This still looks awesome.  Its too bad that its apparently too complicated for them to send me a review copy.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;595891This still looks awesome.  Its too bad that its apparently too complicated for them to send me a review copy.

RPGPundit

I wish we could circumvent that shipping problem because I'm sure you'd like it a lot. I tried to see if I could act as a sort of middle-man from the US to South America but the shipping charges would be just as bad if not worse on my end. That's because of the weight of the box. After a certain weight the international shipping charges just skyrocket.

Couldn't they send a PDF copy to review?

Quote from: Fiasco;596064Couldn't they send a PDF copy to review?

They could, but Pundit doesn't do PDF reviews, as far as I know.

No, I'm afraid I don't.

I proposed at one point that they could send the books without the box, but I don't know if that would help much.

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So, Ben, at the risk of provoking you're ire: how much of the 1e DMG is in this game and is it presented in a more accessible (better organized) manner in a font of readable size? Because, man, I have the1e DMG but I cannot get past the layout and organization.

So if I had one choice for an old school game.....this, DCC, or Hackmàaster? Can you help me here? I know you like the first two and trust your judgment. Remember my rule if the game can't be played in full with no more than 5 books it's not for me.

Quote from: RPGPundit;596146No, I'm afraid I don't.

I proposed at one point that they could send the books without the box, but I don't know if that would help much.

RPGPundit

Couldn't you have it shipped to a family member in Canada and then pick it up on your next visit?

Or alternatively would shipping to the US than you be finanically feasible?

Quote from: Gib;596183So, Ben, at the risk of provoking you're ire: how much of the 1e DMG is in this game and is it presented in a more accessible (better organized) manner in a font of readable size? Because, man, I have the1e DMG but I cannot get past the layout and organization.

No ire on my part. I think the characteristics of the DMG on that front make it in part what it is, that it's really something like a dialog from one DM to another that you read chunk by chunk and then make your own choices from there as a DM, that it participates to the appeal of the book to me, but it's not the only way to do it by any means, and I certainly can see how that can confuse and even annoy some people. But the thread's not about the DMG so I'll move on.

In AS&SH the text is spaced out, the font is bigger, the organization is usable, ergonomic at the game table: each volume has a TOC, and there's a general index at the end of each manual. So for the Player's Manual say you have three TOCs, one for each volume included, and the general index at the end. It's fairly easy to navigate your way through the books with the simple, clean, black and white layout of the books. BTW I don't know how noticeable it is on the pics I posted but the books are actually smaller than letter size. About as tall as the OD&D brown booklets in fact, but also about... a good inch-and-a-half larger than an LBB.

Here's a sample page spread to give you an idea of the layout to expect.

Quote from: Marleycat;596190So if I had one choice for an old school game.....this, DCC, or Hackmàaster? Can you help me here? I know you like the first two and trust your judgment. Remember my rule if the game can't be played in full with no more than 5 books it's not for me.

I can't comment on Hackmaster. I never played, run, or even read it.

Now for the other two, they're really different types of games. I compare them on this post. So DCC really is that completely different take on the literature that participated to the original D&D game, taken in a completely different direction with super dangerous random magic, level 0 characters that are mowed down until a few make it out of the dungeon as your "real" characters, this sort of Moorcock meets Vance to smoke a bong while they play Warhammer FRP with Rolemaster's critical hit table going on throughout. It's a game that you then take to any setting you want and doesn't include an explicit default for us to use right from the book.

AS&SH by contrast is less crazy, plays on bases we know, being a clear descendant from the 0e and 1e with lots of tweaks added on to that frame, some added organization and inner logic, and so on, a set of rules that blends then with a very explicit, fairly detailed setting (Hyperborea) included with the game right off the bat, with map, Greyhawk style gazetteer in the box etc. The feel of the game is more reminiscent of the pulp magazines, of Clark Ashton Smith and Howards fiction in particular, with a strong helping of HPL mythos as you'd probably expect. It's much more subtle, or coherent if you will, in the sense that it's more about creating a smooth blend between the setting and rules and elements and having a world that is semi-believable and yet full of weird and monsters and laser guns and crabmen and stuff, while I see more DCC as a game that screams ROCK N ROLL FUCK YEAH PLAY ME DUDE by its wacko brilliance.

Also. Both games are self-contained. You really don't need anything else to play them, either of them. Now AS&SH comes in a box, so you got that feel of game right there, with the character sheets, the dice included, the fold up map and everything. DCC on the other hand comes in the form of a massive book, but also includes two brief (three four pages) sample adventures (one at level 0-1, the other at level 5, IIRC).

Two very different games really.

Quote from: Benoist;596240Here's a sample page spread to give you an idea of the layout to expect.

That looks interesting.

How do Fighting Ability, Turning Ability and Casting Ability work?
They don't look like anything that resembles D&D proper.

Fighting Ability might be a BAB, but the other two I can't figure.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;596262That looks interesting.

How do Fighting Ability, Turning Ability and Casting Ability work?
They don't look like anything that resembles D&D proper.

Fighting Ability might be a BAB, but the other two I can't figure.

It's not really a "BAB". Basically what this means is that instead of having a to-hit chart for every single class or class group, you just have one to-hit chart that references Fighting Ability instead of class level, which you cross reference with the AC of the target. It simplifies the process and allows to concentrate that information in a single place, in other words. Likewise for the Turning Ability which replaces the level of Cleric, Priest etc on the turning chart, and Casting Ability replaces your "spellcaster level" when determining such things as range and spell intensities in the game, so you don't have to substract levels to your class level when you're part of some secondary spellcasting class or whatnot. You just reference your Casting Ability and you know how that affects your spells.

Now it makes sense that the Cleric's Turning and Casting Ability is the same as his level, and I guess that the Fighter's Fighting Abiliy equals his level as well.

Nifty. A clean way to list modifiers (or varying capabilities) of very different rules subsystems in one format.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;596281Now it makes sense that the Cleric's Turning and Casting Ability is the same as his level, and I guess that the Fighter's Fighting Abiliy equals his level as well.

Nifty. A clean way to list modifiers (or varying capabilities) of very different rules subsystems in one format.

That's it yes, basically.

I took a shot of the Referee's Manual with LBB Men & Magic to compare sizes. The size of the Player's Manual is the same as the Referee's. The Manuals are thus exactly as tall as LBBs, and a little more than an inch-and-a-half wider.