 99% of gamers in the world. And while it's always been that way to some extent (remember when the politics was replaced with Ron Edwards rants which were also meaningless to 99% of gamers?) it's gotten worse over the years. We went from a few politics threads to most of the board now being politics threads. Which has chased away many of the people who actually play RPGs and talked about the games they played, thus focusing the board on even more of the people who are here to rant about politics using the thin excuse of games, as a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.

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I guess if I agreed with all the political shifting these days I would be a lot more laid back about it.  As for taking games seriously, well, I have literally a hundred different games.

But you talk about almost none of them lately. Why do you think that is? A few years ago you'd be talking about them a lot more here. Almost all you post about these days is the latest political outrage though.  Even though you still have literally a hundred different games to talk about which are exactly the same as they were before.

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So I can simply choose to play the ones who decided either they do not hate me, or are smart enough to STFU about it.  I have a feeling there are definitely some messages a person such as yourself could see coming from game designers where you would not touch them with a 10 foot pole.   The reality is, you just do not see those messages aimed at you in 5e, so its a nothing burger for you; if I were you I might feel the same.  I am not, so I do not.  Seems pretty simple a thing to grasp to me.   So by all means, feel free  to run all the games with a clown that looks like John Wayne Gasey you like.

I don't CARE about "messages" subtly hidden in RPG material and I never did, beyond being mildly amused by some or mildly miffed I have to replace it. I just change whatever I want to change. Which I suspect is what you used to do with material you didn't care for in your games before you got caught up in the outrage loop. You used to focus more on the commonalities between gamers (and the differences between gamers and non-gamers) but all you do these days is focus on the differences between sub-groups of gamers and make sure everyone takes a side and gets upset at "the other" side of gamers.

   Cool story bro.

HappyDaze

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Re: THAC0 the Clown in Witchlight Adventure a Dig at Pundit?
« Reply #102 on: October 14, 2021, 03:59:45 PM »
Do you think Pundit will "own it" and switch his avatar to the picture of THAC0 the Clown.

oggsmash

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Re: THAC0 the Clown in Witchlight Adventure a Dig at Pundit?
« Reply #103 on: October 14, 2021, 04:02:01 PM »
Do you think Pundit will "own it" and switch his avatar to the picture of THAC0 the Clown.

  Well, I think the jon wayne gasey look (assuming that art posted is this THACO) is not one anyone should own.   

RPGPundit

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Re: THAC0 the Clown in Witchlight Adventure a Dig at Pundit?
« Reply #104 on: October 14, 2021, 04:05:56 PM »
Do you think Pundit will "own it" and switch his avatar to the picture of THAC0 the Clown.


I acknowledge what they did. I prefer to "Own" Wizards itself and all the SJWs that leaped in glee at Wizards officially telling every regular gamer that they're no longer wanted, and to fuck off from their products.

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