when I look at SWN, I keep thinking of wanting to run a setting that is kind of like Fading Suns, but not full of suck.

RPGPundit

Quote from: The Butcher;529693This thread has made me take a closer look at SWN. And it is indeed a brilliant book.

While I loved running Traveller (with a homebrewed setting -- I dig the OTU but I love creating my own settings. I even integrated some SWN Mandate Archive material), it's been kind of a hard sell in my group; some liked it, some didn't, and I dare say no one enjoyed it as much as I did.

I really want to run a hard SF game one of these days, and since SWN is built on a D&D chassis, it might be easier for my players to buy in. I don't get a particularly hard SF vibe from the default setting, which does put quite a bit of emphasis on psionics (which I did not use at all in my Traveller game), though I suppose it can be circumvened or toned down with a bit of work.

So, the question is: what sort of game would you run with Traveller, that you wouldn't or couldn't run with SWN? (and vice versa)

I'm taking a look at Stars Without Number now.  I've never heard of it until now.  Or maybe I have, but I was doing something else at the time.  I'll see if I like it more or less than Traveller.

Quote from: The Butcher;530121Things I dislike about Traveller:

The OTU. It's too distant from the present to draw any obvious (in-game) connections to our history, not to mention 35 years of setting cruft.

The space-operatic aliens. (I am getting 2300AD mostly for the aliens)

I didn't like 2300AD when it first came out.  It used the Twilight 2000 rules and Traveller New Era rules, which I didn't like.  But GDW is no more for that.  Plus, Windows 95 finished off manual RPG gaming overall.  GW Warhammer 40K filled the vacuum that was left when Fasa Battletech and Starfleet Battles couldn't do it.  Anyway, fast-forward to now...  I still don't care about 2300AD.  I already have too much Sci-Fi covering Earthers colonizing Mars and Triton, etc.   I still love that stupid movie "Outland" though for some reason.

You mentioned about the Traveller universe being in the too distant future.  I used to panic about that 30 years ago.  Because I thought I was going to play Star Trek ('60s-style) using the 3 Traveller books.  Just exactly how "in the Far Future" did they mean?  Holy crap!

Well... I was patient.  I waited for the Traveller books 4 - 9? to come out.  And the supplement books 1 - 10?  Each mentioned a bit more about this Far Future they warned me about.  It turns out, the only books needed to get a good understanding of the Traveller Universe were the Alien books. 7 of them?  But you only needed maybe 5.  And the 2 Library Data books,  A-M and N-Z, I think.  I've had several prints of the Library Data over the years from different versions of Traveller.  But they all have the same content in them created from the mid-1980s.  Once I read those books, I was so hooked into the "Far Future".  I didn't use my own universe for the game anymore.  Nowdays, I can flip-flop from Traveller universe to generic hard Sci-Fi depending on what mood I'm in.  But I'll see what SWN does to me.

ADDED:
Ok.  I read through Stars Without Number.  It mentioned classes, and it shook me, "Oh, ya.  This is coming from a d20 design."  Then I see the six character stats, the skills, the jump drives, the ship designs, the ship operations, the sector charts...  I see Traveller in all this.  I thought it odd that the designers of the game did not even mention how heavily they borrowed from that RPG.

So.  In conclusion.

If one does not have Traveller, and they want to play "hard" sci-fi without any d20 class limitations on their characters, they should get the latest version of the Traveller Core Rulebook from Mongoose Publishing (in hardcover).  And get the Traveller Library Data book also, if playing in the Traveller universe sounds like an interesting thing to do.  The Core Rulebook is all you need to role-play any sci-fi campaign though.

Quote from: RPGPundit;530910when I look at SWN, I keep thinking of wanting to run a setting that is kind of like Fading Suns, but not full of suck.

This was one of my many ideas upon reading SWN. However, we get precious little SF gaming done in my group (as opposed to the oodles of pseudo-Medieval fantasy we've played and still play), so I'd rather not have "Middle Ages in space" when I can get straight-up undiluted SF. Nothing against the format itself.

I also think SWN would lend itself particularly well to a Star Wars game. Some conversion work would be required, though, for aliens and ships and such.

The OTU just kind of sucks as a setting, which is why I don't like it. The humans are completely surrounded. No major interstellar wars, no exploration, and no violent bug aliens to fight.

Unfortunately, many Traveller fans consider it "necessary" to play the game, even though the OTU didn't even exist for the first few years Traveller was in print.

Traveller, without any doubt. A phoney question if you ask me, SWN does not even have boardgames. So it is not a proper system, crippleware if you will, right from the start.

Quote from: Settembrini;530958Traveller, without any doubt. A phoney question if you ask me, SWN does not even have boardgames. So it is not a proper system, crippleware if you will, right from the start.

Were you joking?  I'm not sure what boardgames have to do with RPG rules being crippleware or not.

Quote from: The Butcher;529693This thread has made me take a closer look at SWN. And it is indeed a brilliant book.

While I loved running Traveller (with a homebrewed setting -- I dig the OTU but I love creating my own settings. I even integrated some SWN Mandate Archive material), it's been kind of a hard sell in my group; some liked it, some didn't, and I dare say no one enjoyed it as much as I did.

I really want to run a hard SF game one of these days, and since SWN is built on a D&D chassis, it might be easier for my players to buy in. I don't get a particularly hard SF vibe from the default setting, which does put quite a bit of emphasis on psionics (which I did not use at all in my Traveller game), though I suppose it can be circumvened or toned down with a bit of work.

So, the question is: what sort of game would you run with Traveller, that you wouldn't or couldn't run with SWN? (and vice versa)

You can run pretty much the same sort of games with either. I personally would use Traveller-

a). Because I've played Traveller for 35 years, starting with a copy bought through one of the original playtesters.

b). Because I have a distinct dislike of D20-type mechanics.

I love a lot of the fiddly little subsystems and such in SWN.

Quote from: Settembrini;530958Traveller, without any doubt. A phoney question if you ask me, SWN does not even have boardgames. So it is not a proper system, crippleware if you will, right from the start.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;531087Were you joking?  I'm not sure what boardgames have to do with RPG rules being crippleware or not.

Sometimes you need a Universal Translator to figure out what Settembrini is talking about.

My Prussian is not what it used to be.

Quote from: Settembrini;530958Traveller, without any doubt. A phoney question if you ask me, SWN does not even have boardgames. So it is not a proper system, crippleware if you will, right from the start.

What the hell do you need boardgames for? If I wanted a boardgame, I'd play D&D4.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;531101My Prussian is not what it used to be.

I didn't realize he was yours... but yes, its true.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;531087Were you joking?  I'm not sure what boardgames have to do with RPG rules being crippleware or not.

Settembrini has this über-grognard act in which everything published after 1980 (that's not GDW or Palladium) is crap.

He's a good source of information on the stuff he does like, though. When you can make sense of his sometimes deliberately cryptic, obtuse posts.

Quote from: The Butcher;531532Settembrini has this über-grognard act in which everything published after 1980 (that's GDW and Palladium) is crap.

He's a good source of information on the stuff he does like, though. When you can make sense of his sometimes deliberately cryptic, obtuse posts.

Excellent.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;531101My Prussian is not what it used to be.

Prussia has not existed in over 65+ years?