IME, it is more often the party taking the hit because of one PC's actions...

But yes, I've seen it happen. The time that leaps to mind was in Fading Suns, when the group was attempting to close a portal of the Dark Between the Stars, and a PC sacrificed himself (unplanned by the group) by diving into the portal carrying the holy relic needed to seal it. Given that the PC was fairly high level, it was quite a sacrifice.

Hmm, this has happened in games I've been in often enough that I would be at a loss for picking out specific or even terribly notable ones.

Someone heading into a trap or ambush they're aware of but don't really have time to warn people about so it doesn't catch the whole group; someone tackling a deadly/dangerous task alone to complete a critical objective so the rest of the group has enough strength to carry on without them... there are lots of ways this happens.

I've been pleased to find that every time I've run into it so far, it made sense in the context of the PC's actions as well as for the party - it's usually a heroic act for helping out good friends, or sometimes a trusting one, depending on companions to save them in the end.

Quote from: onetinsoldier;307665ime, it is more often the party taking the hit because of one pc's actions...:d

qftmft!

Quote from: OneTinSoldier;307665IME, it is more often the party taking the hit because of one PC's actions...

Seen that before...Too many damn times...


As far as "taking one for the team", I'm all for the idea of heroic sacrifice by a PC. If it is done at the dramatically appropriate moment in game, that can make an entire campaign worthwhile. The only caveat here is that it should be a Player's choice to do so and not forced upon an unwilling Player as part of the plot (because it cheapens the sacrifice if there was no free will involved).

Quote from: David R;307663As usual I have no idea about the Pundit's "omega of the group" nonsense

Oh, come on! you've never seen this happen? Where there's one player who the others in the group regularly give the bum's rush to, who always gets stuck with the worst situations, or the last pick of the loot, or having to do the crappiest things? And where the player in question just takes it all?

I've seen that fairly often. I'm not saying its pretty, but don't pretend it doesn't happen.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;307711Oh, come on! you've never seen this happen? Where there's one player who the others in the group regularly give the bum's rush to, who always gets stuck with the worst situations, or the last pick of the loot, or having to do the crappiest things? And where the player in question just takes it all?

I've seen that fairly often. I'm not saying its pretty, but don't pretend it doesn't happen.

RPGPundit

Well, I saw that in the past when gaming as an adolescent. Among adults never though.
Might be because I only game with friends these days and not with gaming acquaintances. People tend to look out for their friends.

Quote from: RPGPundit;307711Oh, come on! you've never seen this happen? Where there's one player who the others in the group regularly give the bum's rush to, who always gets stuck with the worst situations, or the last pick of the loot, or having to do the crappiest things? And where the player in question just takes it all?

I've seen that fairly often. I'm not saying its pretty, but don't pretend it doesn't happen.

What Saphim said. Basically it's dysfunctional behaviour most often seen in kids or immature adults.

If I witnessed that sort of behaviour in my group I would definitely stop the game and ask the players (everyone) what the fuck was going on. It's not a dynamic which is condusive to this social activity or should be tolerated (IMO) in a group of friends. Again not saying that it does not happen in game groups or groups of friends, just that it's not something I tolerate.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: boulet;307629Did you explicitly state that you liked the idea of your character's sacrifice for the party ?

No. A player isn't supposed to order events in the campaign like getting a meal at a diner.

QuoteDid the GM actually want to get the group captured for the sake of his plot ?

Apparently. Which made it lame. It was especially lame because the system had hero points - we were desperately trying to influence the course of action, but it didn't matter what we did, what we rolled, or the hero points we spent, it went a certain way.

QuoteI'm not saying this kind of meta-game discussion should happen all the time but in this case it seems appropriate.

We had it after the game. We said, "mate, that was a total railroad, why did you let us waste our hard-earned xp by turning them into hero points?" The GM didn't reply.

It could have been awesome. Instead it was lame.

On the other hand, once I GMed a campaign where they'd just defeated an NPC - this was their great moment, they had done all they wanted to do, won the land to be ruled by one of their members, defeated their last and most dangerous foe. Proble was, the foe was the brother of one of the PCs. So when the other PC stepped forward to finish him off, the sister said "no!" He stepped forward again, raised his axe and - "sacrifical dodge! I fling myself in front of the blade!" - brought it down.

So she took one... well, not for the team, but for what was important to her. It was a very intense, awesome moment, well-remembered by all afterwards.

Of course, I could have fudged the dice rolls so she wasn't hurt. But that would have made it all lame. "Uh, he actually missed, I forgot to adjust for, um, muddy ground."

Great things happen when PCs are willing to die. No GM should steal a player's thunder.

Quote from: RPGPundit;307711Oh, come on! you've never seen this happen? Where there's one player who the others in the group regularly give the bum's rush to, who always gets stuck with the worst situations, or the last pick of the loot, or having to do the crappiest things? And where the player in question just takes it all?

I've seen that fairly often. I'm not saying its pretty, but don't pretend it doesn't happen.

RPGPundit

In Deadlands, we had the exact opposite happen.

I, as Marshall Kidd, was leader of the posse.  Tontchay was my right hand mean, and an overall mean cuss, and we did all the heavy lifting.  We also routinely picked on and ridiculed Tinhorn...who always wound up with more Fate chips (usually because he was acting as a sniper while we were getting our hands dirty) and generally coming out of things aces.

Hm.

Maybe it was just karma coming down on us.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;307745No. A player isn't supposed to order events in the campaign like getting a meal at a diner.


Apparently. Which made it lame. It was especially lame because the system had hero points - we were desperately trying to influence the course of action, but it didn't matter what we did, what we rolled, or the hero points we spent, it went a certain way.


We had it after the game. We said, "mate, that was a total railroad, why did you let us waste our hard-earned xp by turning them into hero points?" The GM didn't reply.

It could have been awesome. Instead it was lame.


Great things happen when PCs are willing to die. No GM should steal a player's thunder.

The logic you have been applying to this situation has a severe flaw. You are presuming he actually knew for certain that you wanted your character to die and wouldn't start a whinefest after character death.
From gamemastering one shots in the local fantasy club I can tell you that this is not something a gamemaster usually takes for granted.
So, going from this premise you chose the wrong strategy for your situation. The correct one would have been "You know, I wouldn't mind dying to see my comrades to safety, actually I think it would be awesome".
It is nice that you don't want to order the gamemaster to do anything, but I think while doing so you failed to communicate what you like (which is not an order, just a hint).

I had one character, a Ninja, continually get knocked down to near-death in fights, but always accomplish or assist in accomplishing the objective.

Unfortunately, that was another DTS campaign.

Quote from: Saphim;307818You are presuming he actually knew for certain that you wanted your character to die and wouldn't start a whinefest after character death.

I didn't want my character to die, I was willing that my character would die. This was established at the beginning of the campaign. It was a realistic-themed postapocalyptic world, no magic or superscience. We expected our characters might die in the course of the adventure. This was discussed and agreed on before we even designed our characters.

Quote from: SaphimFrom gamemastering one shots in the local fantasy club I can tell you that this is not something a gamemaster usually takes for granted.

It wasn't a one-shot.

Before and during a campaign of any length, players and GM communicate. Even if they don't explicitly say what they want, a good GM will figure it out. Players make these subtle comments, like, "my guy charges - hey, it might work, and if he dies I'll just make a new character." From this, a particularly insightful and cunning GM will figure out that a player won't cry like a little girl if their character dies.

So the error was 100% on the gamemasters part and 0% on yours.
My apologies for not seeing the obvious, this is the internet after all.

Well, the PCs burned another PC alive in a Vampire game. I'm not entirely sure it was 100% for the team, but...

Seanchai

I was in an Amber campaign and there was a mysterious firewall that completely isolated all three patterns (that we knew of) and the surrounding lands.
 
We tested the firewall and found that it destroyed anything that touched it and killed anything we dwarf-tossed into it. That's when Mr-take-one-for-the-team came up with his brilliant plans:
 
Plan A:
Leap into the firewall, on the off chance that like the pattern, it can be safely traversed by Dworkin's scions even though it is flamboyantly deadly to everything else.
 
Plan B: Die and curse "who ever made the shield."
 
I tried to get him to curse "our greatest enemy" or do a generic blessing on the party but NOOOooooo.....! He had his heart set on "whoever made the shield."
 
Turns out, it was his mom Lewella. The rest of the campaign was the cancerous patterns boiling away the cosmos while we melted and screamed and the (Jewish) GM doing a "Would it kill you to call your mother?" skit.
 
Good times.