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Author Topic: Tell me about Castles and Crusades  (Read 2064 times)

JongWK

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Tell me about Castles and Crusades
« on: June 18, 2013, 10:29:49 AM »
How does it compare to 3e, 3.5e and 2e?

Can I port stuff from those editions to it?

What are the core books for it? Would you suggest any additional sourcebooks?

What kind of campaign can you run with it?
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thedungeondelver

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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2013, 10:41:06 AM »
Quote from: JongWK;663547
How does it compare to 3e, 3.5e and 2e?


Closer to 2e than 3rd edition.  It is touted as "rules lite" and as such dispenses with any skill systems.  If you can sort out the saves system of 3rd edition, you can figure out Primes.  Also: ascending A/C, so you should be OK.

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Can I port stuff from those editions to it?


2e: flip the a/c and you're fine.  3e will require stepping back monster HD quite a bit, plus ignoring a lot of skill-based challenges (as in, skill system again).

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What are the core books for it? Would you suggest any additional sourcebooks?


Castle Keeper's Guide and Player's Handbook.  Plus whatever monster books they've published thus far.

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What kind of campaign can you run with it?


Well, as someone who wrote for the "Yggsburgh" campaign (sadly unpublished), I can tell you the intention was to run a "Greyhawk-with-the-numbers-filed-off" type game, if that helps.  It seems to be most suited to low magic and more quasi-Medieval than not.  You could probably emulate a Lankhmar setting with it.
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Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

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Benoist

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Tell me about Castles and Crusades
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2013, 10:45:38 AM »
You own the Castle Keeper's Guide, TDD? How is it? Big pile of "meh" or...?

danbuter

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Tell me about Castles and Crusades
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2013, 10:46:22 AM »
You only need the PHB and the Monster Book. The Castle Keepers Guide is just optional stuff, it's more like the old Unearthed Arcana than the DMG.
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Brad

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Tell me about Castles and Crusades
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2013, 10:47:09 AM »
Quote from: Benoist;663550
You own the Castle Keeper's Guide, TDD? How is it? Big pile of "meh" or...?


Honestly, I don't care for it. Not bad or anything, but it's completely unnecessary. Monsters & Treasure is infinitely more useful.

flyerfan1991

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« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2013, 10:53:22 AM »
Just how "rules lite" is it?

Judging by the character sheets alone, it seems to be on par with DCC (and somewhere in between B/X and 1e) in terms of how rules heavy it is.

thedungeondelver

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« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2013, 11:23:19 AM »
Quote from: flyerfan1991;663555
Just how "rules lite" is it?

Judging by the character sheets alone, it seems to be on par with DCC (and somewhere in between B/X and 1e) in terms of how rules heavy it is.


I found it to be like a stripped down 2e in presentation and feel.  Like, what if we had a lot of (Mentzer) B/X and a lot of 2e classes and mixed it together.
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Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

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Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion light year across closed universe isn't big enough to encompass just how fucking far 4e is from old school.
- Kyle Aaron
A katana's just a fucking sword, you assholes! - The Shaman

thedungeondelver

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Tell me about Castles and Crusades
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2013, 11:24:26 AM »
Quote from: Benoist;663550
You own the Castle Keeper's Guide, TDD? How is it? Big pile of "meh" or...?


Never bothered.  Everything I wrote for Yggsburgh was written using AD&D as a base, then what rules changes needed to be made I did post ex facto.
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion light year across closed universe isn't big enough to encompass just how fucking far 4e is from old school.
- Kyle Aaron
A katana's just a fucking sword, you assholes! - The Shaman

BanalityBob

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Tell me about Castles and Crusades
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2013, 01:45:28 PM »
I've actually been running C&C for a few weeks for an 11, 9, and two 8 year olds (my little siblings) to introduce them to roleplaying.  Now, they're bright kids, but that's how simple the game is.  It basically has the same 6 stats as all D20 games, no skills, no feats, and set abilities for each class.  "Skill" checks and saves are rolled using the modifiers for the stat in question (occasionally adding your level), and you get favored stats that make the DCs lower.  It's really simple.  The hardest part of the game is picking out gear with starting gold.

How does it compare to 3e, 3.5e and 2e?
I've only played 2e a couple times, but it seems to have similarities, what with the classes getting only select abilities and having extremely well defined roles.  As for 3/3.5e, it shares something of a D20 system, but the rules are so much lighter and the classes are more medieval in flavor.

Can I port stuff from those editions to it?
It takes a little work, but it's pretty simple.  BAB and Hit Dice basically are the same thing (as in a 4 HD monster has a +4 to hit with C&C).  You should probably scale the monster's mean abilities down a hair, or bump it to a higher CR too, because C&C characters and monsters are less powerful than say D&D 3.5 characters and monsters.

What are the core books for it? Would you suggest any additional sourcebooks?
Player's Handbook and Monsters & Treasure.  I looked through the Castle Keeper's Guide and found that it really isn't necessary.  Those two books have everything you'd ever need to run a game.

What kind of campaign can you run with it?
It lends itself to a low-er magic high fantasy game or a medieval game (if you file out the spellcasters).  The Knight class and the Assassin class seem ill suited for dungeons.  As a whole, it looks like it would be best suited for a sandbox style game.

Benoist

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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2013, 01:45:34 PM »
Castles & Crusades is a light (comparatively light to 3rd edition D&D) d20 system game that wants to emulate the feel of TSR AD&D. It has different XP charts for different classes. It's generally loose on the rules definitions, instead of nitpicky with 5-foot steps and bullshit, it includes the classes you know from AD&D, Assassins and all, it uses ascending armour class, d20 + mods for rolls and the like.

It has a systematized, "streamlined" system for attribute rolls in the form of the SIEGE engine as they call it, which is basically rolling d20, adding a stat mod and your level if relevant against a target number that varies whether the stat involved is one of your "Primes" or not.

As a d20 system D&D heartbreaker, it ain't bad. I have my issues with the SIEGE target numbers and were I to run it, I'd probably fuck around with it before doing anything else. But it's serviceable, and relatively easy to use.

As an emulation of the AD&D game, it just doesn't replace the real thing to me.

BanalityBob

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Tell me about Castles and Crusades
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2013, 01:59:09 PM »
Yeah, I forgot to add, the target numbers do seem high.  It's 12 for a favored stat, 18 for non favored.  I dumped it to 11 and 16 so that my siblings could actually succeed every now and then at low levels.

Simon W

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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2013, 02:42:21 PM »
I've designed three rpgs loosely inspired by C&C - Tombs & Terrors, Go Fer Yer Gun! and Medieval Mysteries. They're free for download at RPGNow or available in print from LULU.COM

David Johansen

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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2013, 04:37:59 PM »
For some, I suppose, it must be the perfect D&D.  All the faults and issues of second and third edition in a single quirky package.

My big complaints would be the encumbrance system, the "siege engine", the +1 per level bonus scaling, the weapon stats (yes pretty much all of them), the combat system, and the class ability glut.

Anyhow, there are some real mechanical gems in there like hit dice tied to size and the easily levelable monsters.  I like the Bard, as presented better than any other version I've ever seen.  The system as a whole seems to "get D&D" better than anything WotC ever produced.

But on the whole, after several years of using it with the kids I got sick of the flaws and wrote my own retro-clone.  I just want more rigor and a structure that isn't obsessed with duplicating the flaws of previous editions.
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The Butcher

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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2013, 11:06:12 PM »
From a similar, older thread.


Quote from: The Butcher;390334
We've been playing a C&C campaign for a year and a half, with a huge party, consisting of human fighter, human barbarian, human wizard, elf ranger and human assassin (plus a bunch of hirelings including a few fighters and barbarians, a bard, a thief and a cleric).

The core resolution system is the SIEGE Mechanic. A SIEGE check is roll 1d20 + attribute bonus + level (for class abilities and saving throws only), to match or exceed base difficulty (12 for Prime Attributes, 18 for others) + Challenge Level (CL for short).

For example, once you establish (as per Players Handbook) that finding traps is a Wisdom Check, this means that Eric the Cleric (1st level, 18 Wisdom, Prime) needs to roll a 9+CL to find a trap, against Keefe the Thief's (1st level, 11 Wisdom, non-Prime) 18+CL.

Since niche protection takes the form of a bonus equal to your class level when dealing with a class skill, the Thief will eventually surpass the Cleric, but (in the above example) only by 9th level.

So, the SIEGE Engine results does play havoc with niche protection (outside of combat and magic, anyway). The above specifically is not an issue, because as I've mentioned, there's no Thief PC, but it could be.

Other than that, though, C&C is awesome. The class line-up is excellent! The C&C Bard is not a singing rogue with crappy magic, but a rough and ready warrior-poet. The C&C Knight is a horseman and a war-leader. The Ranger is pretty much Aragorn. The rest are what you'd expect from AD&D 1e, as is the bestiary and magic item list (Monsters & Treasure).

I'm not familiar with the published adventures (our GM's been converting stuff from dozens of other systems), but the Guide to Arms & Armor (which I picked up in the Haiti bundle) is a decent, if workmanlike expansion.

All in all, a great game, with some minor flaws but nothing dealbreaking, and some solid, fun implementations of standard D&D fare. Not quite my favorite take on D&D (I'm partial to the D&D Rules Cyclopedia myself), but a good game nonetheless.

Nowadays ACKS is my go-to D&D, but I'd love to try C&C with a little houseruling:


Quote from: The Butcher;503852
  • Drop Primes.
  • Drop suggested DCs. Use the DC table from D&D3.0e or 3.5e. Seriously.
  • Add level to ALL saves and skill checks (not just class-relevant ones).
  • Add +6 to class-relevant skill checks. Or maybe +5 or even +4.

Teazia

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« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2013, 01:31:55 AM »
Make sure to check out a riff on C&C called AD&D3e, it really rocks!  I used C&C for a time, and along with OSRIC (and HM4) it was one of the earlier retroclones out there.  IMO there are better systems now.  Interestingly enough, 5e seems to be very similar to C&C.

Also, if it is still online, the old C&C/OSRIC bloodwar is fun reading material.