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Author Topic: Technology, Engineering, and Traps!  (Read 676 times)

SHARK

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Technology, Engineering, and Traps!
« on: August 08, 2022, 02:33:38 AM »
Greetings!

I was looking over some of my DM notes recently, as I have been creating a series of dungeon locations for my Thandor campaign. I was contemplating technology, engineering, and traps.

How advanced is the technology and engineering in your fantasy campaign? Various levels of technology and advancements in engineering significantly shape what kind of traps can be created and employed. Pulleys, metal, ropes, spikes, digging, glass, advanced carpentry and masonry, springs, pressure plates, as well as chemistry. Herbalism can fill in the details there, at least partially, though advances in manufactured chemistry and alchemy provide a hugely expanded scope and variety of substances.

Of course, these kinds of considerations play heavily on the utility, performance, and contributions for classes such as the Rogue.

Have you thought about these ideas for your campaign? Having some serious thought about them can open your campaign up to a whole host of questions!

How does technology, engineering, and traps play out in your campaign? What kinds of ramifications for characters such as Rogues have presented themselves? Have you encountered any problems, inconsistencies, or other issues that frustrated you? How have you dealt or reacted to such issues?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

HappyDaze

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Re: Technology, Engineering, and Traps!
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2022, 02:40:10 AM »
In fantasy traps, the hardest part is the integration of magic and tech, specifically where one ends and the other begins. Many settings with "magitech" don't really offer great explanations either.

This can be worked into the story. I had a mechanical trap that only activated if the magical lock was bypassed. In effect, the magical lock also levitated a heavy blocks above slots within the doorframe. Try to bypass the magical lock, and the blocks drop, mechanically preventing the door from being opened.

Effete

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Re: Technology, Engineering, and Traps!
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2022, 03:19:21 AM »
How advanced is the technology and engineering in your fantasy campaign?

This is a bit like asking, "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"
The answer is wholly dependent on the confines of the setting. Rare metals (or crazy advances in metalurgy) will likely result in nigh-impossible constructions, such as tall, thin towers, massive (non-suspension) bridges, and the like. Traps are just a natural extension of the mundane.

And lets not forget the inclusion of magic. In a high-fantasy, the line between magic and technology might not exist.

Quote
Have you thought about these ideas for your campaign? Having some serious thought about them can open your campaign up to a whole host of questions!

How does technology, engineering, and traps play out in your campaign? What kinds of ramifications for characters such as Rogues have presented themselves? Have you encountered any problems, inconsistencies, or other issues that frustrated you? How have you dealt or reacted to such issues?

I tend to play things fast & loose. I decide on the degree of influence magic has on the world, and then decide if I want mundane technology to fill in any gaps. Or vice versa. I don't usually worry about providing detailed explanations of how things work, just as long as what's being described can conceivably fit into the world. I keep things vague, using terms like "materials" or "the process" rather than listing specifics. This keeps some smartass player from googling something like "metallurgy" and then calling BS on me. As long as I remain consistent (and keep the players consistent too), I don't really have any problems. The issues generally arise when players start asking about specifics. If that happens, I just ask them what they REALLY want to know (i.e., what they want to achieve), then abstract that with a knowledge roll or something.

Detailed information can be great for painting a scene or establishing tone, but don't let it become a crutch for the players to beat you with.

Steven Mitchell

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Re: Technology, Engineering, and Traps!
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2022, 08:15:53 AM »
Real world physics doesn't always work in my settings.  Sure, a lot of the effects are the same, but the causes are often different.  As much as possible, while still be playable, I try to make magic somewhat personal:  It has repeatable effects, but can't be mass-produced.  Usually, tech is the same in that respect.  I like the vibe of master craftsman teaching their secrets to a select few.

Given that preference, I'll set tech usually no later than the early medieval.  Then I'll fill in any later stuff as outright magic or a magic/tech combination--still hand-crafted.  So if I have, for one of the usual suspects, gun powder, it will be hand-crafted by alchemist involving some science, some magic, and probably a lot of hokum to conceal what they actually do from their competitors.  Different alchemists have different formulas, and it is possible to buy a bad batch from an unlicensed alchemist--or a licensed alchemist having a really bad week.  However it's done, there's no way to take the magic out entirely.  Joe Smith can't just steal the formula and mix some ingredients.

In that environment, rogue often have the attitude of a sky diver.  You want to know how the trap works?  You'd better check everything yourself.  A rogue would need a really long, trusting relationship with even a fellow party member before he'd let 'em pack his chute.

Note that all of the above is done that way to produce the kind of atmosphere and game play that I want.  I didn't start with those limits, but analyzed what I wanted and then rationalized how I could kind of, sort of make it semi-plausible without too much effort.  It's consistent within itself, but wouldn't stand up to sustained, logical investigation.

 

Krugus

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Re: Technology, Engineering, and Traps!
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2022, 08:34:17 AM »
I have one kingdom in my homebrew setting that is a cross between steampunk meets magic and its where my gunslinger class derives from.   Using Arcane magic to turn water into steam to fire a small projectile at a high rate of speed.   Revolvers that use this tech simply needs a water as a fuel source but it's the reason why ranges are short, and the damage is only at best a d6.   

On the other side of the world, a gnome discovered black powder, but they have kept the discovery to themselves.  The first gnome that discovered it died in a "tragic accident".   It was nearly 100 years later before a relative of his discovered his notes and decided to finish his work.  Once completed, he was in fear of his life thinking that another kingdom sent assassins to kill his relative and trying to steal this discovery when in reality the first guy blew himself up on accident.  No one knows about this "black powder" other than himself for the time being.   Out of fear he's created the first device that uses this black powder to which he called it the Gnomish Universal Neutralizer or G.U.N. for short and the technical name he gave it was Potassium hydroxide Injecting Sulfur Terminating Orb of Lethality or P.I.S.T.O.L for short.

So the gnome who "rediscovered" black powder is known as the first Pistol Wizard and eventually became the ruler of the gnomish kingdoms.  His family is still in power to this day ;)
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SHARK

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Re: Technology, Engineering, and Traps!
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2022, 08:55:05 PM »
How advanced is the technology and engineering in your fantasy campaign?

This is a bit like asking, "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"
The answer is wholly dependent on the confines of the setting. Rare metals (or crazy advances in metalurgy) will likely result in nigh-impossible constructions, such as tall, thin towers, massive (non-suspension) bridges, and the like. Traps are just a natural extension of the mundane.

And lets not forget the inclusion of magic. In a high-fantasy, the line between magic and technology might not exist.

Quote
Have you thought about these ideas for your campaign? Having some serious thought about them can open your campaign up to a whole host of questions!

How does technology, engineering, and traps play out in your campaign? What kinds of ramifications for characters such as Rogues have presented themselves? Have you encountered any problems, inconsistencies, or other issues that frustrated you? How have you dealt or reacted to such issues?

I tend to play things fast & loose. I decide on the degree of influence magic has on the world, and then decide if I want mundane technology to fill in any gaps. Or vice versa. I don't usually worry about providing detailed explanations of how things work, just as long as what's being described can conceivably fit into the world. I keep things vague, using terms like "materials" or "the process" rather than listing specifics. This keeps some smartass player from googling something like "metallurgy" and then calling BS on me. As long as I remain consistent (and keep the players consistent too), I don't really have any problems. The issues generally arise when players start asking about specifics. If that happens, I just ask them what they REALLY want to know (i.e., what they want to achieve), then abstract that with a knowledge roll or something.

Detailed information can be great for painting a scene or establishing tone, but don't let it become a crutch for the players to beat you with.

Greetings!

Indeed, Effete, I agree that embracing a policy of remaining "Vague" about these considerations is, as I have experienced, for the best. Not only do I not want to get sidetracked by some potentially pedantic or litigious-minded player over minutia, but I also prefer keeping things vague in the circumstance that I want to change things, or expand options and varieties, and thus not be imprisoned within the rule of my own creation! *Laughing*

I like to maintain some detail, however, which can be disclosed to particular players, and which serves as a loose foundation for their creative work, or blending such technology with alchemy or magic in at least a plausible and workable manner.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Effete

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Re: Technology, Engineering, and Traps!
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2022, 10:10:51 PM »
Indeed, Effete, I agree that embracing a policy of remaining "Vague" about these considerations is, as I have experienced, for the best. Not only do I not want to get sidetracked by some potentially pedantic or litigious-minded player over minutia, but I also prefer keeping things vague in the circumstance that I want to change things, or expand options and varieties, and thus not be imprisoned within the rule of my own creation! *Laughing*

Definitely!
I've trapped myself within my own rules plenty of times before I found a method of GMing that worked for me. I used to be a very "by the book" rules lawyer, and too many times I let the rules get in the way of the fun. For some GMs it might come more naturally, but I had a little trouble balancing the game I wanted to run with the game people wanted to play. One of the ways to add detail is to have the players describe things themselves. I typically do this if a PC lands a killing blow, asking the player to narrate how the target dies, but once in a while I apply this other things too, like the color or distinguishing marks of a particular potion.

I found that when I keep the players engage in some of the world-building, they tend to scrutinize my narration less.

Quote
I like to maintain some detail, however, which can be disclosed to particular players, and which serves as a loose foundation for their creative work, or blending such technology with alchemy or magic in at least a plausible and workable manner.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Right right. "Vague" doesn't mean bland, it just means there's room left for interpretation.

deadDMwalking

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Re: Technology, Engineering, and Traps!
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2022, 10:54:38 AM »
I like mechanical traps - the types of things you would see in an Indiana Jones movie, or Goonies.  This means ropes, pulleys, and probably some type of water-based reset mechanism.  The idea that these types of self-resetting traps require sophisticated engineering (for the period) doesn't bother me - they're like cannons in the 1400s - they exist, but they're rare and they require specialists to set up. 

The other thing that is critical to me is that traps are an encounter.  Telling someone 'you step forward, the floor opens, you take 18 damage' is BORING, which is the most damning criticism of an RPG.  A trap requires interaction.  Finding traps should usually be easy - when the players KNOW there is a trap and they need to overcome it, that's where it becomes interesting. 

In terms of what that means is that I need to think of a way that it ought to be able to work.  I want to make things as simple as possible.  Sometimes that means that traps have real weaknesses because I can't think of how to reset it 'quickly'.  A pressure plate that triggers something else opening/activating works for me; a proximity trigger or sensor needs to include a magical component. 
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all. - Peter Drucker

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Technology, Engineering, and Traps!
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2022, 12:59:45 PM »
I've thought about this as well. For me, it's generally relatively low-grade traps, tripwires, booby traps, and the like.

That said, I'd definitely use more sophisticated traps if the location warranted it. So, in my fantasy world more relatively advanced engineering certainly exists, generally, it depends on wealth and the accessibility of such knowledge.

So I'm quite happy as long as it doesn't veer into steampunk. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't think it would suit the tone of my world.

Of course, there could be some rare exceptions where there might be some more esoteric tech and trap devices. Maybe some long-lost dungeon location from a different time, etc. Like a lot Atlantis or some such.
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