I've always been interested in the Bronze Age, Ancient Greece, the Hellenistic period, and Rome. Of course we can draw inspiration from these in a historical way, or alternatively without being too literal (perhaps including more magic or myth). Have you ever run a sword and sandal campaign that you enjoyed? Would love to hear about it.
I tried using Mazes and Minotaurs but the players were too steeped in D&D expectations. Jason and the Argonauts was the initial hook.
http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/revised.html
Quote from: Greentongue on December 02, 2022, 01:30:00 PM
I tried using Mazes and Minotaurs but the players were too steeped in D&D expectations. Jason and the Argonauts was the initial hook.
http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/revised.html
Interesting, but what's with the "older than D&D" shtick?
Sort of like Dark Sun, but weird.
The "Universe" is a natural Dyson Sphere. A hollow ball with a Star at the center. Due to this fact there is no such thing as night time. There isn't a word for it.
But, the sun is dying. It's notably dimmer and more yellow light than what it was in grandpa's time. It's hotter, drying out, getting darker, all of which mean plants are dying. It's kill or starve, tribe vs tribe, cut throat lives.
There is no metal other than gold. Weapons and armor are all leather, bone, stone, or wood.
Lastly, anything that can be made weird, go for it. Trading caravans don't cross deserts on camels. They use giant sand snails the size of elephants to pull wagons. Salt flats galore? Sailing on wheeled barges is normal-ish for crossing them.
Swords are rare. Spears are the weapon of normal people. Hoplites, mostly, but the armor is not bronze. It's ivory collected from massive animals or sea life like clams the size of suitcases and fed a statue months ago that grew a shell around that statue. Now it form fits a man.
It's an opportunity to wander around and get creative with cultures, tech, and invent new, fantastical weapons, animals, plants, and customs
Quote from: weirdguy564 on December 02, 2022, 10:29:01 PM
Sort of like Dark Sun, but weird.
The "Universe" is a natural Dyson Sphere. A hollow ball with a Star at the center. Due to this fact there is no such thing as night time. There isn't a word for it.
But, the sun is dying. It's notably dimmer and more yellow light than what it was in grandpa's time. It's hotter, drying out, getting darker, all of which mean plants are dying. It's kill or starve, tribe vs tribe, cut throat lives.
There is no metal other than gold. Weapons and armor are all leather, bone, stone, or wood.
Lastly, anything that can be made weird, go for it. Trading caravans don't cross deserts on camels. They use giant sand snails the size of elephants to pull wagons. Salt flats galore? Sailing on wheeled barges is normal-ish for crossing them.
Swords are rare. Spears are the weapon of normal people. Hoplites, mostly, but the armor is not bronze. It's ivory collected from massive animals or sea life like clams the size of suitcases and fed a statue months ago that grew a shell around that statue. Now it form fits a man.
It's an opportunity to wander around and get creative with cultures, tech, and invent new, fantastical weapons, animals, plants, and customs
Well, that really does sound different. The armor reminds me that many helmets from the Bronze Age were actually made from boar's tusks.
I've been toying with the idea of using the Mythras rules for such a campaign, but they are probably a bit too cumbersome. The setting would have Atlantis in it and would basically be inspired by writers such as Robert E. Howard and Clark Ashton Smith. However, I would also incorporate a lot from real-world mythology as well as take inspiration from Bronze Age cultures - not just those of the Mediterranean and Middle East, but also from Central and Western Europe. The finds at Nebra and the Tollense valley battlefield are especially intriguing.
Here's an article about the Tollense site:
https://www.science.org/content/article/slaughter-bridge-uncovering-colossal-bronze-age-battle
Quote from: Rhymer88 on December 03, 2022, 04:30:12 AM
I've been toying with the idea of using the Mythras rules for such a campaign, but they are probably a bit too cumbersome. The setting would have Atlantis in it and would basically be inspired by writers such as Robert E. Howard and Clark Ashton Smith. However, I would also incorporate a lot from real-world mythology as well as take inspiration from Bronze Age cultures - not just those of the Mediterranean and Middle East, but also from Central and Western Europe. The finds at Nebra and the Tollense valley battlefield are especially intriguing.
Here's an article about the Tollense site:
https://www.science.org/content/article/slaughter-bridge-uncovering-colossal-bronze-age-battle
Excellent read, thanks!
So if Mythras is too cumbersome, what direction are you leaning? Have you looked into Blood & Bronze?
Quote from: Trond on December 02, 2022, 09:25:16 PM
Interesting, but what's with the "older than D&D" shtick?
I guess the author had to do something to draw attention. Playing off of "D&D" makes it show up in searches maybe?
Still, a lot of time and effort was put into it so, it works well enough.
My home-brew setting isn't strictly Sword & Sandals but takes a lot of inspiration from Bronze Age to Antiquity level civilisations. It's set in Southeast Asia at the end of the last Ice Age. My taste leans towards taking inspiration from civilizations like the Mayan, Aztec, Harappan and Sumerians rather than the Greeks and Romans, but a lot of the material I've created is useful for Sword & Sandal type settings.
It's a setting construction kit, since there's no official lore or history, but many tools like random tables and generators to create your own city states, cultures etc.
One of the inspirations is Graham Hancock's books, he recently did a Netflix show; Ancient Apocalypse which is quite big at the moment.
From my blog:
Sundaland is the name for the Southeast Asian subcontinent that lay between current day Java, Sumatra, Thailand, Malaysia and Borneo. This area was flooded between 15,000 to 5000 BCE* as the last ice age came to an end.
Archeologists and historians working outside or on the fringes of mainstream academia hypothesise that this area could have been an early cradle of civilisation and perhaps even the real location of the fabled Atlantis.
Think of city states in jungles or along rivers, forest gardens and early agriculture, towering temples that priests use to track the motions of the stars and planets.
Economies are simple, based on trading commodities, tools and artefacts, perhaps early forms of currency. Literacy isn't common often reserved for a select group.
There are no horses. The main beasts of burden are the Elephant and perhaps the Water Buffalo. There are hundreds if not thousands of rivers that are traversed with canoes, boats and ships. The people of this land were the ancestors of the great Polynesian navigators who colonised the Pacific all the way to, Hawaii and Easter Island (perhaps even further: Genetic studies link indigenous peoples in the Amazon and Australasia).
Religions are polytheistic and regional. Priests and shamans take consciousness altering substances in order to enter trance states and communicate with spirits and gods.
Societies rise and fall within hundreds of years, cities are swallowed up by the jungle then built on top of by their successors. Cities allow for specialisation and division of labour but also lead to decadence, overextension and overuse of resources.
A touch of Sword & Sorcery. If the gods are real they are capricious and need to be appeased. There's no good or evil as we know it today. Might usually makes right. If magic exists it's mysterious and hard to control. There are possibly monsters or the last remnants of ice-age animals in the deep jungles and high mountains. And perhaps strange ancient races of humans or even non-human sentient species.
There's a link to it in my signature if you want to learn more.
Quote from: TimothyWestwind on December 03, 2022, 10:09:04 AM
There's a link to it in my signature if you want to learn more.
Your blog is quite the labor: thanks for the reminder, I had checked it out some time ago, then forgot about it... :-[
Quote from: rhialto on December 03, 2022, 10:26:15 AM
Quote from: TimothyWestwind on December 03, 2022, 10:09:04 AM
There's a link to it in my signature if you want to learn more.
Your blog is quite the labor: thanks for the reminder, I had checked it out some time ago, then forgot about it... :-[
I'm collecting the original material together for a free PDF. No idea when I'll be done though.
Quote from: TimothyWestwind on December 03, 2022, 10:41:27 AM
I'm collecting the original material together for a free PDF. No idea when I'll be done though.
Good to know: in the meantime I'll catch up on your blog.
Quote from: rhialto on December 03, 2022, 09:18:23 AM
Quote from: Rhymer88 on December 03, 2022, 04:30:12 AM
I've been toying with the idea of using the Mythras rules for such a campaign, but they are probably a bit too cumbersome. The setting would have Atlantis in it and would basically be inspired by writers such as Robert E. Howard and Clark Ashton Smith. However, I would also incorporate a lot from real-world mythology as well as take inspiration from Bronze Age cultures - not just those of the Mediterranean and Middle East, but also from Central and Western Europe. The finds at Nebra and the Tollense valley battlefield are especially intriguing.
Here's an article about the Tollense site:
https://www.science.org/content/article/slaughter-bridge-uncovering-colossal-bronze-age-battle
Excellent read, thanks!
So if Mythras is too cumbersome, what direction are you leaning? Have you looked into Blood & Bronze?
I'm not sure yet about a system. It would have to be something that is very low magic or at least focus on making magic mysterious. For example, magic couldn't be quickly cast, but would instead require lengthy rituals, so it would be useless for casting in a direct combat situation. Priestly magic would mainly focus on interpreting signs & portents because the gods "work in strange & mysterious ways." Sorcerers would excel at controlling spirits. For example, a sorcerer could send a disease spirit against his enemy, who then would gradually succumb tot the illness. Religion would focus on making sacrifices and there would be no creeds or belief systems. Anybody could make these sacrifices, not just priests, although the person who leads such a sacrifice would generally be the head of a family or the commander of a war band, etc. These sacrifices (whether of plants, animals or humans) would be performed not only to ask the gods for favors, but also to placate them and to thank them for things such as a good harvest or favorable winds on a sea voyage. Curses, the evil eye, and wards against them could be performed by basically anyone, but there would also be "experts" who can cast curses for a fee.
I have not run one, but the last campaign I played was. It used Mythos for Savage Worlds. Some of the other players struggled with not playing it like D&D, but it was fun nonetheless. Heroes receiving what a mounts to supper bennies from divine favor definitely encouraged the players to garner divine attention.
Quote from: Rhymer88 on December 04, 2022, 03:57:36 AM
I'm not sure yet about a system. It would have to be something that is very low magic or at least focus on making magic mysterious. For example, magic couldn't be quickly cast, but would instead require lengthy rituals, so it would be useless for casting in a direct combat situation. Priestly magic would mainly focus on interpreting signs & portents because the gods "work in strange & mysterious ways." Sorcerers would excel at controlling spirits. For example, a sorcerer could send a disease spirit against his enemy, who then would gradually succumb tot the illness. Religion would focus on making sacrifices and there would be no creeds or belief systems. Anybody could make these sacrifices, not just priests, although the person who leads such a sacrifice would generally be the head of a family or the commander of a war band, etc. These sacrifices (whether of plants, animals or humans) would be performed not only to ask the gods for favors, but also to placate them and to thank them for things such as a good harvest or favorable winds on a sea voyage. Curses, the evil eye, and wards against them could be performed by basically anyone, but there would also be "experts" who can cast curses for a fee.
Given that you're aware of
Mythras I assume you've also considered
RuneQuest, one not tied to Glorantha, like
RQ1/RQ2/RQ3. Along those lines I used
Elric!/Stormbringer for a similar themed Atlantean-age setting, with less complexity than even
RQ. In your case, the Sorcery could be reinterpreted as controlling spirits, and casting time could be extended. Use the open-ended sorcery system from
The Unknown East and that handles the mystery requirement (since it has no default spells, and is limited to PC imagination and Ref interpretation).
Other options were mentioned on the S&S thread. I'd be interested in what systems you've considered, since I have about a dozen or so I've looked at for my Atlantis campaigns.
Quote from: rhialto on December 04, 2022, 06:32:45 AM
Given that you're aware of Mythras I assume you've also considered RuneQuest, one not tied to Glorantha, like RQ1/RQ2/RQ3. Along those lines I used Elric!/Stormbringer for a similar themed Atlantean-age setting, with less complexity than even RQ. In your case, the Sorcery could be reinterpreted as controlling spirits, and casting time could be extended. Use the open-ended sorcery system from The Unknown East and that handles the mystery requirement (since it has no default spells, and is limited to PC imagination and Ref interpretation).
Other options were mentioned on the S&S thread. I'd be interested in what systems you've considered, since I have about a dozen or so I've looked at for my Atlantis campaigns.
Thanks, I'll check them out when I get the chance.
I don't know if this would qualify as swords and sandals, but I'm going to start a new campaign for my group in the Hyborian Age of Conan.
This is an EXCELLENT resource here: http://hyboria.xoth.net/index.htm (http://hyboria.xoth.net/index.htm) it's d20 (3e) but most of it is system neutral.
For my campaign, I'll be using the the Adv Labyrinth Lord rules. Humans are the only race allowed. Classes available is dependent on where you PC is from.
So for example, if he's from Cimmeria, the classes available will be heavily fighter-based. Cleric and druid is available. No magic-users. but if he's from Khitai, you have all of your standard classes, including MUs and illusionists. Aquilonia? most classes are available, including MUs. but there's a Knight class because the tech level of Aquilonia is equivalent to Dark Ages Europe. So there's lots of variations.
the amount of magic items will we few and far between. So it's definitely low magic.
Monsters: no faerie folk (satyrs, pixies, etc.). Prehistoric animals/dinosaurs are not uncommon. Giant sized animals are pretty common (spiders, beetles, frogs, etc). Weird creatures like Owlbears, carrion crawlers, hook horrors, etc. are rare, but do exist. I'm not sure about goblinoid creatures yet. the people of the age may refer to them as "subhumans" or "mutants". Not sure yet. Kobolds = "dog men"? Orcs = "swine folk"? dunno...
I have lots of other stuff. I'll try to post more after work.
[/quote]
I'm not sure yet about a system. It would have to be something that is very low magic or at least focus on making magic mysterious. For example, magic couldn't be quickly cast, but would instead require lengthy rituals, so it would be useless for casting in a direct combat situation. Priestly magic would mainly focus on interpreting signs & portents because the gods "work in strange & mysterious ways." Sorcerers would excel at controlling spirits. For example, a sorcerer could send a disease spirit against his enemy, who then would gradually succumb tot the illness. Religion would focus on making sacrifices and there would be no creeds or belief systems. Anybody could make these sacrifices, not just priests, although the person who leads such a sacrifice would generally be the head of a family or the commander of a war band, etc. These sacrifices (whether of plants, animals or humans) would be performed not only to ask the gods for favors, but also to placate them and to thank them for things such as a good harvest or favorable winds on a sea voyage. Curses, the evil eye, and wards against them could be performed by basically anyone, but there would also be "experts" who can cast curses for a fee.
[/quote]
Take a look at Paul Elliott's Warlords of Alexander which uses BRP (before the Big Gold Book). You could probably use most of it with the simpler OpenQuest system.
"WARLORDS OF ALEXANDER is a fantasy setting for Chaosium Inc.'s Basic Roleplaying
Game. A gamemaster need only have a copy of Call of Cthulhu, Stormbringer, or Elric!
to play. Player characters are tough and rootless mercenaries, or wandering fortune
hunters seeking a rich patron or perhaps rumour of a lost treasure hoard. The world they
inhabit is dominated by huge and powerful kingdoms, massive fragments of Alexander
the Great's short-lived world-spanning empire. His generals spawned a number of
dynasties which now make interminable war on one another. All wish to be the next
'Alexander' - and the hoplite armies pay for these fruitless ambitions in blood ..."
I'm working on something for ACKS I think would qualify as Sword & Sandal, although it has very different influences.
"Know, oh prince, that between the years when the sons of Adam fought and the rains flooded all things there was an Age undreamed of..."
The core idea is adventures between Cain killing Abel and the Flood (Genesis 4:17 to 6:8).
Instead of classic D&D races we have three "Generations of" (echoing the language of the above parts of Genesis):
1. Generations of Seth - Humans who are descending to some degree from Adam's third son. They are clerics, fighters, and paladins, but not wizards or thieves.
2. Generations of Cain - Humans who are descending to some degree from Cain. They can be any normal human class except clerics and paladins.
3. Generations of Lilith - The "elves" who are wizards, warriors, and witches.
4. Men of Renown - "when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." The children of angels (divine and fallen) and human women.
I'll probably build 1, 3, and 4 out using ACKS race construction (although elves and nobrians could fit #3 and #4).
Everything is set around a shrunken Black Sea using the Black Sea Deluge hypothesis as the future Flood.
To provide some kind of ruins and (maybe) explanations of where the people Cain met came from I'm borrowing a page from Ken Hite's GURPS Cabal and assuming Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 are not parallel accounts, but accounts of two different creations. The demons (as opposed to devils, an idea I used about a decade and a half ago in a world set in the aftermath of The Apocalypse as described in James Blish's Black Easter and The Day After Judgement) are chaotic beings out to destroy the current creation, some of which may be leftover inhabitants of the prior creation (qilip in Hite's book).
Don't have much more than that as I only came up with the idea back in October (maybe late September), but have at least one interested player so need to get off my butt and flesh it out.
Quote from: PulpHerb on December 06, 2022, 10:18:08 PM
I'm working on something for ACKS I think would qualify as Sword & Sandal, although it has very different influences.
"Know, oh prince, that between the years when the sons of Adam fought and the rains flooded all things there was an Age undreamed of..."
The core idea is adventures between Cain killing Abel and the Flood (Genesis 4:17 to 6:8).
This sounds really cool, and I'd like to see the ACKS write-ups as you develop this.