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Fan Forums => The RPGPundit's Own Forum => Topic started by: Rafael on September 09, 2021, 04:11:23 PM

Title: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Rafael on September 09, 2021, 04:11:23 PM
Hey,

So, I think this might be a bigger moment than it might seem: Terry Brooks, godfather of post-Tolkien fantasy, and Peter V Brett, author of the "Demon Cycle", one of the more innovative takes on "traditional" epic fantasy, discuss Peter's new novel, "The Desert Prince", and - not in those words - how SJWs are becoming a problem for fantasy literature.



[Relevant part starts around 12:00, gets more specific around 19:30, goes on until about 25:00.]

Worth a look, I think, if only because it does so much to take the bipolarity out of the debate. Like the Pundit, I have no skin in the game when it comes to US-centered political discussion, but I'd like the needless and embarrassing drama to stay out of my hobby. - So, I take this as an important moment in the debate: Here are two of the most successful writers in the genre saying loud and clear that they're not happy with recent developments. Might not be controversial enough for Kotaku, might get missed by Twitter altogether, but still - this is as direct a statement as we are going to get by two of the needle movers in the genre. That's cool, and that feels like a step into the right direction to me.

Cheers,

- R
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Rafael on September 09, 2021, 04:12:27 PM
DISCLAIMER:

The video, BTW, is a public re-upload of a private stream for fans from about a month ago. More than 60 people saw this one.

Also, I haven't read "The Desert Prince", nor do I plan to do, so any time soon - like, you know, saying this with positivity: Nothing against the book, and I like non-traditional fantasy, but - I'm reading the "Necroscope" series as my "big read" for the fall/winter, and I'm not planning ahead beyond that one. Oh, well, maybe I do.  (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/400878.Sweet_Silver_Blues) I've read part of the "Demon Cycle", though, and, in my estimation, Brett is an able writer who tells an interesting and engaging story.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Godfather Punk on September 09, 2021, 04:25:27 PM
Thanks for sharing this. Now they have 62 Views (we'll see the RPGSte effect tomorrow, I guess  :) ).

And I have discovered a new writer and have a new series to read.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Rafael on September 09, 2021, 04:39:42 PM
:) My pleasure. The "Demon Cycle" is really good - YA-ish, of course, but still engaging and fresh. Reminded me a lot of Brooks - and of David Farland, as well. There's an old anime series "Legend of Basara" that I felt goes into the same direction - and I think I'm probably not entirely out of line if I suggest that Brett might have taken the idea for his intersex character from there. The point is, though, that he seems to be a fantasy writer, through and through: For him, it's about the genre, not about social commentary and virtue signaling. Unless his future books completely suck, I think he has all the potential to go down in history as one of the great fantasy writers of our time.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Theory of Games on September 09, 2021, 08:02:32 PM
No. Pundit DOES have a decidedly Conservative viewpoint, politically. He, in my opinion, destroys

his great opinions by attaching them to the Republican Right. Because the GOP and the Left vote

along the same lines. Like Ralph Nader said, Left & Right are two sides of the same coin.

They're all BS.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Shasarak on September 09, 2021, 08:24:06 PM
I have not read any of Peters books but he sounds really slimy in this video.

But at least he made sure that 50% of his characters were female.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Trond on September 09, 2021, 11:40:58 PM
I have not read any of Peters books but he sounds really slimy in this video.

But at least he made sure that 50% of his characters were female.

I thought so too, or at least; there’s a point of view there that I have seen SO often and that makes me cringe.

 I mean, he says that he thought long and hard about a character changing sex, and at the same time it sounds like he puts males and females 50-50 in all roles from what he’s saying, “what it means to be male or female” comes up with no answer (as usual) and the evergreen “our society puts us in boxes”. I feel like saying: That’s what you came up with? Did the word “biology” ever enter I your mind? What about “hormones”? Are males physically stronger? Of course, maybe those aren’t really concerns in his fantasy world, but I bet women still somehow get pregnant. If you take those things out, and you blur what males and females do in general, then I can answer the question “what it means to be male or female” : it means absolutely nothing anymore. And to me that is the most boring stance when it comes to gender. 

Maybe he DOES address some of these things? Doesn’t sound like it from what I’m hearing.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Rafael on September 10, 2021, 03:49:26 AM
Yeah, Brett is not making himself shine here. Then again, the question is, would it be in his best interest to make a non-standard statement on the issue? - Like, what can he say that doesn't lead to his own destruction? My impression of him is - he's probably been outlining his stories for over a decade now, and he didn't foresee the late-2010s hysteria about gender. Now, he just wants to write his story as he's planned to do, without having to make concessions to the zeitgeist. Of course, that makes him look pretty disingenuous, at times, but if the gist of what he's saying is "please leave me alone with this", then I can live with that.

Personally, I obviously watched the video for Brooks, and I think it's interesting to listen to what he and some of his oldschool colleagues are saying on the issue: Always polite, but always decided. "Fantasy is not for this." - And that's cool. Brooks, has perhaps three or four books left in him before he retires completely: In this interview, and in other past ones, it's becoming increasingly clear that he doesn't give a crap about a lot of what is going on right now, and that he resents some editorial decisions that were made for Shannara in the wake of "Harry Potter" and "The Hunger Games". --- It's a joy to behold.  :P
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Mistwell on September 10, 2021, 04:05:03 PM
All I am seeing is "Not pure enough" bullshit takes.

OK then. Be the same type of puritans you hate on the SJW side I guess?
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Rafael on September 10, 2021, 05:35:59 PM
Just to clarify - I'm perfectly alright with what Brett is saying. This is a guy who counts his book sales in the millions; he's unlikely to kick a hornet's nest for no good reason.

Now, his statements are nonetheless pretty important because there aren't many writers out there who even speak about this; I think the fallout of the Isabel Fall Shitstorm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Sexually_Identify_as_an_Attack_Helicopter) might have loosened some tongues here and there, but beyond very, very lo-fi and measured comments, we have not really seen any sort of real response yet.

So, Brett's and Brooks' comments are notable, however tame or boring one might consider them. As far as I'm concerned, no need for them to say more, and no reason for anyone to demand more of them. They are clearly viewing this outside of any current political debate; that's cool, and that's how one would wish that more people saw it. The "internet thought police" is bad regardless of which team it decides to endorse.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Shasarak on September 10, 2021, 06:27:11 PM
I have not read any of Peters books but he sounds really slimy in this video.

But at least he made sure that 50% of his characters were female.

I thought so too, or at least; there’s a point of view there that I have seen SO often and that makes me cringe.

 I mean, he says that he thought long and hard about a character changing sex, and at the same time it sounds like he puts males and females 50-50 in all roles from what he’s saying, “what it means to be male or female” comes up with no answer (as usual) and the evergreen “our society puts us in boxes”. I feel like saying: That’s what you came up with? Did the word “biology” ever enter I your mind? What about “hormones”? Are males physically stronger? Of course, maybe those aren’t really concerns in his fantasy world, but I bet women still somehow get pregnant. If you take those things out, and you blur what males and females do in general, then I can answer the question “what it means to be male or female” : it means absolutely nothing anymore. And to me that is the most boring stance when it comes to gender. 

Maybe he DOES address some of these things? Doesn’t sound like it from what I’m hearing.

I was actually more interested in listening to what Terry had to say then the other guy who I am sure is a fine writer.

Now Terry has been including strong women in his books since the beginning and in his second novel the main character Amberle Elessedil was even a woman.  I know, shocking right, fourty years ago at the dawn of Fantasy you already had strong woman characters.

I was fascinated to hear Terry say that the only reason he has written so many Shannara novels was because of the fans asking him to write so many Shannara novels.  And that is a great point, when do you let a good thing go?
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Trond on September 10, 2021, 07:39:18 PM
The weird thing about the "strong women" thing is that people keep talking about it as if it is something new. When were there no strong women in literature? Gilgamesh? My favorite "trolling" response is that the real reason we keep talking about it as a novelty is that deep down we know, women aren't really that strong :D *



*Yes, I know there are more than one way to be strong, calm down, I said I was trolling
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Squidi on September 10, 2021, 07:53:34 PM
I was fascinated to hear Terry say that the only reason he has written so many Shannara novels was because of the fans asking him to write so many Shannara novels.  And that is a great point, when do you let a good thing go?
It depends on the author and the circumstance. I think having fans is a responsibility and an honor (though one I didn't personally enjoy). An author or creator who listens to their fans and gives them what they want is certainly praiseworthy - though I'd warn against stagnation, lest you wither as an artist.

My irrational fear was being a one hit wonder. The idea that you can do something people like, but they only like that one thing and nothing else you make is ever good enough - that used to keep me up at night. It's like, am I as good as people tell me that I am, or was I just lucky? I ultimately came to the conclusion that, when it came to writing, I kind of was a one hit wonder and that maybe I didn't have as much to offer my craft as I originally believed. Lucky for me, I'm good at a lot of things and interested just about everything, so I didn't feel damned to keep returning to the same well for all eternity. I would've become an empty shell of a man to constantly face my own inadequacies, day after day.

I actually considered doing something people facing somewhat recently, only to come to the realization that I would be hardcore cancelled after about 15 minutes and I've already been banned from many of the biggest forums and social media outlets (once, for saying Black Panther was a terrible movie, and once for defending HP Lovecraft - I'm such a radical), so I didn't really have an avenue to promote my work to others who might like it. It's like, I'm already pre-cancelled, so what would be the point?

That's my problem with the woke crowd. It isn't just what they destroy. It's also what they prevent from existing in the first place.

My favorite "trolling" response is that the real reason we keep talking about it as a novelty is that deep down we know, women aren't really that strong
I'm actually kind of getting sick of strong women. Not that there is anything wrong with them, but I just find it dramatically more interesting for them to be deeply flawed, or weak in some way. I want their strength to come from their weakness.

Like, Ripley is more interesting in Aliens for her PTSD and using Newt as a surrogate for her own lost daughter compared to Vasquez who just points a big gun at stuff and scowls. Ripley wouldn't be considered a strong woman today because she is traumatized, bigoted against androids, and needs to be rescued. She's strong because she overcomes these things.

But these days, it's the Captain Marvel version of strong woman where they were perfect and invincible the entire time, but it was men who were keeping them from reaching their fullest potential (which justifies them bullying everyone around them). Yawn.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Shasarak on September 10, 2021, 08:13:18 PM
My favorite "trolling" response is that the real reason we keep talking about it as a novelty is that deep down we know, women aren't really that strong
I'm actually kind of getting sick of strong women. Not that there is anything wrong with them, but I just find it dramatically more interesting for them to be deeply flawed, or weak in some way. I want their strength to come from their weakness.

I like how Brin Ohmsford had the stronger wishsong but in the end fell to the corruption of the Ildatch needing to be saved by her brother who only had the power of illusion.

Of course you would never see that story now.  Its Mary Sues all the way down.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 10, 2021, 09:31:05 PM
]I'm actually kind of getting sick of strong women. Not that there is anything wrong with them, but I just find it dramatically more interesting for them to be deeply flawed, or weak in some way. I want their strength to come from their weakness.

Like, Ripley is more interesting in Aliens for her PTSD and using Newt as a surrogate for her own lost daughter compared to Vasquez who just points a big gun at stuff and scowls. Ripley wouldn't be considered a strong woman today because she is traumatized, bigoted against androids, and needs to be rescued. She's strong because she overcomes these things.

But these days, it's the Captain Marvel version of strong woman where they were perfect and invincible the entire time, but it was men who were keeping them from reaching their fullest potential (which justifies them bullying everyone around them). Yawn.

Yep. Like the cave scene in Last Jedi, where Rey faces herself, and only sees a multitude of reflections of herself. She doesn't need anyone, and doesn't need to improve. She's already pretty much perfect and it's on everyone else to realize it.

I'd argue these aren't strong characters. They're entitled brats.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Squidi on September 11, 2021, 12:37:53 AM
Like the cave scene in Last Jedi
Haven't seen it...

Quote
I'd argue these aren't strong characters. They're entitled brats.
Well, the writers are. Captain Marvel was directed by two people who had done some television episodes nobody saw, and written by them and someone else with one writing credit to their name. How the fuck did these nobodies become the writers and directors of a $160 MILLION dollar movie? It isn't because they have special effects experience or because anything they directed had good reviews or made money.

The third person, just credited as a writer on Captain Marvel, had her first job being hired to rewrite the script for Tomb Raider. She helped with Captain Marvel. Now she's listed on Untitled Star Trek Series, Silver Saber, Gotham City Sirens, the third Sherlock Holmes movie, a Dungeons and Dragons movie, and for some absurd reason M.A.S.K. (part of the shared GI Joe cinematic universe). She wasn't even born when M.A.S.K. was a thing! She was born in 1985! I'll bet she wasn't responsible for those cringey 80s jokes in Captain Marvel.

Where the hell are these people coming from? How are they getting these high profile gigs with no, or almost no, credits to their name?

They write entitled brats, because they ARE entitled brats. While I'm sure they think they worked hard to get to their position of privilege and power, you don't jump to the head of the line without talent unless Harvey Weinstein asks you to sit next to him on the couch.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Rafael on September 11, 2021, 03:03:32 AM
I was fascinated to hear Terry say that the only reason he has written so many Shannara novels was because of the fans asking him to write so many Shannara novels.  And that is a great point, when do you let a good thing go?

From what I understand, that's not quite true: Brooks wanted to move away from "Shannara" in 1993, the end of the "Heritage" series, and after the death of Lester del Rey. Then, Landover and Shannara were first optioned as TV shows, and the development of the Shannara video game (1995) prompted the creation of the (well-done) prequel "First King".

- But after that, with 2001 "Voyage" series, Brooks goes full corporate, intentionally turning his series towards more YA marketability. With that, most of his established readers start to faze out, and Brooks start to burn out. It's clear that he wants to end the series with "Straken" (2005): The ending you get there is probably even better than the very Saberhagen-inspired endgame we get in the "Fall of Shannara" series, fifteen years later. It's difficult to distinguish between the books after that, because very good ones alternate with very poor ones.

"Dark Legacy" is clearly not born from Brooks' mind alone, and written by corporate mandate to consolidate the MTV/"Shannara Chronicles" crowd; it has the distinction of being one of the worst fantasy series ever written by one of the "big name" authors. It's certainly not fan service, it's "we need another sequel, Terry". - If you want to make yourself suffer, this weekend, check out the books on Amazon; I dare you to make it even through the first, free chapter. Like, no hyperbole - I dare you.  :D

Thankfully, Brooks stops giving a crap after that, and returns to doing his own thing: His "Shannara" novels after that are still marred by bad and publisher-mandated decisionmaking, but at least they're not terrible. The Darkling Child (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18710920-the-darkling-child) is Brooks' best book of the 2010s, and if it wasn't framed by "Dark Legacy" (terrible) and "Fall" (almost as terrible), this would be one that people talked about.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Shasarak on September 12, 2021, 05:00:01 AM
I was fascinated to hear Terry say that the only reason he has written so many Shannara novels was because of the fans asking him to write so many Shannara novels.  And that is a great point, when do you let a good thing go?

From what I understand, that's not quite true: Brooks wanted to move away from "Shannara" in 1993, the end of the "Heritage" series, and after the death of Lester del Rey. Then, Landover and Shannara were first optioned as TV shows, and the development of the Shannara video game (1995) prompted the creation of the (well-done) prequel "First King".

- But after that, with 2001 "Voyage" series, Brooks goes full corporate, intentionally turning his series towards more YA marketability. With that, most of his established readers start to faze out, and Brooks start to burn out. It's clear that he wants to end the series with "Straken" (2005): The ending you get there is probably even better than the very Saberhagen-inspired endgame we get in the "Fall of Shannara" series, fifteen years later. It's difficult to distinguish between the books after that, because very good ones alternate with very poor ones.

"Dark Legacy" is clearly not born from Brooks' mind alone, and written by corporate mandate to consolidate the MTV/"Shannara Chronicles" crowd; it has the distinction of being one of the worst fantasy series ever written by one of the "big name" authors. It's certainly not fan service, it's "we need another sequel, Terry". - If you want to make yourself suffer, this weekend, check out the books on Amazon; I dare you to make it even through the first, free chapter. Like, no hyperbole - I dare you.  :D

Thankfully, Brooks stops giving a crap after that, and returns to doing his own thing: His "Shannara" novels after that are still marred by bad and publisher-mandated decisionmaking, but at least they're not terrible. The Darkling Child (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18710920-the-darkling-child) is Brooks' best book of the 2010s, and if it wasn't framed by "Dark Legacy" (terrible) and "Fall" (almost as terrible), this would be one that people talked about.

The Dark Legacy books did seem weak but it was the Defenders of Shannara that really finished the series for me.

Maybe he was suffering from the no editor syndrome that can happen when an author gets famous.  Not enough push back on bad plot and lack of script tightening.  Who knows.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 12, 2021, 08:06:57 AM
Where the hell are these people coming from? How are they getting these high profile gigs with no, or almost no, credits to their name?

I suspect nepotism. Not that that would be unusual, but friends helping friends would mean clusters of SJW types helping each other means a specific type of people are getting into the industry and, well, here we are.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Rafael on September 12, 2021, 08:08:53 AM
The Dark Legacy books did seem weak but it was the Defenders of Shannara that really finished the series for me.

Maybe he was suffering from the no editor syndrome that can happen when an author gets famous.  Not enough push back on bad plot and lack of script tightening.  Who knows.

The first "Defenders" was actually based on the (wisely) discarded outline for the original sequel to "Sword", IIRC. I didn't like it all too much, and the third act of the book was really poorly done. The second book, though, with Reyn Frosch, and other "street level" characters, I loved like I haven't loved any of the "Shannara" books since the nineties. - Not quite sure why, just struck a chord with me.

Brooks has actually addressed the editing situation as candidly as he perhaps can: Basically, he personally and understandably gravitates towards more adult themes - the serial killer Ohmsford we get in "Fall", the negative side of the radioactive poisoning that the "Four Lands" are still suffering from, PTSD like with Cogline, or the concept of a sword-wielding monster hunter á la Witcher "The Druid's Blade".

...And more often than not, his publishers, who see "Shannara" as a primarily YA-oriented brand, and who insist on him including a couple of core elements in his books - like the "Harry Potter"-ization of the Druids in the Grianne novels, or the ersatz-Daenerys we got in "Fall" - flat out tell him that a certain idea can't be in the books. And so he discards it, and uses one of their suggestions instead.

This seems to have gotten only marginally better after the MTV series bombed, but has been the mark on Brooks' books since he renewed his contract with DelRey in around 2000. To get him "off the record" on how he really thinks about being locked in a contract where other folks can essentially dictate him what to put in his books, one of my dreams as a fanboy of fantasy literature.

--- Seems to be modern publishing practice in the US, though: The Dragonlance lawsuit from last year seemed to have a similar problem at its core - "publisher veto", like we're living in the freaking 19th century.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 12, 2021, 09:11:10 AM
So here's the thing. The woke, sjw, bigots, and zealots will eventually takeover the hobby. Not because they were smarter in any way. I personally compare their state of mind to a infirm person. The reason why they'll succeed is because you guys aren't supporting writers who just want to make games. I'm not implying you should buy my games, I'm just saying if you really wanted to keep the hobby healthy like it used to be. You shouldn't be afraid of supporting authors who believe in old school gaming. Even if they made the worst games. More and more publishers gave up morality for profits a long time ago. What's happening to the world is literally the work of satan. Start paying more attention to indie devs because if there's hope, it's with them. 
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 12, 2021, 05:15:34 PM
In Terry's defense, nothing makes 'write more of this plz' look quite as good as big bags of money.

That was what happened with Sherlock Holmes, after all. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wanted to write something else, tried to kill Sherlock off, and the publishing houses threw money at him until he gave in and wrote some more.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Shasarak on September 12, 2021, 06:29:18 PM
In Terry's defense, nothing makes 'write more of this plz' look quite as good as big bags of money.

That was what happened with Sherlock Holmes, after all. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wanted to write something else, tried to kill Sherlock off, and the publishing houses threw money at him until he gave in and wrote some more.

I always thought that it was the big bags of money so that is why it was interesting to hear that the fans clamouring for more Shannara also was a big reason why he kept on going.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Rafael on September 13, 2021, 07:00:17 AM
In Terry's defense, nothing makes 'write more of this plz' look quite as good as big bags of money.

I also think this had more to with monetary calculations than with fan demand to be honest - especially in the early phases of the internet, Shannara had a very small online following, and the reviews of the "Grianne Cycle" - "Isle Witch", and onward - were rather negative. That said, it's entirely possible that this is one of the cases when success simply wasn't televised:

Brooks is credited as selling something about 60-80 mio. books in the "Shannara" franchise, IIRC. How that is distributed between the 30-something novels and stories, another matter, but still - he has done what other writers with more vocal followings have not managed to do. Also, the pacing of the franchise is exemplary: With the exception of Weiss and Hickman, Jordan, and possibly Tad Williams, Brooks is about the only author from his era that has remained relevant in terms of success, and of fandom. - Like, sure, Glenn Cook, Ray Feist, Mercedes Lackey, Elizabeth Moon, they're luckily all still around and writing. But they have to define success differently than Brooks does it.

FWIW, Brooks has hinted several times that he has an exclusivity contract with Del Rey that is about as "Champions League"-y as you can get: DelRey has exclusive rights to all things "Shannara" - but the contract is not limited to any number of books. That suggests sales stayed quite high, up until the end of the series last year.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on September 15, 2021, 05:20:59 PM
I have not read any of Peters books but he sounds really slimy in this video.

But at least he made sure that 50% of his characters were female.

Yeah, agreed. Glad I never read any of his stuff. I watched the video and after them saying it's a make believe world he has to say that at least 50% of his characters are female. wow
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Shasarak on September 15, 2021, 05:42:35 PM
I have not read any of Peters books but he sounds really slimy in this video.

But at least he made sure that 50% of his characters were female.

Yeah, agreed. Glad I never read any of his stuff. I watched the video and after them saying it's a make believe world he has to say that at least 50% of his characters are female. wow

Playing through the Paizo adventure path my players have never had to kill so many evil white female slavers.

Because diversity!
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Trond on September 15, 2021, 06:42:44 PM

Playing through the Paizo adventure path my players have never had to kill so many evil white female slavers.

Because diversity!

Let's write a "think piece" on how disposable evil characters in entertainment have been male-dominated for too long. Suggest we go all out and make games and movies with heaps of female cannon fodder. Let's see how it goes down.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Shasarak on September 15, 2021, 06:56:18 PM

Playing through the Paizo adventure path my players have never had to kill so many evil white female slavers.

Because diversity!

Let's write a "think piece" on how disposable evil characters in entertainment have been male-dominated for too long. Suggest we go all out and make games and movies with heaps of female cannon fodder. Let's see how it goes down.

Trond you do understand that at least 50% of people are female.

So I predict sunshine and puppies!
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on September 15, 2021, 11:40:15 PM

Playing through the Paizo adventure path my players have never had to kill so many evil white female slavers.

Because diversity!

Let's write a "think piece" on how disposable evil characters in entertainment have been male-dominated for too long. Suggest we go all out and make games and movies with heaps of female cannon fodder. Let's see how it goes down.

I agree. Villians have been male dominated way too long. How bout we have a race of elves, and they're skin is so dark as to almost absorb light. And lets make them a female dominated society, almost matriarchal really. To top it off their main deity is female and demands males be subservient.....nah..... too far fetched for me even /s
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Shasarak on September 16, 2021, 12:21:16 AM

Playing through the Paizo adventure path my players have never had to kill so many evil white female slavers.

Because diversity!

Let's write a "think piece" on how disposable evil characters in entertainment have been male-dominated for too long. Suggest we go all out and make games and movies with heaps of female cannon fodder. Let's see how it goes down.

I agree. Villians have been male dominated way too long. How bout we have a race of elves, and they're skin is so dark as to almost absorb light. And lets make them a female dominated society, almost matriarchal really. To top it off their main deity is female and demands males be subservient.....nah..... too far fetched for me even /s

Do you mean like the ones based on Norse mythology?

Or is it more like the Black Orcs who are Black because Blacks are Bad and Black Orcs are really Black people?
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: KingCheops on September 16, 2021, 10:25:53 AM
I have not read any of Peters books but he sounds really slimy in this video.

But at least he made sure that 50% of his characters were female.

Yeah, agreed. Glad I never read any of his stuff. I watched the video and after them saying it's a make believe world he has to say that at least 50% of his characters are female. wow

Playing through the Paizo adventure path my players have never had to kill so many evil white female slavers.

Because diversity!

Sounds hot.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on September 16, 2021, 04:18:08 PM
Evil female slavers.

The grey hags.
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on September 19, 2021, 09:36:03 PM

Do you mean like the ones based on Norse mythology?

Or is it more like the Black Orcs who are Black because Blacks are Bad and Black Orcs are really Black people?

Lol. I like the way you think :D
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: horsesoldier on September 21, 2021, 03:02:36 PM
Hey,

So, I think this might be a bigger moment than it might seem: Terry Brooks, godfather of post-Tolkien fantasy, and Peter V Brett, author of the "Demon Cycle", one of the more innovative takes on "traditional" epic fantasy, discuss Peter's new novel, "The Desert Prince", and - not in those words - how SJWs are becoming a problem for fantasy literature.



[Relevant part starts around 12:00, gets more specific around 19:30, goes on until about 25:00.]

Worth a look, I think, if only because it does so much to take the bipolarity out of the debate. Like the Pundit, I have no skin in the game when it comes to US-centered political discussion, but I'd like the needless and embarrassing drama to stay out of my hobby. - So, I take this as an important moment in the debate: Here are two of the most successful writers in the genre saying loud and clear that they're not happy with recent developments. Might not be controversial enough for Kotaku, might get missed by Twitter altogether, but still - this is as direct a statement as we are going to get by two of the needle movers in the genre. That's cool, and that feels like a step into the right direction to me.

Cheers,

- R

This Peter Brett guy has a character named Olive Paper. Am I mishearing? That's a very dumb name. That's the name of a comical bureaucrat NPC.

And he basically just wanted to write a transvestite so he just came up with a goofy background for it. Then Terry asked if he got push back? In current year? By a publisher that has SENSITIVITY READERS? WTF. "raising two daughters that don't want to conform and making a point they don't have to"

This guy is an idiot.

Terry is a very typical midwest elder hippy type and had a very sensible view on an author being told he can't write about something he isn't, than Peter goes on and just starts saying stupid crap again. They are not coming from a good place. They're coming from a place of resentment.

Why are the modern crop of fantasy writers so mediocre?
Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: DocJones on September 21, 2021, 05:06:13 PM
I've always viewed Terry Brooks as a woke piece of crap as well as his Shanarra novels as pure crap.
I don't want to watch the video as I don't care what Terry Brooks has to say about anything.
Just thought I'd chime in though.  LOL


Title: Re: Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words
Post by: horsesoldier on September 22, 2021, 09:44:27 AM
I've always viewed Terry Brooks as a woke piece of crap as well as his Shanarra novels as pure crap.
I don't want to watch the video as I don't care what Terry Brooks has to say about anything.
Just thought I'd chime in though.  LOL

Wise man, you are missing nothing and in fact gaining by not wasting your time.