TheRPGSite

If you use your pronouns in your bio and love progressive politics then you probably already know about this but on Facebook the leftists have left the OSR and now belong to Sword Dream. I'm sure going to enjoy when this thing collapses and they start to eat each other for not being woke enough.

Because I believe people that have gender issues are inflicted with a mental disease, I'm sure I won't be welcome to play with them. Plus, I'm not white do they won't want me too. Remember that progressives like to be diversity adjacent. The Mexican nanny, the Asian coworker, the black friend. They don't actually like to live with and actually be involved with non progressive whites.

Why do most of the posts of the context "Look what's happening over here!" never contain a link so that we can see for ourselves?

Please link.

Please.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SWORDDREAM&src=typeahead_click&f=live

Not having any nostalgia for anything pre-1983 in RPGs, and being neither libertarian nor progressive, I'm pretty sure I'm a non-entrant on either the OSR or SWORDDREAM. Not that anyone cares. :)

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1090238being neither libertarian nor progressive

Personally, I think that's the problem with the whole thing.  Politics should not be a component of TTRPGs.  The staunchest diehard conservative and the most bleeding heart liberal should be able to sit at a table, or on a forum, and talk about - or play - TTRPGs without issue.  

That said, I couldn't care less if a bunch of people who don't feel they fit in go off and do their own thing.  More power to 'em, I say.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1090238https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SWORDDREAM&src=typeahead_click&f=live

Not having any nostalgia for anything pre-1983 in RPGs, and being neither libertarian nor progressive, I'm pretty sure I'm a non-entrant on either the OSR or SWORDDREAM. Not that anyone cares. :)

Jesus, that reads like a bunch of 2nd graders on meth.

Thank you for the link.

Quote from: kythri;1090245Jesus, that reads like a bunch of 2nd graders on meth.

Thank you for the link.

Yes, they are going to decolonize RPGs, fight the patriarchy, smash the fash, abolish slavery, tear down capitalism. By involving themselves in an endless spiral of purity tests self cannibalism and constant denunciation. This reminds me of Atheism+ and how they are now even less relevant than they were before.

Well, I hope they succeed in their stupid little branding enterprise, so I can more easily tell which products to avoid.

Honestly, regardless of the "politics" involved with the new movement, I was expecting this to come someday.

The OSR was more or less a "movement" (at least those who used the nebulous R part which usually meant something like "Revival" or "Renaissance"), and like all self-proclaimed movements, there is usually some change to them--growth, mutation, splintering, or dying off.  Once something gets big enough or enough time passes, you can expect this to happen.

I'm honestly surprised this didn't happen earlier, like 3-4 years ago.

Quote from: Chunkthulhu;1090243Personally, I think that's the problem with the whole thing.  Politics should not be a component of TTRPGs.  The staunchest diehard conservative and the most bleeding heart liberal should be able to sit at a table, or on a forum, and talk about - or play - TTRPGs without issue.  

That said, I couldn't care less if a bunch of people who don't feel they fit in go off and do their own thing.  More power to 'em, I say.

Agreed in principle, but sadly there's so much polarization nowadays you can probably expect this to happen.

Splintering based on ideology alone won't work however unless that takes a back seat to actual creativity.  If the creators focus on their creativity, then it will thrive.  If it's just about proving an ideological point alone, it won't survive.

This blog about the subject seems to get it.

https://graverobbersguide.blogspot.com/2019/06/a-sword-dream.html

Just started reading it and oh boy!

Take this gem " SWORD DREAM

The initialism Second Wave Of Roleplaying Design - DIY Rules Everything Around Me"

So SWORD DREAM = Second Wave Of Roleplaying Design - DIY Rules Everything Around Me

Yep, the freudian slip is there. Also the guy of the blog calls for it to be a movement, a scene not a comuniteh, that's heresy of the worst kind for the woke morons. I'm betting he will get called toxic ASAP.

EDIT: "When, inevitably, someone who claims to be part of SWORD DREAM is discovered as having done terrible, hateful things (it will happen), the reaction should be akin to that of rock n roll fans discovering that one band is problematic (i.e. decrying them and moving on), not that of sailors on one big boat discovering a leak - a "breach" in a community they fooled themselves into believing was somehow ideologically pure and/or self-sustaining, leading to panicked puritanism, cancel culture and performatively woke "discourse"."

Well he seems to know that #YesAllMaleFeminists is true and also that they are (in his own words) "performatively woke". So maybe he's not that dumb.

Quote from: kythri;1090262Well, I hope they succeed in their stupid little branding enterprise, so I can more easily tell which products to avoid.

So do we all my friend.

Should have been called  Turd Nightmare a title which would have made as much sense as SWORD DREAM.

You should all know White Liberals are more Woke than Black people in regards to Racism (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7828h8vpoUc).

Whites are the new 'standard' for racial activism. Obviously, black & brown people are fkn lames.

So-called minorities need whites to explain how they may or may not be oppressed, even with RPGs.

Quote from: Theory of Games;1090297You should all know White Liberals are more Woke than Black people in regards to Racism (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7828h8vpoUc).

Whites are the new 'standard' for racial activism. Obviously, black & brown people are fkn lames.

So-called minorities need whites to explain how they may or may not be oppressed, even with RPGs.

Baizuos shouldering the new white man's burden

Meh. This thing will be the gaming scenes equivalent of #metoo for a brief time, then will fade into irrelevance and obscurity.

Trawled through the tweets (https://twitter.com/hashtag/sworddream) until I came across this gem (https://archive.is/NjQd4):

QuotePATH of the EMOTIVE BLADE

...

The Blade Special: When you share a moment of emotional intimacy with your weapon,

If this becomes the only Meme #SwordDream spawns, it'll be worth it.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1090238https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SWORDDREAM&src=typeahead_click&f=live

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AdolescentAncientIberianemeraldlizard-size_restricted.gif)

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1090328If this becomes the only Meme #SwordDream spawns, it'll be worth it.

Sword Ream :eek:

Quote from: Chunkthulhu;1090243Personally, I think that's the problem with the whole thing.  Politics should not be a component of TTRPGs.  The staunchest diehard conservative and the most bleeding heart liberal should be able to sit at a table, or on a forum, and talk about - or play - TTRPGs without issue.  

And we used to.

Quote from: Crusader X;1090348Sword Ream :eek:

Be sure to apply Sword Cream before you Sword Ream!

Sounds like something out of Oglaf.

Quote from: kythri;1090262Well, I hope they succeed in their stupid little branding enterprise, so I can more easily tell which products to avoid.

Yep.

Quote from: 3rik;1090330(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AdolescentAncientIberianemeraldlizard-size_restricted.gif)

This right here is precious.

This seems like some kind of spoof, like Meninism.
I'm not sure what to make of it, yet.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1090366This seems like some kind of spoof, like Meninism.
I'm not sure what to make of it, yet.

Nope, meninis exists only as a spoof of feminism, this is not a spoof, they are deadly serious and already outlining who would be allowed into their comuniteh.

I can not see a drawback to having all of the toxic Sword Lords all writing under the same label.

Quote from: Shasarak;1090373I can not see a drawback to having all of the toxic Sword Lords all writing under the same label.

Neither do I because...  Well other people said it better than myself.  Let the sjws play with their swords.  We the OSR hobby will weave our magics just fine without them.

Aaaaaaand to the surprise of no one with two brain cells to rub together the purity spiral already started, go watch Pundit's latest video for the delicious and hilarious details.

Second Wave Of RPG Design * DIY Rules Everything Around Me

Jesus, that's pathetic wankery.

Quote from: Theory of Games;1090297You should all know White Liberals are more Woke than Black people in regards to Racism (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7828h8vpoUc).

Whites are the new 'standard' for racial activism. Obviously, black & brown people are fkn lames.

So-called minorities need whites to explain how they may or may not be oppressed, even with RPGs.

Its been that way for a good while now. Its allmost never the actual minority complaining about some media outrage. Its these White Knight types defending us for us because obviously we are too stupid to be offended. Sure you will get a few actually from the minority piping up. But 99% of the time they seem to be falling over themselves to act even more retarded than their white SJW 'protectors' which just re-inforces the perception that they need 'protecting' and are raging morons.

Round and round it goes. We are never going to be rid of these loons. Especially this virulent new strain.

I found this little gem while reading the Twitter threads:

Quote from: JammiWhy do weapons have stats, but emotions don't? Why do I have physical defenses but not relationship ones?

Even I know the answer to this is that it's just not OSR in nature to do so. Even something like Call of Cthulhu with its madness meters, Pendragon with its whatever-they're-called(I don't have or play Pendragon), and GURPS with its skills-for-everything-including-social-stuff had their non-combat stat stuff in addition to a usually-robust combat system. Not in place of.

I feel that if we're talking about a movement in response to the OSR which is supposed to be "basically the OSR with the toxic elements removed"(lulz), then any such questions should be about the OSR games and the original games they're building on. Does this person simply not grasp that there are tons of games out there that do exactly what they're talking about, but that since they're mostly post-2010 they're just about 25+ years too late to be a valid starting point for an OSR project? What's stopping this Jammi person from making exactly the game they're talking about without the OSR label?

This is so, so dumb. It's like within 24 hours they're not even pretending to be wanting to make OSR-compatible stuff in a "safe environment"(again, lulz). They just want to make something more modern that's already got a label - storygames - with a new, even more "special" label. Just so dumb.

Sword Dreams is a load of utter bullshit.

The OSR needs LESS politics infused into it, not more.

And that goes for both the SJW's at RPGnet and Alt-Right faggots like Varg Vikernes (MYFAROG is not OSR, but it's a lot closer to "old school" gaming than whatever the fuck Sword Dream is supposed to be)

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1090393Sword Dreams is a load of utter bullshit.

The OSR needs LESS politics infused into it, not more.

And that goes for both the SJW's at RPGnet and Alt-Right faggots like Varg Vikernes (MYFAROG is not OSR, but it's a lot closer to "old school" gaming than whatever the fuck Sword Dream is supposed to be)

Who the fuck cares about Varg? He's a funny meme to everyone besides maybe 0,001% of people.

Uh, so I missed this because I spent my weekend actually gaming and actually going out to protest against a destructive government plan. And to think I could have just tweeted out some hashtag. :rolleyes:

Anyway, the fewer ideological crazies in my toxic OSR games, the better, so all in all, this is good news. Let them leave and never invite them back.

Quote from: kanePL;1090394Who the fuck cares about Varg? He's a funny meme to everyone besides maybe 0,001% of people.

This is also on point. Like FATAL, MYFAROG is a meme which only exists due to its online infamy, and has no relevance whatsoever to actual face-to-face gaming groups.

Quote from: kythri;1090377Second Wave Of RPG Design * DIY Rules Everything Around Me

Jesus, that's pathetic wankery.

Here is what I don't get: it isn't the second wave of RPG design. Depending on how we want to break down the RPG design waves, it's wave 4-6.

Quote from: Lurtch;1090404Here is what I don't get: it isn't the second wave of RPG design. Depending on how we want to break down the RPG design waves, it's wave 4-6.

Exactly.  OSR wasn't the first wave, or even the third wave, so this?  Wankery.

I had to stop reading the twattle of idiocy on Twitter regarding #sworddream.  "My sword dream is a happy world with bunnies and cotton candy, where everyone is nice to each other, and we all (except for the Nazis) participate in hug exercises where we purge the world of evil via our collective hand holding!"

Hahaha what the hell is all this then? Have these people entirely lost their minds or have I simply lost mine?

Even after reading a bunch of Twatter shit, a blogpost and Pundit's video I still don't understand why this changes anything, influences game design, or how it matters in any way, shape or form; at least, aside from creating a new red flag for RPGs that seems to be the equivalent of "danger hair," as people have mentioned previously.

In fact, if the entire point is that people can design these games any way they want to in a "safe, inclusive" environment, with explicitly no "SWORD DREAM" genre or community or really any shared characteristics between the games or creators whatsoever (since they're apparently intended to be judged 'individually' rather than as a community, probably so once they start finding the sex offenders they can do their best not to completely implode), then... what the fuck is the point of having it as some label? Saying you won't accept "bigotry" or whatever? Then why not just say that?

What is the fucking point?! :confused:

In any case doc, I'm ready for my brain-go-good pills now...

Quote from: Melan;1090400Uh, so I missed this because I spent my weekend actually gaming.

I spent most of my weekend at the Evergreen Tabletop Expo playing X-Wing Miniatures. (I did terribly.)

Quote from: kanePL;1090394Who the fuck cares about Varg? He's a funny meme to everyone besides maybe 0,001% of people.

I know, I'm just using Varg as a right-wing example of a guy who tries to shoehorn abhorrent political agendas into RPG's.

Although I did have a brief YouTube spat with Varg and his idiotic followers were the reason I had to delete my YouTube channel since my brother is an Antifa gang leader with a heavy online presence, and I didn't want some Vargtard putting two and two together and finding out my address.

I mean, I'm not afraid of Vargtards and I don't care about any feuds between the Alt-Right and my dipshit abusive brother (who has been doxed before by /pol/ and a few other places) but Mom panicked and I had to shut things down to calm her down.

The OSR as anything other than a group of three words to use in a discussion is fucking cancer, and now these people have given it ebola.  The people who "created" the OSR as a "cause" should be chased off a cliff by a group of picts wielding stone axes.  The "Sword Dreams" idiots should be captured and burned at the stake by the same group of picts.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1090453I know, I'm just using Varg as a right-wing example of a guy who tries to shoehorn abhorrent political agendas into RPG's.

Although I did have a brief YouTube spat with Varg and his idiotic followers were the reason I had to delete my YouTube channel since my brother is an Antifa gang leader with a heavy online presence, and I didn't want some Vargtard putting two and two together and finding out my address.

Oh crap, considering Varg's history and Antifa involvement I can imagine the things can go in a bad direction.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1090358This right here is precious.

The mashup version is appropriate to this topic, too:

(https://media.giphy.com/media/7ZgBm32jWGn72/giphy.gif)

I often think of this image while reading about SJW's, for some reason. :)

Quote from: thedungeondelver;1090457The OSR as anything other than a group of three words to use in a discussion is fucking cancer, and now these people have given it ebola.  The people who "created" the OSR as a "cause" should be chased off a cliff by a group of picts wielding stone axes.  The "Sword Dreams" idiots should be captured and burned at the stake by the same group of picts.

No need for anyone to burn. Just let em play - in whatever form that may take - among themselves and when one inevitably offends another, they'll tear themselves to shreds. All we need is popcorn and a view to watch from!

Just a reminder to keep the discussion focused on gaming and not on general politics. Thanks!

Quote from: Lurtch;1090404Here is what I don't get: it isn't the second wave of RPG design. Depending on how we want to break down the RPG design waves, it's wave 4-6.

They think there's more than two genders.

I doubt math is their strong suit.

Quote from: Shasarak;1090373I can not see a drawback to having all of the toxic Sword Lords all writing under the same label.

Problem is they wont be satisfied with being in their own little playground for long and will start infesting other games again. Probably this time preaching the virtues of their virtue signal game. Or covert infiltrating and corrupting from within.

But these nuts NEVER stay off in their own little realm for long.

Quote from: Omega;1090483Problem is they wont be satisfied with being in their own little playground for long and will start infesting other games again. Probably this time preaching the virtues of their virtue signal game. Or covert infiltrating and corrupting from within.

But these nuts NEVER stay off in their own little realm for long.

Pretty much. These things are viruses, and viruses always spread.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1090484Pretty much. These things are viruses, and viruses always spread.

Storygamers. Went off to create their own little safe space free of the evil DM! Aaaand within a month, if even that, they were right back at it against regular RPGs.

Quote from: Omega;1090487Storygamers. Went off to create their own little safe space free of the evil DM! Aaaand within a month, if even that, they were right back at it against regular RPGs.

And the over reaction was to label every game with even slightly narrative DNA a storygame and act like it's got cooties.

Quote from: Dan Davenport;1090477Just a reminder to keep the discussion focused on gaming and not on general politics. Thanks!

I would like to thank all the mods for the great work they do under such stressful conditions. Please don't ban me.

My only issue with SWORD DREAM is that the name is fucking stupid.

Beyond that, I don't give two tugs of a dead dog's cock about it. It does not and will not affect me in any way.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1090622I would like to thank all the mods for the great work they do under such stressful conditions. Please don't ban me.

Heh. :)

I heard about this on RPGPub where they were clearly dancing around something like frightened children.

Seeing what this idiocy actually is about doesn't surprise me. I assume its the same fucknut brigade that shat itself on Google+ regarding the OSR logo.

Somebody should let the clowns know that swords are penises, and thus Symbols of Patriarchy and Oppression!!!!

The OSR will continue chugging along just fine.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1090660I heard about this on RPGPub where they were clearly dancing around something like frightened children.

Seeing what this idiocy actually is about doesn't surprise me. I assume its the same fucknut brigade that shat itself on Google+ regarding the OSR logo.

Somebody should let the clowns know that swords are penises, and thus Symbols of Patriarchy and Oppression!!!!

The OSR will continue chugging along just fine.

One of them already did and called them rapists if I understood Pundit right.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1090551And the over reaction was to label every game with even slightly narrative DNA a storygame and act like it's got cooties.

Online Yoda has spoken.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1090662One of them already did and called them rapists if I understood Pundit right.

Fortunately, I never wear pants when reading this forum. Otherwise, I would have pissed my pants laughing hysterically at that!!

I love, love, love the idea of Woke vs. Woke battling for Super Woke Supreme!

Quote from: everloss;1090630My only issue with SWORD DREAM is that the name is fucking stupid.

Beyond that, I don't give two tugs of a dead dog's cock about it. It does not and will not affect me in any way.

That and it allmost sounds like they are trying to sound similar to Sword World. The RPG that grew out of the original BX D&D Lodoss sessions and became its own thing.

All right, I think this one is already dead. :D

Quote from: Spinachcat;1090660I heard about this on RPGPub where they were clearly dancing around something like frightened children.

I'd say the Chicken Littles obsessing over Sword Dream seem to be the frightened children in this scenario.

SWORDDREAM is a term that Luka Rejec of WizardThiefFighter Studio came up with as a joke (https://twitter.com/lostpaolo/status/1134714922770866176). Speaking as mod at the Pub, I'm not sure what there is to be afraid of.

Quote from: Baulderstone;1090701I'd say the Chicken Littles obsessing over Sword Dream seem to be the frightened children in this scenario.

SWORDDREAM is a term that Luka Rejec of WizardThiefFighter Studio came up with as a joke (https://twitter.com/lostpaolo/status/1134714922770866176). Speaking as mod at the Pub, I'm not sure what there is to be afraid of.

Pointing and laughing at the woke morons =/= Being afraid of their wet dreams.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1090703Pointing and laughing at the woke morons =/= Being afraid of their wet dreams.

No, but this forum is taking a turn towards most of the new subjects all about complaining "SJWs", "wokeness", RPG.NET, Twitter brigades in the RPG industry, etc, rather than focused on discussion of the broad gaming hobby.  It seems to be a growing trend, and I can see why people are getting a little tired of it, especially since some of the subjects seem to be knee-jerk reactions to something, which is just as bad as what that other side does.

The last thing I think even the Pundit wants for this forum is it to just become a place to bitch about the hobby.

Quote from: JRT;1090714No, but this forum is taking a turn towards most of the new subjects all about complaining "SJWs", "wokeness", RPG.NET, Twitter brigades in the RPG industry, etc, rather than focused on discussion of the broad gaming hobby.  It seems to be a growing trend, and I can see why people are getting a little tired of it, especially since some of the subjects seem to be knee-jerk reactions to something, which is just as bad as what that other side does.

The last thing I think even the Pundit wants for this forum is it to just become a place to bitch about the hobby.

Yeah, we criticizing them, pointing at the blatant injustices committed by them and pointing and laughing at their idiocy is just the same as destroying people's life's over false (or unproven) accusations.

I will now go to self flagellate and never again criticize the other cult that shouldn't be criticized even when it's actively destroying all my hobbies (including RPGs)

Quote from: JRT;1090714The last thing I think even the Pundit wants for this forum is it to just become a place to bitch about the hobby.

Welcome to planet earth. You must be new.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1090718Yeah, we criticizing them, pointing at the blatant injustices committed by them and pointing and laughing at their idiocy is just the same as destroying people's life's over false (or unproven) accusations.

I will now go to self flagellate and never again criticize the other cult that shouldn't be criticized even when it's actively destroying all my hobbies (including RPGs)

Nope, I never said it was equal, or was defending their actions.  I was simply saying perhaps some of the forum members are getting a little fatigued by the constant and increasing volume of the threads that just seem to focus on this.  Doesn't bug me each way, but I'm seeing a few members now getting a little irritated at some of the one-track posting on these subjects.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1090719Welcome to planet earth. You must be new.

Nah, I know some of it's been reactionary, but I don't think he wants the entire forum to just be about that stuff--that's what his blog is for.  Note that he tries to start threads asking about the actual hobby here.

Quote from: JRT;1090720Nah, I know some of it's been reactionary, but I don't think he wants the entire forum to just be about that stuff--that's what his blog is for.  Note that he tries to start threads asking about the actual hobby here.

Personally, I want to participate in the culture war stuff, because I do think it impacts the hobby and is a relevant topic for discussion.

Anyone tired of the culture war threads can act like an adult, and focus on the rpg stuff. Be the change you want to see, and all that.

Quote from: JRT;1090720Nope, I never said it was equal, or was defending their actions.  I was simply saying perhaps some of the forum members are getting a little fatigued by the constant and increasing volume of the threads that just seem to focus on this.  Doesn't bug me each way, but I'm seeing a few members now getting a little irritated at some of the one-track posting on these subjects.

Allow me to disagree, by quoting you, emphasis mine.

Quote from: JRT;1090714No, but this forum is taking a turn towards most of the new subjects all about complaining "SJWs", "wokeness", RPG.NET, Twitter brigades in the RPG industry, etc, rather than focused on discussion of the broad gaming hobby.  It seems to be a growing trend, and I can see why people are getting a little tired of it, especially since some of the subjects seem to be knee-jerk reactions to something, which is just as bad as what that other side does.

The last thing I think even the Pundit wants for this forum is it to just become a place to bitch about the hobby.

So yes, you were saying exactly what you now say you didn't say.

Quote from: JRT;1090714Nah, I know some of it's been reactionary, but I don't think he wants the entire forum to just be about that stuff--that's what his blog is for.  Note that he tries to start threads asking about the actual hobby here.

I agree with Ratman_tf Ignore those threads that don't interest you and participate in those that do. Instead of saying that "some" forum members are getting tired of whatever and pretending to censor those who talk about stuff you personally don't approve off.

These threads are actually talking about the hobby, about stuff happening in the twitter sphere, this or that company or convention.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1090721Be the change you want to see, and all that.

I think it's important as well; the change I want to see, though?  Doing away with terms like "woke morons" and the like.  Also, politics in RPGs.

*shrug*

Just my $.02.  :)

Quote from: Omega;1090685That and it allmost sounds like they are trying to sound similar to Sword World. The RPG that grew out of the original BX D&D Lodoss sessions and became its own thing.

That can't be, as they'd never appropriate Japanese culture which was appropriated from Western culture in that way.

Quote from: Baulderstone;1090701I'd say the Chicken Littles obsessing over Sword Dream seem to be the frightened children in this scenario.

SWORDDREAM is a term that Luka Rejec of WizardThiefFighter Studio came up with as a joke (https://twitter.com/lostpaolo/status/1134714922770866176). Speaking as mod at the Pub, I'm not sure what there is to be afraid of.

...

bwhahaHAHAHAHAHA!

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1090721Personally, I want to participate in the culture war stuff, because I do think it impacts the hobby and is a relevant topic for discussion.

It does.

But the minute you take it seriously is the minute you lose and start working for the enemy.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1090721Personally, I want to participate in the culture war stuff, because I do think it impacts the hobby and is a relevant topic for discussion.  Anyone tired of the culture war threads can act like an adult, and focus on the rpg stuff. Be the change you want to see, and all that.

True, but the other thing to consider is that people who may get fatigued can also leave the forum itself, choose to participate in another forum, etc.  Which I don't think you'd like because the more people who abandon this forum will end up talking at other forums, taking away from the potential discussion that could happen here.  Already there's talk at RPGPUB that people are getting a little sick of both extremes and want to get back to gaming topics.  I'd hate for this forum to get a reputation as not being just neutral or for free speech but a place that's polarizing as well.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1090724I agree with Ratman_tf Ignore those threads that don't interest you and participate in those that do. Instead of saying that "some" forum members are getting tired of whatever and pretending to censor those who talk about stuff you personally don't approve off.

These threads are actually talking about the hobby, about stuff happening in the twitter sphere, this or that company or convention.

Again, I'm not trying to "censor" you, but I am simply pointing out that there's been an influx of people who are obsessed a little too much over this.  

Quote from: Chunkthulhu;1090729I think it's important as well; the change I want to see, though?  Doing away with terms like "woke morons" and the like.  Also, politics in RPGs. *shrug* Just my $.02.  :)

I don't think you are the only one either.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1090731But the minute you take it seriously is the minute you lose and start working for the enemy.

That's a fair observation.  I personally think the best way to fight against this trend of the left to censor and censure, is to ignore the barking rather than bring attention to it and let the fire die down rather that combat it with words and insults.  When people fight against it, a few people go the other extreme and they can use the opposition to fuel their fire.  I personally like the way Steve Jackson and Frog God handled it.  They just ignored and didn't pay much attention to it, not giving them fuel for the fire, and let the audience decide.

Quote from: JRT;1090736I don't think you are the only one either.

Yeah, it just becomes a big game of "you're stupid", "nuh uh, YOU'RE stupid!", "well, you're a dummy!", "well, YOU'RE a stupid-head dummy!" and people stop listening to other people.  Someone, I think, has to take the upper hand and stop with the name calling.  Might as well be us, because it's certainly not going to be them.

Quote from: JRT;1090736That's a fair observation.  I personally think the best way to fight against this trend of the left to censor and censure, is to ignore the barking rather than bring attention to it and let the fire die down rather that combat it with words and insults.  When people fight against it, a few people go the other extreme and they can use the opposition to fuel their fire.  I personally like the way Steve Jackson and Frog God handled it.  They just ignored and didn't pay much attention to it, not giving them fuel for the fire, and let the audience decide.

Because that's how the puritans on the right got defeated, nobody mocked them, debated them, argued against their claims, provided evidence against their claims, etc right?

SJG & FGG can do that because there are people who have been arguing against the pearlclutchers.

We fought the puritans on the right and that was a good thing to do, but now we're supposed to stay silent while the puritans from the left ruin our hobbies? Don't think so.

If the majority of those who bitched about threads of a topic they don't want to see actually started new threads with topics they wanted to see, instead of simply bitching about (and participating/posting in) the other, then their desire to see discussion on topics that interest them might just happen a little more...

Quote from: kythri;1090755If the majority of those who bitched about threads of a topic they don't want to see actually started new threads with topics they wanted to see, instead of simply bitching about (and participating/posting in) the other, then their desire to see discussion on topics that interest them might just happen a little more...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3461[/ATTACH]

If anyone needs new thread ideas, PLEASE post a complete shillfest about your favorite obscure RPG and why we should become cultish devotees alongside you.

Quote from: JRT;1090736True, but the other thing to consider is that people who may get fatigued can also leave the forum itself, choose to participate in another forum, etc.

Forum turnover is normal. People come and go for all sorts of reasons.

And some post on multiple forums, ebbing and flowing their focus between various forums at different times.

It's natural and expected. I love theRPGsite, but its not for everyone and that's obvious to posters after a few days/weeks.

Quote from: JRT;1090736Already there's talk at RPGPUB that people are getting a little sick of both extremes and want to get back to gaming topics.

I'm a member of RPGPub and its a nice forum, more of a RPG nursing home. It was created to be a RPG forum which banned all political discussion, but while championing free speech about games. It's reason for existence is quite different than why theRPGsite was created.

In many ways, both forums reflect their founders.

Quote from: JRT;1090736I'd hate for this forum to get a reputation as not being just neutral or for free speech but a place that's polarizing as well.

Our reputation can't get any worse. If you post here, you're a goose-stepping baby-eating Neo-Nazi. Even if you voted for Hillary, or if you're not even an American.  

But that's fine. Anyone who wants to actually understand theRPGsite can see that its a free speech free-for-all mosh pit where there will be plenty of fiery opinions launched without fear of moderation. What we are is freedom, chaos, creativity and rage.

And again, that's not for everyone.

Quote from: JRT;1090736I personally think the best way to fight against this trend of the left to censor and censure, is to ignore the barking rather than bring attention to it and let the fire die down rather that combat it with words and insults.

Silence is tacit agreement.

It actually isn't, but if something doesn't get pushed back, people assume it's an agreed-upon concept.

Quote from: JRT;1090736I personally like the way Steve Jackson and Frog God handled it.  They just ignored and didn't pay much attention to it, not giving them fuel for the fire, and let the audience decide.

I understood they went quiet because they got an attack lawyer.

Quote from: JRT;1090736I personally like the way Steve Jackson and Frog God handled it.  They just ignored and didn't pay much attention to it, not giving them fuel for the fire, and let the audience decide.

Not to mention that despite the best efforts of the perpetually offended regressive rpg gaming SJWS, both companies kickstarters despite the rpg SJWs best efforts were extremely successful. Showing those same SJWS that gamers at large not only don't give a shit about them being offended it also shows how irrelevant they are to the hobby. They can't really complain when despite their best efforts everyone else in the hobby gave them two middle fingers and did exactly the opposite of what the SJWS wanted them too.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1090721Anyone tired of the culture war threads can act like an adult, and focus on the rpg stuff. Be the change you want to see, and all that.

The rpg.net d20 forum has a lot of rpg stuff and not much culture war stuff. I'm finding a lot to read or reply to there recently, both 5e and OSR-relevant. It's annoying that I can't bring up ACKS there when Alex had a good solution to a problem, but in practice less annoying than the constant stuff getting in the way of looking for elfgame inspiration on this forum.

Quote from: Naburimannu;1091050but in practice less annoying than the constant stuff getting in the way of looking for elfgame inspiration on this forum.

Somebody post a Elfgame Inspiration thread!!!

You kids with low post counts need to start threads about shiznack that interests you!!

Lurkers! De-lurk and start a thread about something you'd love to read about.

Quote from: sureshot;1091047Not to mention that despite the best efforts of the perpetually offended regressive rpg gaming SJWS, both companies kickstarters despite the rpg SJWs best efforts were extremely successful. Showing those same SJWS that gamers at large not only don't give a shit about them being offended it also shows how irrelevant they are to the hobby. They can't really complain when despite their best efforts everyone else in the hobby gave them two middle fingers and did exactly the opposite of what the SJWS wanted them too.

Best efforts? They don't even care about it at all themselves it seems, at least on rpg.net.

Here's The Wyzard in April, indignant and boycotting Steve Jackson Games and The Fantasy Trip until they change their tune, wanting to wash his hands of the entire company.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]3476[/ATTACH]

Then here he is in May upset that he couldn't back the most recent The Fantasy Trip kickstarter.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]3478[/ATTACH]

Here he is on June 7th, merrily talking about The Fantasy Trip again.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3477[/ATTACH]

Did Steve Jackson Games change their tune somewhere between April and June? No. So, the boycott seems to be dropped, or at least the whole washing his hands of the company (it is after all possible he isn't actually buying any more stuff for the game). In fact, after talk of the game was almost completely dead for a couple of months, the latest thread (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sell-me-unsell-me-on-the-fantasy-trip.847589/) asking about the game starts with one reply not even talking about the game but rather only linking to one of the earlier locked threads (conveniently one that was locked before Bill Webb and BJ Hensley put out a joint statement for everyone to chill the fuck out) and the poster admitting they actually have no clue about the actual game, the rest of the thread is just a bunch of people talking about the game and explaining various aspects of it.

So all those people on rpg.net who earlier were all "no more SJG stuff for me"? I'd be willing to bet that most of them had either no or almost no SJG stuff to begin with, or that they quickly changed their tune and never actually went through with purging their collections or whatever. it was just a bunch of hot air at the time, that gets forgotten or amended later. I mean, I'm sure some of them cooled down when that joint statement was put out, but it isn't like anyone publicly said anything. The whole thing just got quietly dropped after a series of locked threads. And after a short period in the doghouse, discussion of TFT is now happening over there again.

...and so it goes.

For me it's simple. I dont like gay and transgender people. They don't like me either. I try to be polite and maintain a healthy distance, especially when trying to be entertained so...nope they dont play my games and I sure as shit dont play theirs.

Quote from: rgrove0172;1091128For me it's simple. I dont like gay and transgender people. They don't like me either. I try to be polite and maintain a healthy distance, especially when trying to be entertained so...nope they dont play my games and I sure as shit dont play theirs.

Congratulations for being a bigot I guess?

Quote from: Blankman;1091122I'd be willing to bet that most of them had either no or almost no SJG stuff to begin with, or that they quickly changed their tune and never actually went through with purging their collections or whatever.

Correct. But the bandwagon must go on.

Quote from: rgrove0172;1091128For me it's simple. I dont like gay and transgender people. They don't like me either. I try to be polite and maintain a healthy distance, especially when trying to be entertained so...nope they dont play my games and I sure as shit dont play theirs.

You sir, are a faggot. Or a troll. I can't tell at this point because we're living in an age where Poe's Law is in full effect.

Don't get me wrong, the trannies are annoying as fuck and the LGBT community is better off without them.

Seriously, take it from a guy who is openly bisexual, not all queers are whiny SJW's and the sane people in the gay and lesbian community hate the SJW's with a burning passion.

It's mostly just the trannies and radfem dangerhair lesbians that drink the SJW kool-aid (and Carlos Mazza too, but he's an asshole)

I never understood why people are so hateful towards gays and bisexuals?

I get the hate directed at SJW's but there are a lot of cool queers who aren't into the Identity Politics bullshit and just want to enjoy a good game of D&D.

Are you really going to get pissed at someone for what they do in their private lives if it doesn't affect your gaming life?

And before you invoke "muh Biblical morality", do you really want to base your life on a book about an abusive tyrant sky daddy that was written by old dead Jews from the Iron Age?

What next? Are you going to stop eating pork and shrimp or stop watching porn because that's technically the same as committing actual IRL adultery? Come on!

If you don't like the idea of men having sex with men, I get that. But that can be remedied by you just not having sex with other men and leaving it at that.

I don't see why you feel like complaining about what other consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes just because some dick of a deity says it's an "abomination" and in the process limiting your gaming pool.

It's not that big of a deal.

And before you play the "atheist fedora strawman" card, I'm not an atheist. I find most outspoken atheists to be every bit as unbearable and insufferable as the fundie Christians and Islamists. Paganism FTW!

And I'm talking real Roman Paganism, not that fake hippie Wicca bullshit.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1091171And I'm talking real Roman Paganism, not that fake hippie Wicca bullshit.

    You don't get to call it real until you start offering sacrifices. :)

Quote from: Spinachcat;1091024But that's fine. Anyone who wants to actually understand theRPGsite can see that its a free speech free-for-all mosh pit where there will be plenty of fiery opinions launched without fear of moderation. What we are is freedom, chaos, creativity and rage.

So...you're saying that we're the punk rockers of the RPG world...

That is pretty fuckin' awesome! :cool:

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1091173You don't get to call it real until you start offering sacrifices. :)

Hey, I'm working on it! Might take a while because I'm limited on funds but ol' Sammy is getting there.

Already built the lararium and I'm checking the prices of live chickens at Tractor Supply Company and in the local trading posts.

And Armchair Gamer, there is a difference between guys like you and assholes like rgrove.

You are a Christian and a truly devout one at that, and I can respect someone who is truly faithful. You disagree with homosexuality because you believe it goes against your God's will, but I doubt you would turn someone from your gaming table solely because they were gay or bi but were otherwise pretty chill.

rgrove strikes me more as a redneck dickhead who would simply go and use his misinterpretation of the Bible to justify his preexisting bigotry.

Your Christianity is like that of JRR Tolkien and the Knights Hospitaller, while his is like that of Fred Phelps and the Puritan colonists.

Quote from: moonsweeper;1091174So...you're saying that we're the punk rockers of the RPG world...

That is pretty fuckin' awesome! :cool:

Nah, we're cooler than that. We're the heavy metal of the RPG world.

RPGnet are the punk rockers, seeing as they are pretentious contrarians who preach conformity through a veneer of nonconformity.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1091175You are a Christian and a truly devout one at that, and I can respect someone who is truly faithful. You disagree with homosexuality because you believe but I doubt you would turn someone from your gaming table solely because they were gay or bi but were otherwise pretty chill..

    My last gaming group included two self-identified gay men and a bisexual woman. They were also all committed to doing their best to live by Catholic teaching, and this was a group made up mostly of current and former students in Theology and Religious Studies at a Catholic university, so it's probably not the norm.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1091176My last gaming group included two self-identified gay men and a bisexual woman. They were also all committed to doing their best to live by Catholic teaching, and this was a group made up mostly of current and former students in Theology and Religious Studies at a Catholic university, so it's probably not the norm.

That's good, and I can respect that. Like I said, you believe in Catholicism because you truly believe it is righteous and as far as I can tell, you walk the walk.

I admire that, even if I don't personally agree with a large chunk of Catholic theology.

rgrove says he doesn't let LGBT people into his gaming group but I'd be ten dollars he doesn't even know which verses in the Bible express any prohibitions against homosexuality or any other verses relating to morality.

Quote from: rgrove0172;1091128For me it's simple. I dont like gay and transgender people. They don't like me either. I try to be polite and maintain a healthy distance, especially when trying to be entertained so...nope they dont play my games and I sure as shit dont play theirs.

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/3o7WItQ2Btgvm3P29O/giphy.gif)

This thread is in desperate need of NSP's wisdom!

[video=youtube;yWXIZk2kTKQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWXIZk2kTKQ[/youtube]

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1091171You sir, are a faggot.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1091171I never understood why people are so hateful towards gays and bisexuals?

Dweeb, you just answered your own question. TOLERATE MY LIFESTYLE OR I WILL RAIN HATE ON YOU!!!! isn't a winning formula long term.

I don't agree with rgrove's stance, but in the USA we have FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION in our private lives and in our homes. Everyone is free to their personal opinions and choices of whom with to spend their free time.

Personally, I think rgrove is using the wrong metric to determine who may or may not be on "his side", but across social media we hear daily how people will not speak to friends/relatives who voted "wrong" or who don't accept their stance on any number of things. It's a completely accepted policy on college campus to segregate by skin color and only associate with "your own kind".

So it's rather disingenuous to freak on rgrove for doing the exact same thing we see praised in the MSM.  

But like everyone who limits their world to X people, rgrove will miss out on some cool people.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1091171Are you really going to get pissed at someone for what they do in their private lives if it doesn't affect your gaming life?

No. We're gonna leave that to you. Dork.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1091171Are you going to stop eating pork and shrimp or stop watching porn because that's technically the same as committing actual IRL adultery?

Real Americans eat bacon wrapped shrimp one handed! :)

Quote from: moonsweeper;1091174So...you're saying that we're the punk rockers of the RPG world...

That is pretty fuckin' awesome! :cool:

Fuck yeah! I'm on the Slayer/Anthrax side of the punk rock family. I'm not a fan of "pure" punk, prefer hybrids like Hatebreed and Rob Zombie, but I'm eternally grateful the punk genre gave so much to heavy metal.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1091175Already built the lararium and I'm checking the prices of live chickens at Tractor Supply Company and in the local trading posts.

Don't confuse your religion with animal cruelty. Killing animals with minimum suffering requires some skill.

Also, you will probably run afoul of local laws.

Yes, I said afoul.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1091171You sir, are a faggot. Or a troll. I can't tell at this point because we're living in an age where Poe's Law is in full effect...[/snip]

Sammy... You just made some assumptions on rgrove about being a bigot (which is clearly true, but who cares?) then turn around and personally attack him...

Then you go on a tirade about how much *you* dislike that very same community while virtue signalling about you being a bisexual with your own weird beliefs when no one asked you.

That shit is hilarious. Unintentionally. You two should have a "debate thread" in Pundits forum. I would totally watch that.


Edit: Spinachat!!! I had written a much longer response similar to yours. Then I realized "wtf is the point?" enjoy the show while it lasts. Better - let's stage a bigger production on Pundit's forum.

Doc Sammy is the dumbest fucking idiot I've ever seen on a forum. Spazzes out on some douche being a bigot about gays and goes all bigot on transsexuals. Amazing. But of course what do expect from some moron who thinks the Czar Nicholas II was a saint. Fucking Christ on a stick.

Oh, and Sword Dream would be dumb if it were an actual serious thing.

We're working on Wokefinder: the Sword Dreaming in another thread!!

At least, that's my favorite name for it!

I almost feel bad for the retarded clowns in their Phallus Weapon Wet PJs Club. The OSR has ZERO gatekeepers and everyone is welcome to interpret anything old school through their personal perspective and publish it unfettered.

Oh wait...that's what they don't about the OSR. These clowns hate the freedom the OSR offers.

How.
Not.
Surprising.

Quote from: Machinegun Blue;1091209Doc Sammy is the dumbest fucking idiot I've ever seen on a forum. Spazzes out on some douche being a bigot about gays and goes all bigot on transsexuals. Amazing. But of course what do expect from some moron who thinks the Czar Nicholas II was a saint. Fucking Christ on a stick.

Eh, it takes one to know one.

And I don't hate actual transgender people (as in those with actual gender dysphoria) it's the bandwagon fakers I hate.

Forgive me if I was not clearer on that.

Also, Nicholas II may not have been a "saint" but he was a fuckton better than Lenin or Stalin.

But we're getting off-topic, let's focus on why Sword Dream is a crock of shit.

Quote from: tenbones;1091202Sammy... You just made some assumptions on rgrove about being a bigot (which is clearly true, but who cares?) then turn around and personally attack him...

Then you go on a tirade about how much *you* dislike that very same community while virtue signalling about you being a bisexual with your own weird beliefs when no one asked you.

That shit is hilarious. Unintentionally. You two should have a "debate thread" in Pundits forum. I would totally watch that.


Edit: Spinachat!!! I had written a much longer response similar to yours. Then I realized "wtf is the point?" enjoy the show while it lasts. Better - let's stage a bigger production on Pundit's forum.

Eh, I admit that you and Spinachat have a point.

rgrove was giving me some serious "redneck" vibes and I admit I spazzed out like the idiot I am.

But to get the fuck back on topic, Sword Dream is basically an attempt to politicize the OSR and it's gonna fail because it doesn't understand what the OSR is.

Guys? Please keep the conversation gaming-relevant and leave the sexuality debates to Pundit's forum. Thanks!

Agreed. This thread is going down a rabbit hole that I don't think any of us want it to go in, and none of our reactions will help matters.

Let's focus on why Sword Dream will fail harder than Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition.

The majority of the OSR have spoken and don't want identity politics shoehorned into their games. Unlike Pathfinder or the World of Darkness, the OSR is not a curated franchise owned by a handful of people but it is instead a DIY movement that is driven by a multitude of creators.

TL;DR-If you don't like the other OSR games, then make your own goddamn OSR game and stop trying to hijack the entire movement!

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1091223Agreed. This thread is going down a rabbit hole that I don't think any of us want it to go in, and none of our reactions will help matters.

Let's focus on why Sword Dream will fail harder than Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition.

The majority of the OSR have spoken and don't want identity politics shoehorned into their games. Unlike Pathfinder or the World of Darkness, the OSR is not a curated franchise owned by a handful of people but it is instead a DIY movement that is driven by a multitude of creators.

TL;DR-If you don't like the other OSR games, then make your own goddamn OSR game and stop trying to hijack the entire movement!

Which is why they will ultimately fail at co-opting the hobby, they can't stop us from making our own games, if needed we can sell mimeographed copies out of the trunk of a car.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1091226Which is why they will ultimately fail at co-opting the hobby, they can't stop us from making our own games, if needed we can sell mimeographed copies out of the trunk of a car.

Amen! The OSR will never capitulate to the outrage brigades!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1091214We're working on Wokefinder: the Sword Dreaming in another thread!!

At least, that's my favorite name for it!

I almost feel bad for the retarded clowns in their Phallus Weapon Wet PJs Club. The OSR has ZERO gatekeepers and everyone is welcome to interpret anything old school through their personal perspective and publish it unfettered.

Oh wait...that's what they don't about the OSR. These clowns hate the freedom the OSR offers.

How.
Not.
Surprising.

This is the problem I have about the Sword Dreaming thing. You know, but without the insults.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1091226Which is why they will ultimately fail at co-opting the hobby, they can't stop us from making our own games, if needed we can sell mimeographed copies out of the trunk of a car.

Which is what I thought the OSR was partly about.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1091227Amen! The OSR will never capitulate to the outrage brigades!

They could make some designers/developers bend the knee, but how are they going to force us all to tow their line? How are they going to make Pundit, me and other Developers to fire ourselves?

Quote from: Machinegun Blue;1091230Which is what I thought the OSR was partly about.

Ein? the OSR is partly about what?

When you type "sword dream osr" into Google, this thread comes up as the top hit. I wager we're the ones keeping "the dream" alive...

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1091232Ein? the OSR is partly about what?

Making your own games, possibly to even sell them out of your trunk.

Quote from: Machinegun Blue;1091236Making your own games, possibly to even sell them out of your trunk.

Oh yes, at least in part, mainly it's to go back to a (for some of us) better set of rules.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1091235When you type "sword dream osr" into Google, this thread comes up as the top hit. I wager we're the ones keeping "the dream" alive...

So we did (with out even trying) to their dream, what they do intentionally when they brand someone a nazi?

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1091235I wager we're the ones keeping "the dream" alive...

I'll take the blame. I can't really pass up the chance to mosh around a dumpster fire.

At Slayer's last show in SoCal, the security staff had to break up our moshpit around an impromptu trash fire on the venue's lawn. Of course, we then moshed like goobers around the staff and when they left, one dude ripped off his underwear and socks and we lit that on fire for another song.

There may have been some beer involved.

Quote from: Blankman;1091122Best efforts? They don't even care about it at all themselves it seems, at least on rpg.net.

Here's The Wyzard...

You could have stopped there :)

Quote from: rgrove0172;1091128For me it's simple. I dont like gay and transgender people. They don't like me either. I try to be polite and maintain a healthy distance, especially when trying to be entertained so...nope they dont play my games and I sure as shit dont play theirs.

But how are you able to spot them, and if you aren't, then why would they be a problem?

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1091235When you type "sword dream osr" into Google, this thread comes up as the top hit. I wager we're the ones keeping "the dream" alive...

Just like how Anita Sarkeesian kept the dream of #Gamergate alive.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1091189This thread is in desperate need of NSP's wisdom!

[video=youtube;yWXIZk2kTKQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWXIZk2kTKQ[/youtube]

The fact I now know this exists has made all this bullshit worth it.

Most of the activity appears to be on Twitter; they've just put out nine principles:

https://mobile.twitter.com/SwordsnFlowers/status/1137056077978058752/photo/1 (https://mobile.twitter.com/SwordsnFlowers/status/1137056077978058752/photo/1)

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1091249Most of the activity appears to be on Twitter; they've just put out nine principles:

https://mobile.twitter.com/SwordsnFlowers/status/1137056077978058752/photo/1 (https://mobile.twitter.com/SwordsnFlowers/status/1137056077978058752/photo/1)

Asterisk Dream? Really? Do they think dreaming of the asterisk is better than getting sword reamed?

Now onto serious issues, bwahahahahahahahaha their "principles" are video material!

That's gotta be a joke Twitter account.

It reads like an Onion parody.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1091257That's gotta be a joke Twitter account.

It reads like an Onion parody.

Nope, dead serious.

But of course they already gave themselves an out of their "principles" for when they feel like gatekeping, harrasing, etc (always)

https://mobile.twitter.com/TrebuchetOps/status/1137018265614659584 (https://mobile.twitter.com/TrebuchetOps/status/1137018265614659584)

Quote from: Spinachcat;1091214The OSR has ZERO gatekeepers and everyone is welcome to interpret anything old school through their personal perspective and publish it unfettered.

You apparently missed that whole stage of heavy gatekeeping in the OSR then? Dont know if any are still doing that now. Hope not.

Quote from: Omega;1091259You apparently missed that whole stage of heavy gatekeeping in the OSR then? Dont know if any are still doing that now. Hope not.

Citation needed

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1091249Most of the activity appears to be on Twitter; they've just put out nine principles:

#4 doesn't seem so bad (https://mobile.twitter.com/TrebuchetOps/status/1137018260992536578)...

Quote*DREAM opposes harassment and strives for non-toxic discourse. We assume best intentions, we call in before calling out, and we start discussions before we make accusations. But, if best intentions aren't present, we will call out.

...so lets see how well they uphold that.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1091262#4 doesn't seem so bad (https://mobile.twitter.com/TrebuchetOps/status/1137018260992536578)...

Let's remember who we're talking about. Ignoring context and assuming worst intentions are pretty much foundational to how they operate. If #4 isn't a lie, then they forfeit all of their power and any ability to follow through on the other 8.

Quote from: Omega;1091259You apparently missed that whole stage of heavy gatekeeping in the OSR then? Dont know if any are still doing that now. Hope not.

As I've been an OSR cultist from the earliest days, I've definitely missed the heavy gatekeeping.

Unless you're referencing all the discussion over how retroclones should include Lift Gates / Bend Bars percentages for exceptional STR scores.

Those threads did get heavy and involved gates.

Daniel Fox, the creator of Zweihander seems to have a lot of clout in the RPG biz right now. He's also pretty radical SJW. He considers his game OSR. I wonder what the SWORDDREAM people will do?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1091189This thread is in desperate need of NSP's wisdom!

The mime... died?

The 9 principles:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3491[/ATTACH]

Quote from: trechriron;1091277Daniel Fox, the creator of Zweihander seems to have a lot of clout in the RPG biz right now. He's also pretty radical SJW. He considers his game OSR. I wonder what the SWORDDREAM people will do?

He recently started following me on Twitter.

Can't imagine why.

Quote from: Aglondir;1091279The 9 principles:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3491[/ATTACH]

None of those have anything to do with gaming or game design.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1091290None of those have anything to do with gaming or game design.

Indeed, pure politics. Coded language and agendas. What is a "sensible tool for communication and consent?" What is "fair treatment for hobbyists?"

" radically inclusive" oh brother.....

" we start discussions before making accusations"
Yeah I'm calling Bullshit right there.

If someone handed me that when joining a game I would hand it back and walk out laughing.

"radically inclusive" is funny phrase, like what, find a group of white dudes with pimples and force them to find a black diabetic lesbian on a wheelchair if they want to continue playing?

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1091290None of those have anything to do with gaming or game design.

I'm pretty sure point 7, "experimaentation in game design & worldbuilding" has something to do with game design you know. Point 8 seems to have stuff about gaming and game design in there too, "generative worlds, kitbashing, non-violent play options" are all things you can put in a game (I'd say non-violent play options are kind of intrinsically in rpgs, otherwise they would be too restricted to be rpgs, but it is still an element of game design). Point 6 is about DIY, taking alternative approaches to publishing and believing anyone can make great games. That is at least connected to game publishing. Point 5, "equitable pay for professional creators" is definitely about game publishing, something fairly heavily related to game design. The last point, point 9, is just about "this isn't a company, you too can do the thing", same as with talking about OSR or whatever. So ignoring that, as it isn't really meant to say anything other than "this is not a company logo", half of the points are about game design or game publishing. So it is pure hyperbole to say nothing on that list has anything to do with gaming or game design.

The problem is that the first four points aren't actually related to that, and since they are first they take on more importance and color the rest of the document. The ideas about game design are there, just clearly subordinate to the ideology. It's like Christian movies. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make a film that has a Christian message, if that's your bag, the problem, and the reason why those films almost always suck, is when you decide that sending a good message has priority over making a good film. Make a good film first, worry about the message later. Similarly, make a good game first, worry about inclusiveness etc later. You want to put in art that features people of wildly different ethnicities? Cool, just make sure that is is good art that supports your game (or adventure, setting, source book or what have you) first.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1091290None of those have anything to do with gaming or game design.

I'm pretty sure point 7, "experimentation in game design & worldbuilding" has something to do with game design you know. Point 8 seems to have stuff about gaming and game design in there too, "generative worlds, kitbashing, non-violent play options" are all things you can put in a game (I'd say non-violent play options are kind of intrinsically in rpgs, otherwise they would be too restricted to be rpgs, but it is still an element of game design). Point 6 is about DIY, taking alternative approaches to publishing and believing anyone can make great games. That is at least connected to game publishing. Point 5, "equitable pay for professional creators" is definitely about game publishing, something fairly heavily related to game design. The last point, point 9, is just about "this isn't a company, you too can do the thing", same as with talking about OSR or whatever. So ignoring that, as it isn't really meant to say anything other than "this is not a company logo", half of the points are about game design or game publishing. So it is pure hyperbole to say nothing on that list has anything to do with gaming or game design.

The problem is that the first four points aren't actually related to that, and since they are first they take on more importance and color the rest of the document. The ideas about game design are there, just clearly subordinate to the ideology. It's like Christian movies. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make a film that has a Christian message, if that's your bag. The problem, and the reason why those films almost always suck, is when you decide that sending a good message has priority over making a good film. Make a good film first, worry about the message later. Similarly, make a good game first, worry about inclusiveness etc later. You want to put in art that features people of wildly different ethnicities? Cool, just make sure that is is good art that supports your game (or adventure, setting, source book or what have you) first.

The fact that they've got nine points is another sign that it's destined for failure. Anyone who's ever presented to a board of directors knows you keep your bullet points to five or fewer. Your message must be concise, easily stated and memorable. Statistically, more than five points is where you loose your audience. That these guys lead with four points that have literally nothing to do with gaming tells us what they're all about (hint: not gaming).

Quote from: Blankman;1091315I'm pretty sure point 7, "experimentation in game design & worldbuilding" has something to do with game design you know. Point 8 seems to have stuff about gaming and game design in there too, "generative worlds, kitbashing, non-violent play options" are all things you can put in a game (I'd say non-violent play options are kind of intrinsically in rpgs, otherwise they would be too restricted to be rpgs, but it is still an element of game design). Point 6 is about DIY, taking alternative approaches to publishing and believing anyone can make great games. That is at least connected to game publishing. Point 5, "equitable pay for professional creators" is definitely about game publishing, something fairly heavily related to game design. The last point, point 9, is just about "this isn't a company, you too can do the thing", same as with talking about OSR or whatever. So ignoring that, as it isn't really meant to say anything other than "this is not a company logo", half of the points are about game design or game publishing. So it is pure hyperbole to say nothing on that list has anything to do with gaming or game design.

The problem is that the first four points aren't actually related to that, and since they are first they take on more importance and color the rest of the document. The ideas about game design are there, just clearly subordinate to the ideology. It's like Christian movies. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make a film that has a Christian message, if that's your bag. The problem, and the reason why those films almost always suck, is when you decide that sending a good message has priority over making a good film. Make a good film first, worry about the message later. Similarly, make a good game first, worry about inclusiveness etc later. You want to put in art that features people of wildly different ethnicities? Cool, just make sure that is is good art that supports your game (or adventure, setting, source book or what have you) first.

Christian movies?   You are a joke.

Quote from: Blood Axe;1091346Christian movies? You are a joke.

Yes Christian movies. Stuff like God's Not Dead (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God%27s_Not_Dead_(film)), things that are primarily made to preach, rather than be good films. A film can be a good depiction of Christian values or a story from the Bible without being that type of Christian film. Just like a game can have a lot of art of different kinds of people and be written by people from different demographics without making that more important than the actual game.

Quote from: Blankman;1091351Yes Christian movies. Stuff like God's Not Dead (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God%27s_Not_Dead_(film)), things that are primarily made to preach, rather than be good films. A film can be a good depiction of Christian values or a story from the Bible without being that type of Christian film. Just like a game can have a lot of art of different kinds of people and be written by people from different demographics without making that more important than the actual game.

The inclusion of religion in your post had nothing to do with rpg but hey whatever. Maybe the Atheist coming out?
Inclusiveness for its own sake is ridiculous if it doesn't fit the game. But keep on SJW.

Quote from: Blood Axe;1091354The inclusion of religion in your post had nothing to do with rpg but hey whatever. Maybe the Atheist coming out?
Inclusiveness for its own sake is ridiculous if it doesn't fit the game. But keep on SJW.

It was a comparison, comparing caring about politics over making a good game to caring about getting your religious message out over making a good film. Sometimes in a discussion or conversation people make comparisons between two things that aren't exactly the same in order to make or highlight a point.

Quote from: Blood Axe;1091354The inclusion of religion in your post had nothing to do with rpg but hey whatever. Maybe the Atheist coming out?
Inclusiveness for its own sake is ridiculous if it doesn't fit the game. But keep on SJW.

Obvious Neo-Puritan is obvious.

Blankman's comparison is right on the money.

Christian Rock doesn't make Christianity better, it makes Rock & Roll worse.

Sword Dream doesn't make Identity Politics better, it makes RPG's worse.

And there are some good Christian movies but they are rare.

Controversies aside, The Passion Of The Christ is a well-made movie because despite all of his personal flaws, Mel Gibson is a damn fine filmmaker and he is an artist.

He wanted to make a movie that was not only sending a Christian message but was also a great movie in and of itself.

I'm a pagan and I love The Passion Of The Christ for its merits as a film and a work of art.

Meanwhile, I know devout Christians who cringe at bullshit like God's Not Dead.

Quote from: Blood Axe;1091354The inclusion of religion in your post had nothing to do with rpg but hey whatever. Maybe the Atheist coming out?
Inclusiveness for its own sake is ridiculous if it doesn't fit the game. But keep on SJW.

You have weird sensitive spots. He could have just as easily chosen any other example where ideological/religious messaging was ham-handedly the primary purpose of a work. The point was not about religion, but somehow you are not seeing that & got triggered? His point was that he found the first 4 points ideological in nature, about an ideological notion that is separate from the creation of good games. In the same way that a ham-fisted Soviet parable may be less about writing a good story than about singing the praises of Soviet style Communism, or 60 year old white guys rapping about Jesus in the late '80s were probably more about getting kids interested in Jesus by "talking to them in their language" than by their honest love of hip-hop. In the same way a Wendy's music video about how to serve cold drinks is more about training new employees than trying to make a real personal artistic contribution to the world.  But... sometimes even people working with those motives will stumble upon greatness...

[video=youtube;PJ-JBFXh2IU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ-JBFXh2IU[/youtube]

Quote from: Blankman;1091315I'm pretty sure point 7, "experimentation in game design & worldbuilding" has something to do with game design you know. Point 8 seems to have stuff about gaming and game design in there too, "generative worlds, kitbashing, non-violent play options" are all things you can put in a game (I'd say non-violent play options are kind of intrinsically in rpgs, otherwise they would be too restricted to be rpgs, but it is still an element of game design). Point 6 is about DIY, taking alternative approaches to publishing and believing anyone can make great games. That is at least connected to game publishing. Point 5, "equitable pay for professional creators" is definitely about game publishing, something fairly heavily related to game design. The last point, point 9, is just about "this isn't a company, you too can do the thing", same as with talking about OSR or whatever. So ignoring that, as it isn't really meant to say anything other than "this is not a company logo", half of the points are about game design or game publishing. So it is pure hyperbole to say nothing on that list has anything to do with gaming or game design.

The problem is that the first four points aren't actually related to that, and since they are first they take on more importance and color the rest of the document. The ideas about game design are there, just clearly subordinate to the ideology. It's like Christian movies. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make a film that has a Christian message, if that's your bag. The problem, and the reason why those films almost always suck, is when you decide that sending a good message has priority over making a good film. Make a good film first, worry about the message later. Similarly, make a good game first, worry about inclusiveness etc later. You want to put in art that features people of wildly different ethnicities? Cool, just make sure that is is good art that supports your game (or adventure, setting, source book or what have you) first.

I get what you're saying. And I think it's interesting to compare SJW-ism to Christian fundamentalism.

Quote from: NeonAce;1091358Wendy's music video ...

That is surreal. On several levels.

Quote from: Blood Axe;1091354The inclusion of religion in your post had nothing to do with rpg but hey whatever. Maybe the Atheist coming out?
Inclusiveness for its own sake is ridiculous if it doesn't fit the game. But keep on SJW.

The ideology of the SJW's is very much a religion.

Quote from: tenbones;1091405The ideology of the SJW's is very much a religion.

The same level of brainwashing and immunity to reasonable argument seems to be involved.

Quote from: tenbones;1091405The ideology of the SJW's is very much a religion.

Ever since Nietzsche killed God people have been looking for a replacement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Gospel

They just dropped Jesus entirely but kept the same leftist form of Protestantism.

I don't expect much will come from "sworddream."  People who don't have a chip on their shoulder already have loads of RPGs to enjoy.  It doesn't actually do anything for anyone who will actually buy or play games.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1091319The fact that they've got nine points is another sign that it's destined for failure. Anyone who's ever presented to a board of directors knows you keep your bullet points to five or fewer. Your message must be concise, easily stated and memorable. Statistically, more than five points is where you loose your audience. That these guys lead with four points that have literally nothing to do with gaming tells us what they're all about (hint: not gaming).

LOL. So true. I read an article about why the 10 Commandments didn't work and it was half joking, but it pointed out how people need ideas that fit on the fingers of one hand.

Ironically, the actual OSR has it down.

1) Rulings, not rules.
2) DIY ethic
3) D&D uber alles

Quote from: NeonAce;1091358But... sometimes even people working with those motives will stumble upon greatness...

Thank you for posting that! I knew I had D4 extra SAN I didn't need!

Quote from: Shasarak;1091412Ever since Nietzsche killed God people have been looking for a replacement.

Too true. Humans (for whatever reason) need religion, and they will lay the trappings of religion over anything, regardless if a deity is involved.

Quote from: Shasarak;1091412Ever since Nietzsche killed God people have been looking for a replacement.

Yep. In the absence of God... they are compelled to create one. They went old-school too - vengeful, ignorant, spiteful, dogmatic. We need to stat this deity up!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1091445Too true. Humans (for whatever reason) need religion, and they will lay the trappings of religion over anything, regardless if a deity is involved.

Something I have had many an argument with atheists over. The anti-theist kind, the ones that think they can abolish religion and are working towards it. It doesn't matter if you believe in God or not, you have to be able to see religion fills something in the human psyche/soul. And when that hole it's not filled by religion very few are able to resist turning to secular religions/cults and some of those give us the example of people needing God to act morally.

Just look at all the SJWs, deep into a cult and one more immoral than the last.

Which might be a good plot seed for someone better at writing adventures than me. I might use it on a table tho.

Quote from: tenbones;1091471Yep. In the absence of God... they are compelled to create one. They went old-school too - vengeful, ignorant, spiteful, dogmatic. We need to stat this deity up!

   I think Troll Lord Games just published a whole book of them (https://www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/#!/Castles-&-Crusades-Tome-of-the-Unclean/p/137384093/category=13376125). ;)

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1091474I think Troll Lord Games just published a whole book of them (https://www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/#!/Castles-&-Crusades-Tome-of-the-Unclean/p/137384093/category=13376125). ;)

HAH! touche!

Quote from: Blankman;1091351Yes Christian movies. Stuff like God's Not Dead (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God%27s_Not_Dead_(film)), things that are primarily made to preach, rather than be good films. A film can be a good depiction of Christian values or a story from the Bible without being that type of Christian film. Just like a game can have a lot of art of different kinds of people and be written by people from different demographics without making that more important than the actual game.

I'm an atheist, and I thought The Ten Commandments was the bees' knees.

Quote from: Shasarak;1091412Ever since Nietzsche killed God people have been looking for a replacement.

"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?"

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1091684I'm an atheist, and I thought The Ten Commandments was the bees' knees.

I've never seen it, but that's not the kind of film I'm talking about. Unless I've totally misjudged the film of course.

Quote from: Blankman;1091686I've never seen it, but that's not the kind of film I'm talking about. Unless I've totally misjudged the film of course.

No, I just brought it up as a "good" film about religion.

As much as I like to rag on Christianity and God being a dick, I have to admit that the religion that has largely replaced Christianity in the Western First World is somehow ten times worse.

God may have been a dick from my perspective, but the deification of Identity Politics is even worse in every way imaginable.

For all its flaws, Christianity has also given the West major beneficial contributions as well.

The religion of Christianity gave us the paintings of Michaelangelo and the writings of J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis

The religion of SJW Identity Politics gave us the Marvel Cinematic Universe and Harry Potter books.

Quote from: Blankman;1091686I've never seen it, but that's not the kind of film I'm talking about. Unless I've totally misjudged the film of course.

I'm not religious and 10 Commandments is a must-see movie. It's an amazing spectacle, especially for the time. It's got great actors and some of the best movie-making ever, from direction to cinematography to costumes to sets. Impressive flick. If you have access to a movie house which does revivals, its an epic worth seeing on the big screen.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1091692The religion of SJW Identity Politics gave us the Marvel Cinematic Universe and Harry Potter books.

JK Rowling wasn't "woke" when she wrote Harry Potter. That's just her getting stupid atop a giant pile of money.

The MCU didn't begin eating a bag of dicks, but its clearly jumped aboard the Woke Wagon in the past few flicks.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1091692For all its flaws, Christianity has also given the West major beneficial contributions as well.

The religion of Christianity gave us the paintings of Michaelangelo and the writings of J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis

The religion of SJW Identity Politics gave us the Marvel Cinematic Universe and Harry Potter books.

Doc, I agree with the first two sentences but I'm not sure why you hate HP so much. As you can tell by my quote, I'm a fan of the books. You're absolutely correct about Christian metaphors in Tolkien. Both Frodo and Gandalf are Christ figures, representing sacrifice and resurrection respectively. There's some of that going on in HP as well, when Harry surrenders to Voldemort in the final book. Which also brings to mind Aslan's sacrifice. The HP books are not Christian allergory, not by a long shot, but they do affirm the existence of the soul, that the soul can be corrupted by evil, and there's an afterlife where one is judged and rewarded accordingly.

I can't stand the SJW movement, but I don't see any of that in HP. Hermione is probably the target here, but she's hardly an SJW. Her activism consists of passing out buttons and knitting hats. That's pretty tame compared to anything in the SJW arsenal. No witch hunts, no character assassination, no getting people fired, no boycotts, no depersoning. Hermione's belief to liberate the house elves is a direct nod to the pre Civil War abolitionists, which is pretty basic stuff. A far cry from modern SJW-ism.

Quote from: Aglondir;1091742Doc, I agree with the first two sentences but I'm not sure why you hate HP so much. As you can tell by my quote, I'm a fan of the books. You're absolutely correct about Christian metaphors in Tolkien. Both Frodo and Gandalf are Christ figures, representing sacrifice and resurrection respectively. There's some of that going on in HP as well, when Harry surrenders to Voldemort in the final book. Which also brings to mind Aslan's sacrifice. The HP books are not Christian allergory, not by a long shot, but they do affirm the existence of the soul, that the soul can be corrupted by evil, and there's an afterlife where one is judged and rewarded accordingly.

I can't stand the SJW movement, but I don't see any of that in HP. Hermione is probably the target here, but she's hardly an SJW. Her activism consists of passing out buttons and knitting hats. That's pretty tame compared to anything in the SJW arsenal. No witch hunts, no character assassination, no getting people fired, no boycotts, no depersoning. Hermione's belief to liberate the house elves is a direct nod to the pre Civil War abolitionists, which is pretty basic stuff. A far cry from modern SJW-ism.

I admit my dig at Harry Potter is less about the books themselves and more about their popularity among Millennial SJW's

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1091751I admit my dig at Harry Potter is less about the books themselves and more about their popularity among Millennial SJW's

The Harry Potter books are some of the most popular books of all time (just check out wikipedia's list of best-selling books (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books)), and they came out right in the middle of when "Millennials" (god I hate that nearly meaningless term) were growing up. Of course they are popular among people you don't like, they're popular with damn near every group.

Quote from: Blankman;1091753The Harry Potter books are some of the most popular books of all time (just check out wikipedia's list of best-selling books (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books)), and they came out right in the middle of when "Millennials" (god I hate that nearly meaningless term) were growing up. Of course they are popular among people you don't like, they're popular with damn near every group.

Fair point, I suppose.

Then again, I am a self-hating Millennial (I was born in 1993) and that may have something to do with my disdain for Harry Potter.

Quote from: Blankman;1091753The Harry Potter books are some of the most popular books of all time (just check out wikipedia's list of best-selling books (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books)), and they came out right in the middle of when "Millennials" (god I hate that nearly meaningless term) were growing up. Of course they are popular among people you don't like, they're popular with damn near every group.

Don't expect consistency with Sammy. He tends to sperg first and think a distance second.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1091779Don't expect consistency with Sammy. He tends to sperg first and think a distance second.

Eh, I will own up to that.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1091701JK Rowling wasn't "woke" when she wrote Harry Potter. That's just her getting stupid atop a giant pile of money.

The MCU didn't begin eating a bag of dicks, but its clearly jumped aboard the Woke Wagon in the past few flicks.

Marvel jumped on the Woke Wagon a long, long time ago with their actual comic books, and the fucktard writers they'd gone out of their way to hire for years. All of a sudden Marvel very publicly hated white dudes - you know, the very people who overwhelmingly keep them in business. They may or may not have taken action to correct that course in recent years. I wouldn't know. I stopped giving them money when they hired Gabby Rivera, easily one of the most hateful, racist and sexist SJW's around (but hey, it's ok because she's gay and only hates on white people, especially white men). I know they've since fired her, but in my mind that damage is done. I just had enough of their shit.

I've never read Harry Potter, so I don't know what's in the books, but J.K. Rowling is one obnoxious Woke bandwagoner.

Quote from: JRT;1090714The last thing I think even the Pundit wants for this forum is it to just become a place to bitch about the hobby.

Well, no, I don't want that. I also think there's no real danger of that. Looking at the first page of the RPG forum right now, not counting stickied threads, there's 11 threads that are related in some way to the RPG Culture Wars (and that's if you count threads started by RPGnet refugees complaining about RPG net, and my thread promoting the latest episode of Inappropriate Characters), but there's 25 threads about non-culture-war topics.

So I think we're fine.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1091253Asterisk Dream? Really? Do they think dreaming of the asterisk is better than getting sword reamed?

I'm guessing the * is in response to the accusation that the 'sword' imagery was too phallic and masculine and therefore evil.

Quote from: Naburimannu;1091050It's annoying that I can't bring up ACKS there when Alex had a good solution to a problem

Is the writer of ACKS persona non grata at TBP?

I don't know the system, so maybe there's something in there they found "triggering"?

Quote from: RPGPundit;1091830I'm guessing the * is in response to the accusation that the 'sword' imagery was too phallic and masculine and therefore evil.

That or they are now dreaming of getting reamed in the asterisk.

Quote from: BronzeDragon;1091831Is the writer of ACKS persona non grata at TBP?

I don't know the system, so maybe there's something in there they found "triggering"?

From their Rules and Guidelines:

QuoteBanned Topics:
Fred Phelps / Westboro Baptist Church
Discussions even remotely related to "homosexuality: nature vs. nurture" and/or "does God really hate gays?"
Should transgender people really be considered the gender they say they are?
Spanking children as a disciplinary measure.*
Typical male circumcision.*
*These two topics are not banned in the Parents & Parenting subforum
As per discussion, the moderation staff has decided that discussions about gun control and points related will not occur in threads about mass shootings; they can be spun off as a separate thread as normal. (12/3/2015)
The rpg game ACKS and the game company Autarch, as the designer of the game and owner of the company, Alexander Macris, has threatened the board with legal actions multiple times. (7/6/2018 for explanation from ShannonA)
Support for President Donald Trump and his administration - please see this post/thread for our reasoning on this and the clarifications as to what this means. (10/29/2018)

While not a banned topic, the moderators will no longer mod group attacks against Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and the Border Patrol. (see post here) (6/19/2018)

Note the threats of legal action came after a bunch of smears and claims by the mods of Macris being Alt-right and a Nazi.  You know, the usual.  If you want to see the full explanation you can go here. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/acks-autarch-added-to-forbidden-topics-list.830945/)

Quote from: rgalex;1091847Note the threats of legal action came after a bunch of smears and claims by the mods of Macris being Alt-right and a Nazi.  You know, the usual.  If you want to see the full explanation you can go here. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/acks-autarch-added-to-forbidden-topics-list.830945/)

Thanks.

Quote from: rgalex;1091847Support for President Donald Trump and his administration - please see this post/thread for our reasoning on this and the clarifications as to what this means. (10/29/2018)

Holy shit, are you kidding me?

I didn't know they were this explicit in their wokeness. I always assumed nobody posted in support of Trump because nobody there would anyway...

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1091795I've never read Harry Potter, so I don't know what's in the books, but J.K. Rowling is one obnoxious Woke bandwagoner.

It's a weird situation where I love the books, but not the author. Ursula K. LeGuin was the same.

Quote from: Aglondir;1091969It's a weird situation where I love the books, but not the author.

I don't find that weird at all. It's healthier in the long run to separate Creator from Creation.

Quote from: Blankman;1091753The Harry Potter books are some of the most popular books of all time (just check out wikipedia's list of best-selling books (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books)), and they came out right in the middle of when "Millennials" (god I hate that nearly meaningless term) were growing up. Of course they are popular among people you don't like, they're popular with damn near every group.

What amazes me is that Dream of the Red Chamber is one of the greatest selling books of all time. I thought it was just an obscure academic text I had to read in college. But it's up there with Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter in terms of sales.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1091253Asterisk Dream? Really? .....

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.aXvIbkeMXCQ89bAWGIZLBQHaHa%26pid%3DApi&f=1)

Quote from: Trond;1092602(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.aXvIbkeMXCQ89bAWGIZLBQHaHa%26pid%3DApi&f=1)

Well deserved after defeating Caesar's legions I say!

Quote from: Aglondir;1092339What amazes me is that Dream of the Red Chamber is one of the greatest selling books of all time. I thought it was just an obscure academic text I had to read in college. But it's up there with Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter in terms of sales.

   We often forget how huge a market China is.

Quote from: AglondirWhat amazes me is that Dream of the Red Chamber is one of the greatest selling books of all time. I thought it was just an obscure academic text I had to read in college. But it's up there with Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter in terms of sales.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1092605We often forget how huge a market China is.

But it's interesting that there are very few Chinese titles in the best-selling books -- except specifically for Dream of the Red Chamber which is in the Wikipedia top ten. In the top 100 there are more Japanese than Chinese, it looks to me. I suspect there might not be good book sales statistics coming out of China.  I started reading Dream of the Red Chamber recently but got side-tracked by other books.

Quote from: rgalex;1091847From their Rules and Guidelines:


Note the threats of legal action came after a bunch of smears and claims by the mods of Macris being Alt-right and a Nazi.  You know, the usual.  If you want to see the full explanation you can go here. (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/acks-autarch-added-to-forbidden-topics-list.830945/)

When this happened I was intrigued by the implications. Basically any creator in "bad standing" (banned) on rpg.net has every reason in the world to send their own notice. If I was a creator, I would definitely have a sleeper account, quietly scanning occasionally for such defamation. If it reached point X, then sending a letter of intent out. If it was bad enough for enough creators, perhaps building an alliance, all using the same lawyer that the creators perhaps pay a small amount to in a pact for said lawyer to act if it came to that. They've already bowed to ACKS. (Love to hear a lawyer's thoughts.) I wouldn't want to be rpg.net.

So...are the swords still dreaming?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1097291So...are the swords still dreaming?

They have released some reskins of PbtA games like The Veil and some other shit, developed dual wielding rules for a game without combat and spawn a fork called RolPunk (https://twitter.com/hashtag/rolpunk?src=hashtag_click) The usual suspects with pronouns in their bio are saying it's the shit. And the assholes are daring call their shit OSR.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1097293They have released some reskins of PbtA games like The Veil and some other shit, developed dual wielding rules for a game without combat and spawn a fork called RolPunk (https://twitter.com/hashtag/rolpunk?src=hashtag_click) The usual suspects with pronouns in their bio are saying it's the shit. And the assholes are daring call their shit OSR.

Honestly the rolpunk (ugh it hurts to say) manifesto wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the forced cursing, it sounds like some kid pretending to be badass. Its basically rule zero but with an added layer of the worst interpretation of "punk"

Quote from: Slambo;1097298Honestly the rolpunk (ugh it hurts to say) manifesto wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the forced cursing, it sounds like some kid pretending to be badass. Its basically rule zero but with an added layer of the worst interpretation of "punk"

And it's all about not excluding anybody, except those bad bad people who don't toe the party line.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1097299And it's all about not excluding anybody, except those bad bad people who don't toe the party line.

I mean, probably, I don't doubt it, I more skimmed than read any of it. I couldn't keep going past the fifteenth time it tired to be hip and use fuck in a way that didn't sound forced (they succeeded 0 times)

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1097299And it's all about not excluding anybody, except those bad bad people who don't toe the party line.

To be fair, you can't get much more punk than that. :D

They choose their name well. If they think this is going to displace or destroy the OSR they are dreaming. I don't think these crybullies know what the OSR is. This stinks of obey us without question because it is for your own good you Neanderthals.

They're incapable of actually creating, at least anything that isn't abject drivel. The goal from the beginning was just to try to destroy the OSR, and it failed.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1097625They're incapable of actually creating, at least anything that isn't abject drivel. The goal from the beginning was just to try to destroy the OSR, and it failed.

Evil can not create, it can only corrupt.

What's funny to me about all this reactionary angst towards OSR (which is what I consider the game creation attempt this thread is about) is that I feel like OSR has a much more diverse developer crowd than any other genre of RPGs. Whether that be skin-tone, nationality, economic class, gender, political leaning, sexuality, etc. People from all walks of life seem to be able to make acceptable if not good content for the OSR genre.

I think this angst comes predominately from the existential horror generated by conservatives in that mix making entertaining media. The rest of the angst comes from young people not liking old things.

Why does the "diversity" of the designers matter?
Why does the "diversity" of the artists matter?

News flash. It does not.

Quote from: Omega;1097723Why does the "diversity" of the designers matter?
Why does the "diversity" of the artists matter?

News flash. It does not.

Imo diversity of ideas is important.

Quote from: Slambo;1097727Imo diversity of ideas is important.

Yes, but if you have a bunch of postmodernist assholes of diferent skin color/sex/sexuality are you getting diversity of ideas?

And when said postmodernist assholes say "diversity" they are talking only about superficial traits.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1097731Yes, but if you have a bunch of postmodernist assholes of diferent skin color/sex/sexuality are you getting diversity of ideas?

And when said postmodernist assholes say "diversity" they are talking only about superficial traits.

That depends now, doesn't it?
But you go right on assuming it do not, and when it seem to do, that it is merely superficial.

Although, it is clear that it do not automatically give diversity, and that utter homogenenic .... (my english currently fails a bit here) ... state of things is not automatically unable to produce variety of ideas, and it is also clear, that if an idea is permeating a movement, it might get so obvious that it drowns out the diversity it do include.
And thus, if the "diversity" is propagated too much, there is also the clear risk of the WORD becoming the propagated thing, and not what Diversity actually means.

EDIT:
My point is, that yes, even if they are "postmodernist assholes", they can indeed produce diversity, just like a cadre of .... all .... (insert colour) (insert sex) (insert political angle) is fully capable of creating diversity.

Quote from: Catelf;1097734That depends now, doesn't it?
But you go right on assuming it do not, and when it seem to do, that it is merely superficial.

Although, it is clear that it do not automatically give diversity, and that utter homogenenic .... (my english currently fails a bit here) ... state of things is not automatically unable to produce variety of ideas, and it is also clear, that if an idea is permeating a movement, it might get so obvious that it drowns out the diversity it do include.
And thus, if the "diversity" is propagated too much, there is also the clear risk of the WORD becoming the propagated thing, and not what Diversity actually means.

EDIT:
My point is, that yes, even if they are "postmodernist assholes", they can indeed produce diversity, just like a cadre of .... all .... (insert colour) (insert sex) (insert political angle) is fully capable of creating diversity.

Postmodernist asshole is an ideology, therefore it follows that people with the same ideology think alike, hence no diversity of thought.

Race/sex/sexuality ARE NOT ideologies, therefore belonging to any combination of those doesn't mean you think alike any other random person that has the exact same combination of those superficial traits.

And then you go back to ideologies "political angle", which goes back to my first refutation of your argument.

Now keep on trying to equate superficial immutable characteristics with ideology, please.

And now back to talking about why any character of any superficial characteristic should be a valid target or none can be.

Quote from: Omega;1097723Why does the "diversity" of the designers matter?
Why does the "diversity" of the artists matter?

News flash. It does not.

It does, you just do not see it, because it isn't obvious.

But yes, i do admit that "Forced Diversity" do hurt, and that it also may hurt to the extent of resulting in a severe backlash.
.... which we have seen.
...And that the act of forcing matters ALSO risk run rampant so that it goes too far, as to force things "just because" instead of actually having a good reason.
.... And yes, "Forced Diversity" do seem to be in that state now, at least from some viewpoints.
.....Which means that the backlash has already started.
.......And so has the counter against the backlash, because the backlash has actually ALSO already gone on for long enough to lose its track.

Quote from: Catelf;1097738It does, you just do not see it, because it isn't obvious.

It does not.

The colour of a persons skin, or their gender, or whatever, is absolutely irrelevant to a persons ability to write a good game or do a good piece of art, or run a company, or whatever.

Hiring someone solely because of their skin colour or gender or whatever is tokenism or filling some quota or worse yet, mere virtue signalling.

If the only reason you want to hire me is because I am handicapped then no that is not diversity. It is everything but diversity.

You want to reduce us to a set to collect. A quota to meet.

Some of us have had to live through this stupidity before and all this new "diversity movement" is is the same old gag all over again doing far far more damage than any good it such dehumanization could do. And now we are starting to see RPG companies wanting to enforce that at every table if they could. "Hey Bob? I got an extra cripple and nigger at my table. Wanna trade for that spare fag and gook you have so I can complete my Diversity Set?"

Maybee they will sell us in randomized boxes.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1097737Postmodernist asshole is an ideology, therefore it follows that people with the same ideology think alike, hence no diversity of thought.

Race/sex/sexuality ARE NOT ideologies, therefore belonging to any combination of those doesn't mean you think alike any other random person that has the exact same combination of those superficial traits.

And then you go back to ideologies "political angle", which goes back to my first refutation of your argument.

Now keep on trying to equate superficial immutable characteristics with ideology, please.

And now back to talking about why any character of any superficial characteristic should be a valid target or none can be.

Well, we have a slight problem here.
One of them are you not grasping how diversity works, nor where it may show up, nor how much of obvious impact that it may leave.
Another is the risk of you reading things into what i write/say that i did not ... or at least did not mean.

And i am not going shitty doublespeak claiming that homogeneous forms always lead to diversity nor vice versa, i say that either are not automatically exempted from the other, a matter that should be obvious.

What i ALSO pointed out as obvious, is that an overhanging idea easily DROWNS OUT said variety/diversity, but that do not mean that it do not exist, mind you.

Also, i think that we both knows that there were a time when the "common man" claimed to KNOW that certain superficial characteristics were the same as having a certain ideology.
We should know today that THAT is not true, yet it still happens today ... in the west ... with Arabs, currently.
My point is that we are not immune to that sort of thinking!

I still claim to be a "leftie", but i know today that shit i "learned" while growing up, and even during when i was questioning things, were damned utter LIES, and the worst is that it was told as truths.
Not only lies about the left from the right, but also lies about the left from the left, lies about the right from the left, and lies about the right .... from the right ...
Again, WE ARE NOT IMMUNE AGAINST THAT SHIT !

So, yes, there are Diversity within ideologies as well, and if you do not realize that, then you are merely lying to yourself.

And yes, i do address you specifically, because of the quote from Orwell that you (currently) have in your description, about TRUTH being revolutionary.
I like the quote, it is logical, and true ....
And because of that, i also do not like when you fall into the same trap as the one that you clearly do not want to drop in.

Quote from: Omega;1097739It does not.

The colour of a persons skin, or their gender, or whatever, is absolutely irrelevant to a persons ability to write a good game or do a good piece of art, or run a company, or whatever.

Hiring someone solely because of their skin colour or gender or whatever is tokenism or filling some quota or worse yet, mere virtue signalling.

If the only reason you want to hire me is because I am handicapped then no that is not diversity. It is everything but diversity.

You want to reduce us to a set to collect. A quota to meet.

Some of us have had to live through this stupidity before and all this new "diversity movement" is is the same old gag all over again doing far far more damage than any good it such dehumanization could do. And now we are starting to see RPG companies wanting to enforce that at every table if they could. "Hey Bob? I got an extra cripple and nigger at my table. Wanna trade for that spare fag and gook you have so I can complete my Diversity Set?"

Maybee they will sell us in randomized boxes.

Yes it does, because it often mean that the person doing it have a different outlook on things.
Yes, that outlook may seem or even be superficial at times, but really, this is entertainment, and here, both surface and depth are key parts.

I actually don't mind "tokenism", because one has to start somewhere, and tokens is a start, it is what you do afterwards with those "tokens" that are important.
I agree that it cannot replace skill, but skill takes time to develop ... so where to put the line?
No Diversity?
Some?
Only Skill counts?
Meh, "Skill" is actually a bit hard to spot in game creation, unless it is the vague definitions of Great, Competent, or Sub-par, and even there things easily are confused with Style ...

There is over-focus or even downright obsession with "Diversity" in certain groups though, and ... well, they are a bit of a problem, but there is ALWAYS problematic matters, things to quarrel about.
If this is merely one of those things, then i do not care.

As for the "collectible" jokes ...
I guess i'd fill the "Furry" slot.
Or the Transgender slot.

There is always things to get insulted about, no matter who or what you are.
It is interesting, that the tables are a bit turned today, and you might feel like a pariah or nothing just because you are white, male, or straight hetero ...
It is not fun to feel like that.
And so people responds !
We just wanna be ourselves.
And i just go ... welcome to our world.
I'm technically a white male, but i'm actually a Furry Therian Otherkin Bisexual Transwoman ... and a bit trans-racial too (as if the Otherkin part weren't weird enough) ...
Yes, i'm a metal snowflake, special even among the weirdos, but you would currently not see that by looking at my current physical form.
I'm not happy, ... all the damned stereotypes ... oh, yeah, i have some weird mental problems too (of course i have to have that as well, why not, ...)
My ACTUAL POINT IS ....
NO ONE LIKES TO BE A PARIAH !
...Unless you are severely masochistic.
No matter your skincolour, ideology, gender, hobby, style or other thing.
It was just required some shit like this to get "normies" to end up on the receiving end of that feeling, and to perhaps understand, but really, none of us wanted this, not really.
...And those that did want it ... i can't say i blame them.

...Damn, sorry for the unwarranted rant ... i think?

* sighs *

Well, this is where we have to go from now, i guess.
There is no going back, we have to fix things now.
Preferably ASAP.

Quote from: Catelf;1097740Well, we have a slight problem here.
One of them are you not grasping how diversity works, nor where it may show up, nor how much of obvious impact that it may leave.
Another is the risk of you reading things into what i write/say that i did not ... or at least did not mean.

And i am not going shitty doublespeak claiming that homogeneous forms always lead to diversity nor vice versa, i say that either are not automatically exempted from the other, a matter that should be obvious.

What i ALSO pointed out as obvious, is that an overhanging idea easily DROWNS OUT said variety/diversity, but that do not mean that it do not exist, mind you.

Also, i think that we both knows that there were a time when the "common man" claimed to KNOW that certain superficial characteristics were the same as having a certain ideology.
We should know today that THAT is not true, yet it still happens today ... in the west ... with Arabs, currently.
My point is that we are not immune to that sort of thinking!

I still claim to be a "leftie", but i know today that shit i "learned" while growing up, and even during when i was questioning things, were damned utter LIES, and the worst is that it was told as truths.
Not only lies about the left from the right, but also lies about the left from the left, lies about the right from the left, and lies about the right .... from the right ...
Again, WE ARE NOT IMMUNE AGAINST THAT SHIT !

So, yes, there are Diversity within ideologies as well, and if you do not realize that, then you are merely lying to yourself.

And yes, i do address you specifically, because of the quote from Orwell that you (currently) have in your description, about TRUTH being revolutionary.
I like the quote, it is logical, and true ....
And because of that, i also do not like when you fall into the same trap as the one that you clearly do not want to drop in.

Lets see if I can get this thru:

"Diversity" of superficial and immutable characteristics doesn't equate diversity of thought. It doesn't preclude it but it sure as fuck doesn't guarantee it either.

And, hiring on such basis is racism/sexism/etc.

Because to have "positive" discrimination you NEED to discriminate against those you're not discriminating for. Ergo this is a bigoted idea, so I cannot be in favor of it. It goes against my principles.

Now, regarding truth, That thing X is possible, doesn't mean it's probable. For instance it's possible that the Sun goes nova and incinerates earth in 24 hours from now. BUT is it probable?

Same goes for your point about having people with the same ideology and still having diversity of thought, it is possible, and in the case of some ideologies even probable, but not in the case of the postmodernist assholes, their ideology precludes it, by even making the question if it's good to discriminate based on race you're an heretic and must be burned at the stake.

So, you're wrong and no matter how many hypotheticals you create this will not change. There is such thing as truth after all and zealots are gonna behave as zealots no matter what religion they belong to. And don't kid yourself, SocJus IS a cult.

Celebrating physical diversity implies that you think physical traits cause certain mental perspectives. In current progressive ideology, it's not that all people are equal, it's that differences are better but those same people should be given special advantages.

OSR developers also have a great diversity of thought. That's what bothers internet slacktivists.

Quote from: Omega;1097739It does not.
The colour of a persons skin, or their gender, or whatever, is absolutely irrelevant to a persons ability to write a good game or do a good piece of art, or run a company, or whatever.

In a perfect world, this would be true, the ability to do those things is irrelevant to skin colour and gender and so on.

In a world where one's gender or skin colour can affect the education one receives and the chances to advance to areas of higher learning, thus affecting things like the ability to write a good game, paint or run a company, skin colour and gender can be very relevant.  If only to point out the effects of racism and misogyny on the ability to create.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1097781Celebrating physical diversity implies that you think physical traits cause certain mental perspectives. In current progressive ideology, it's not that all people are equal, it's that differences are better but those same people should be given special advantages.

OSR developers also have a great diversity of thought. That's what bothers internet slacktivists.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Quote from: pdboddy;1097791In a perfect world, this would be true, the ability to do those things is irrelevant to skin colour and gender and so on.

In a world where one's gender or skin colour can affect the education one receives and the chances to advance to areas of higher learning, thus affecting things like the ability to write a good game, paint or run a company, skin colour and gender can be very relevant.  If only to point out the effects of racism and misogyny on the ability to create.

AFAIK Mike Pondsmith has been black most...likely all...of his life. He's created one of the most endearing and enduring RPGs ever. Nobody really knew it then or likely cared because it's a great game. It's only an issue now because of all this stupid SJW nonsense and its obsession with infantilizing blacks and women so they can be used.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1097792AFAIK Mike Pondsmith has been black most...likely all...of his life. He's created one of the most endearing and enduring RPGs ever. Nobody really knew it then or likely cared because it's a great game. It's only an issue now because of all this stupid SJW nonsense and its obsession with infantilizing blacks and women so they can be used.

It's not an issue to people who aren't SJW.  Pondsmith's a cool dude, and he's created several endearing and enduring RPGs.  He'll still be doing cool stuff long after the SJW fad blows away in the dust.

Quote from: Slambo;1097727Imo diversity of ideas is important.

...and that includes ideas you don't like hearing about. That's REAL freedom.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1097625They're incapable of actually creating, at least anything that isn't abject drivel. The goal from the beginning was just to try to destroy the OSR, and it failed.

Sort of like Morgoth  and Sauron except not as interesting.

Quote from: pdboddy;1097791In a perfect world, this would be true, the ability to do those things is irrelevant to skin colour and gender and so on.

In a world where one's gender or skin colour can affect the education one receives and the chances to advance to areas of higher learning, thus affecting things like the ability to write a good game, paint or run a company, skin colour and gender can be very relevant.  If only to point out the effects of racism and misogyny on the ability to create.

I lived through that.

Quote from: pdboddy;1097791In a perfect world, this would be true, the ability to do those things is irrelevant to skin colour and gender and so on.

In a world where one's gender or skin colour can affect the education one receives and the chances to advance to areas of higher learning, thus affecting things like the ability to write a good game, paint or run a company, skin colour and gender can be very relevant.  If only to point out the effects of racism and misogyny on the ability to create.

So women, gays and trans in islamic countries, and generally people living in shithole countries?

Hey!

Let's AS be magical transgender people who do stuff!

I'm so tired of purple-haired gamers calling me "inappropriate".

Fuck Trans gaming -- because it interferes with REAL gaming.

Your politics do not belong in my game.

Quote from: Theory of Games;1098154Hey!

Let's AS be magical transgender people who do stuff!

I'm so tired of purple-haired gamers calling me "inappropriate".

Fuck Trans gaming -- because it interferes with REAL gaming.

Your politics do not belong in my game.

Amen!

Tranny Punks Fuck Off! Punch A Commie For Mommy!

Honestly, I feel bad for the people who are actually trans, having to struggle with Gender Dysphoria Disorder while being lumped in with insane far-left transtrenders whether you want to be grouped with them or not.

Quote from: pdboddy;1097791In a perfect world, this would be true, the ability to do those things is irrelevant to skin colour and gender and so on.

In a world where one's gender or skin colour can affect the education one receives and the chances to advance to areas of higher learning, thus affecting things like the ability to write a good game, paint or run a company, skin colour and gender can be very relevant.  If only to point out the effects of racism and misogyny on the ability to create.

You realize women make up over 60 per cent of people who graduate from college today, don't you? And that the fields related to writing - the Humanites and social sciences - are skewed even more female? 80 per cent of the people who work in publishing are women.

Quote from: Haffrung;1098164You realize women make up over 60 per cent of people who graduate from college today, don't you? And that the fields related to writing - the Humanites and social sciences - are skewed even more female? 80 per cent of the people who work in publishing are women.

Your facts are sexist you bigot!

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1098166Your facts are sexist you bigot!

They also dominate several art circles. And have a strong presence in Fantasy art and even RPG art. And even some notable Minis sculptors for Grenadier, Ral Partha and Games Workshop.

Quote from: Omega;1098221They also dominate several art circles. And have a strong presence in Fantasy art and even RPG art. And even some notable Minis sculptors for Grenadier, Ral Partha and Games Workshop.

This forum is full of Muhsoggykneestic nerds!

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1098120So women, gays and trans in islamic countries, and generally people living in shithole countries?

Ah right, obviously that has never happened in non-shithole countries.  Racism and homophobia doesn't happen here, right?

Quote from: Haffrung;1098164You realize women make up over 60 per cent of people who graduate from college today, don't you? And that the fields related to writing - the Humanites and social sciences - are skewed even more female? 80 per cent of the people who work in publishing are women.

Yes, but how does that change what I've said?  Racism and homophobia and sexism can affect people's creativity.

Quote from: pdboddy;1098573Yes, but how does that change what I've said?  Racism and homophobia and sexism can affect people's creativity.

Only if they let it.

Quote from: pdboddy;1098572Ah right, obviously that has never happened in non-shithole countries.  Racism and homophobia doesn't happen here, right?

As an institutionalized thing that prevents people from getting an education? or a job? No, you might find individual examples but this isn't a system built to keep them down. Now's the point where you disregard linear time and bring up shit from the distant past (over 2 decades old).

Quote from: pdboddy;1098573Yes, but how does that change what I've said?  Racism and homophobia and sexism can affect people's creativity.

Wait, Are you alluding to internalized buzzword?

Dithering aside.

Have they actually shown any progress or did it putter out or self destruct as some predicted?

Stay on topic, folks. No general political observations.

Thanks.

Quote from: Omega;1098602Dithering aside.

Have they actually shown any progress or did it putter out or self destruct as some predicted?

This thread is the top search result in Google for me.  I think it may have died.

Quote from: pdboddy;1098610This thread is the top search result in Google for me.  I think it may have died.

Oh, the ironing.

Quote from: pdboddy;1098610This thread is the top search result in Google for me.  I think it may have died.

They had a schism, now there's RolPunk (or was it PunkRol?), and it looked like some of them was busy doing a PbtA hack.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1098617They had a schism, now there's RolPunk (or was it PunkRol?), and it looked like some of them was busy doing a PbtA hack.

Lefties devolving in to infighting? Imagine my shock.

Quote from: pdboddy;1098573Racism and homophobia and sexism can affect people's creativity.

Especially if you hammer it into them really thoroughly from early youth that they are utterly disadvantaged by all the systemic bigotry and will forever face a terrible uphill battle in life. If you tell a kid her whole life that the world of gaming hates women, do you really think you're increasing her odds of producing creative gaming material?

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1098617They had a schism, now there's RolPunk (or was it PunkRol?), and it looked like some of them was busy doing a PbtA hack.

CyberPunk? :D

Quote from: Zalman;1098641Especially if you hammer it into them really thoroughly from early youth that they are utterly disadvantaged by all the systemic bigotry and will forever face a terrible uphill battle in life. If you tell a kid her whole life that the world of gaming hates women, do you really think you're increasing her odds of producing creative gaming material?

Something I have told many a intersectional ideologue. It's beyond their keen to grasp the results of their own actions, they are like children (or worst) never able to think what will be the consequences of their actions.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1098646CyberPunk? :D

More like SoyPunk in their case.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1098617They had a schism, now there's RolPunk (or was it PunkRol?), and it looked like some of them was busy doing a PbtA hack.

Is that with or without the pound symbol?

Er, sorry, hashtag?

EDIT: I don't know, sounds edgy enough to cut yourself on.  https://anticheleggende.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/rolpunk.pdf

EDIT2: If it's not that, then I don't know... posts about RolPunk no E are from 2011. >.>

Quote from: pdboddy;1098650Is that with or without the pound symbol?

Er, sorry, hashtag?

EDIT: I don't know, sounds edgy enough to cut yourself on.  https://anticheleggende.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/rolpunk.pdf

EDIT2: If it's not that, then I don't know... posts about RolPunk no E are from 2011. >.>

Yes, that's it. And yes it does sound edgy.

Quote from: pdboddy;1098650https://anticheleggende.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/rolpunk.pdf

"Fuck them in the ear with a rusty fucking chainsaw,
pretentious fucks."

O-okay? I mean, this thing is titled as a "manifesto" and they've typed the word "fuck" and "shit" in it more than I heard in the entirety of my middle school sex-ed class, plus denouncing 'fascism' in the meantime... includes the term "end of fucking sentence"... but I suppose those don't count as pretentious.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1098648More like SoyPunk in their case.

Oh, snaps! Cold, bro. Cold.

But true!

Quote from: Antiquation!;1098660"Fuck them in the ear with a rusty fucking chainsaw,
pretentious fucks."

O-okay? I mean, this thing is titled as a "manifesto" and they've typed the word "fuck" and "shit" in it more than I heard in the entirety of my middle school sex-ed class, plus denouncing 'fascism' in the meantime... includes the term "end of fucking sentence"... but I suppose those don't count as pretentious.

That thing reads like a rated R version of an 80s tobacco company ad, written by some college kids who just discovered Marx.

Quote from: Heavy Josh;1098689That thing reads like a rated R version of an 80s tobacco company ad, written by some college kids who just discovered Marx.

Kudos for their efforts I guess, hopefully they'll realize how ridiculous they sound in ten years and decide to grow up like the rest of us had to.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1098693Kudos for their efforts I guess, hopefully they'll realize how ridiculous they sound in ten years and decide to grow up like the rest of us had to.

Ugh, there's nothing to congratulate here. It's just another screed saying "GO PLAY" to some captive group of ideologues trying to navigate that delicate time between puberty and... old age.

Yeah. We get it. Play your games. Make it as political as you need it to be, even if that's exhausting and alienating to everyone else. That's why we're here too. Shut up. You sound like a parody of yourself.

The thing is, part of me wonders if it's exactly that: a massive parody.

I'm going to write up my adventures for tomorrow night. We'll see what insanity my players go for.

Just ignore this crap. Who has time for it?

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;1098749Just ignore this crap. Who has time for it?

Pretty much the same people that spend time on gaming forums. :p

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;1098749Just ignore this crap. Who has time for it?

You do, apparently.  :P

Quote from: pdboddy;1098572Ah right, obviously that has never happened in non-shithole countries.  Racism and homophobia doesn't happen here, right?

Obviously you think homophobia and gender inequality occur at much higher degree and frequency in non-shit hole countries.

Quote from: Heavy Josh;1098729The thing is, part of me wonders if it's exactly that: a massive parody.

Rereading it with this suggestion in mind, it does seem like something that could have been written as deliberately masturbatory and infantile as possible...

Quote from: Antiquation!;1098786Rereading it with this suggestion in mind, it does seem like something that could have been written as deliberately masturbatory and infantile as possible...

It is impossible on the present-day internet to tell trolling from a stupid position held sincerely.

Quote from: ThatChrisGuy;1098822It is impossible on the present-day internet to tell trolling from a stupid position held sincerely.

That's part of what makes it so exciting! ;)

Quote from: ThatChrisGuy;1098822It is impossible on the present-day internet to tell trolling from a stupid position held sincerely.

Hell, it is near impossible to tell that offline too.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1098828That's part of what makes it so exciting! ;)

Adventure, heh. Excitement, heh... I do not need such things. In my politics, especially.

Quote from: GeekEclectic;1091263Ignoring context and assuming worst intentions are pretty much foundational to how they operate.

Sounds like standard operating procedure on the internet.

Quote from: pdboddy;1098610This thread is the top search result in Google for me.  I think it may have died.

Not surprising, as back when #Gamergate was at its height the top results were all from people complaining about it like Zoë Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, and Brianna Wu. And as such, this controversy is just as hollow.

Has anything been made yet? It should be compiled (ideally without curse words :o) for sake of access, and possibly future comparison. I mean, DIY Rules Everything Around Me, right? :D Should be some product to bubble up from that promising acronym.

Creating stuff is hard when you have PSTD from fighting gamergaters, white privilege and the patriarchy on Twitter all the time. Expecting these bold and beautiful people to actually do something sounds very ableist of you. You know who did things? THE FUCKING NAZIS. Fucking shitlord.

Quote from: Morblot;1099085Creating stuff is hard when you have PSTD from fighting gamergaters, white privilege and the patriarchy on Twitter all the time. Expecting these bold and beautiful people to actually do something sounds very ableist of you. You know who did things? THE FUCKING NAZIS. Fucking shitlord.

You won the internets. :D :D :D

Quote from: Morblot;1099085You know who did things? THE FUCKING NAZIS.

Morblot, you're a terrible human being, aka you'll do great here. Please post more!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3716[/ATTACH]

Quote from: Morblot;1099085Creating stuff is hard when you have PSTD from fighting gamergaters, white privilege and the patriarchy on Twitter all the time. Expecting these bold and beautiful people to actually do something sounds very ableist of you. You know who did things? THE FUCKING NAZIS. Fucking shitlord.

Thanks for making my day! :D

It's PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. :( I'm literally Hitler now. (:p)

Or PSTD is Post-Stress Trump Disorder?

For beyond stress lies....the Trump! Bwahahaha!

I must do it, forgive me forum rules! :o

You mean Post-Trump Stress Disorder? :eek: If re-elected does it turn into Chronic Trump Stress? :eek:

(and now I am Himmler, too. :()

Reading all the nastiness in this thread, it's easy to understand why some would want to escape anything related to osr.  I'm glad I don't "belong."

Well, if people are interested in what they've come up with, a good sampling is here:

https://itch.io/jam/dreamjam

Quote from: Shazzles34;1099690Reading all the nastiness in this thread, it's easy to understand why some would want to escape anything related to osr.  I'm glad I don't "belong."

Show us in the doll where the mean words touched your fee fees, I swear we really, really really care.

Quote from: JRT;1099694Well, if people are interested in what they've come up with, a good sampling is here:

https://itch.io/jam/dreamjam

Thanks, I had forgotten the hilarity of their 9 principles.

Quote from: Shazzles34;1099690Reading all the nastiness in this thread, it's easy to understand why some would want to escape anything related to osr.  I'm glad I don't "belong."

The OSR gained tremendously by having these clowns "escape".

If all SJWs would "escape" the entire hobby, all RPGing would benefit.

Quote from: Shazzles34;1099690Reading all the nastiness in this thread, it's easy to understand why some would want to escape anything related to osr.  I'm glad I don't "belong."

First post, eh?

Quote from: Shazzles34;1099690Reading all the nastiness in this thread, it's easy to understand why some would want to escape anything related to osr.  I'm glad I don't "belong."

Wait, who the hell does "belong"?

We're a bunch of idiots who happen to all like elves. Most of us have nothing else in common.

This isn't a cult, it's a hobby.

Quote from: Shazzles34;1099690Reading all the nastiness in this thread, it's easy to understand why some would want to escape anything related to osr.  I'm glad I don't "belong."

A lot of progressive liberals making things for OSR.

But I'm guessing you don't fit in with them either....

Quote from: Shazzles34;1099690Reading all the nastiness in this thread, it's easy to understand why some would want to escape anything related to osr.  I'm glad I don't "belong."

My, aren't you the tenderhearted little thing. A little criticism is "all the nastiness?" You would have died after an hour on UseNet. I am not very involved in the OSR side of things, unless one stretches the definition a great deal, but some of my favorite gaming people are.
Just curious; whose sockpuppet are you?

OSR to me meant an old school 80s vibe to the game, so if someone is making an OSR engine despite going a bit further to the left of me, that's fine. If it makes them money, fine. But the industry does have it's share of apples that don't play well with others and my political social comment for the thread: as gamers, we can be all over the spectrum and still enjoy going murder hobo on orcs, dragons, etc. at the same table. That doesn't mean we need to tolerate inappropriate or unprofessional behavior.

Quote from: JRT;1099694Well, if people are interested in what they've come up with, a good sampling is here:

https://itch.io/jam/dreamjam

OK, even I rolled my eyes when I looked at the submissions. :rolleyes: It is like all the self-indulgence of convoluted one-shot Storygames and South Park's send up of indie film festival culture ("nothing but gay cowboys eating pudding," - Cartman). And half seem behind a paywall. Children, you are an unknown property, for a hyper-niche, poorly paid hobby, at an "art jam." The best this is is a calling card, not crowdfunding for your next sandwich. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Quote from: TNMalt;1099766my political social comment for the thread: as gamers, we can be all over the spectrum and still enjoy going murder hobo on orcs, dragons, etc. at the same table.

100% agree!

That's why my rule is no politics at the game table. Leave that shit at home and show up to toss dice, eat cheetos and slay orcs/aliens/mutants!

Quote from: Shazzles34;1099690Reading all the nastiness in this thread, it's easy to understand why some would want to escape anything related to osr.  I'm glad I don't "belong."

The nastiness is superficial, and the equivalent of banter between friends. None of these people would seek to get you banned, doxxed, swatted, unemployed, or destitute, and they're certainly not going to shut you down just for disagreeing with them.

The #SwordDream crowd on the other hand would.

Quote from: JRT;1099694Well, if people are interested in what they've come up with, a good sampling is here:

https://itch.io/jam/dreamjam

As much as I consider the basis of their movement to be misguided, it's still good to see creative collectives.

Quote from: Azraele;1099707This isn't a cult, it's a hobby.

If only everyone held this opinion.

Quote from: TNMalt;1099766That doesn't mean we need to tolerate inappropriate or unprofessional behavior.

Like?

Quote from: JRT;1099694Well, if people are interested in what they've come up with, a good sampling is here:

https://itch.io/jam/dreamjam

Good Lord, that is some pretentious SJW hipster nonsense.

I've thought about the possibility of an anti-SJW parody of Sword Dream, one that is explicitly pro-Western and libertarian in its approach.

Especially if we do it using one of the SJW sacred cow games like Chronicles of Darkness or those god-awful Story Games

Anyone up for some parodies and meme magick?

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1100720I've thought about the possibility of an anti-SJW parody of Sword Dream, one that is explicitly pro-Western and libertarian in its approach.

Just going to drop this here, because its awesome:

https://reason.com/2017/06/15/dd-creator-gary-gygaxs-fbi-records-make

Quote from: Azraele;1099707We're a bunch of idiots who happen to all like elves.

How dare you! I hate elves!

Quote from: tenbones;1100740How dare you! I hate elves!

Ah... Talislanta makes so much more sense now.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1100720Good Lord, that is some pretentious SJW hipster nonsense.

I've thought about the possibility of an anti-SJW parody of Sword Dream, one that is explicitly pro-Western and libertarian in its approach.

Especially if we do it using one of the SJW sacred cow games like Chronicles of Darkness or those god-awful Story Games

Anyone up for some parodies and meme magick?

What's the point of parodying something that already is an inadvertent parody? Make a good game. You seem to *want* to engage with these people on their level.

I think these games look... really bad. BUT! that's my personal tastes. If it makes them happy, let them play their games. You want to spend your time and creative energy *in direct* relation to them - that's up to you. I say go make a GOOD GAME that you want to play and run. Unless of course you have the most fun playing parodies of crappy games as the best investment of your time and effort.

It kinda sounds like you're into "revenge gaming". I see little point in that.

Quote from: Brendan;1100741Ah... Talislanta makes so much more sense now.

that's it.... just a little closer....

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1100720Good Lord, that is some pretentious SJW hipster nonsense.

I've thought about the possibility of an anti-SJW parody of Sword Dream, one that is explicitly pro-Western and libertarian in its approach.

Especially if we do it using one of the SJW sacred cow games like Chronicles of Darkness or those god-awful Story Games

Anyone up for some parodies and meme magick?

No can do.  I am too busy with my own game that is designed to be a fork for both World of Darkness and Chronicles of Darkness.  I don't like where Onyx Path is going and had done in the past.  Not to mention Paradox Interactive killed off White Wolf, then again those dumb fucks went too woke for their own good which the people in my circle of friends are still making fun of to this very day.  My freelance artist is already showing off the cover to Exalted 3rd Edition of the Dragon Blooded book as things not to do in the art class he teaches at his home country.

Quote from: tenbones;1100742What's the point of parodying something that already is an inadvertent parody? Make a good game. You seem to *want* to engage with these people on their level.

I think these games look... really bad. BUT! that's my personal tastes. If it makes them happy, let them play their games. You want to spend your time and creative energy *in direct* relation to them - that's up to you. I say go make a GOOD GAME that you want to play and run. Unless of course you have the most fun playing parodies of crappy games as the best investment of your time and effort.

It kinda sounds like you're into "revenge gaming". I see little point in that.

Revenge Gaming?

I honestly never looked at it like that.

When you put it that way, it is pretty fucked up of me to try that and I would not enjoy it one bit.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1100761Revenge Gaming?

I honestly never looked at it like that.

When you put it that way, it is pretty fucked up of me to try that and I would not enjoy it one bit.

The whole Insectionalist/SJW movement  has fuck all to do with equity it is all about revenge and if they win the straight/cis/white allies will go to the guillotine like the rest of us.

Quote from: JRT;1099694Well, if people are interested in what they've come up with, a good sampling is here:

https://itch.io/jam/dreamjam

I would play GOONS (https://itch.io/jam/dreamjam/rate/445305). Maybe even run it as a one-shot. Hell if I know why it qualifies as SWORD*DREAM.

Give them enough time and they will destroy themselves.

how much hate tipically from the right wing, a couple of games of this movement can be played with old modules, no matter the ideology behind, i didnt notice the ideology until read here, so yure the inetrested in ideology, but with the hipocrecy of the right prcalm ideology free, yeah right. These thread proves  the hipocccrsy of the right.

Quote from: sebcze on February 10, 2021, 06:38:42 PM
how much hate tipically from the right wing, a couple of games of this movement can be played with old modules, no matter the ideology behind, i didnt notice the ideology until read here, so yure the inetrested in ideology, but with the hipocrecy of the right prcalm ideology free, yeah right. These thread proves  the hipocccrsy of the right.

Troll attempt 1/10. Methinks you won't last long.

Quote from: sebcze on February 10, 2021, 06:38:42 PM
how much hate tipically typically from the right wing, a couple of games of this movement can be played with old modules, no matter the ideology behind, i didnt notice the ideology until read here, so yure you're the inetrested interested in ideology, but with the hipocrecy hypocrisy of the right prcalm proclaim ideology free, yeah right. These thread proves  the hipocccrsy hypocrisy of the right.

This thread proves there's plenty of hate to go around on both sides.

And that you need a spellchecker.  I mean, seriously... :D

The laughable Sword Dream bullshit still a thing?

Quote from: Brigman on February 10, 2021, 07:09:22 PM

And that you need a spellchecker.  I mean, seriously... :D

;D

Quote from: sebcze on February 10, 2021, 06:38:42 PM
how much hate tipically from the right wing, a couple of games of this movement can be played with old modules, no matter the ideology behind, i didnt notice the ideology until read here, so yure the inetrested in ideology, but with the hipocrecy of the right prcalm ideology free, yeah right. These thread proves  the hipocccrsy of the right.

Imagine creating an account on a "problematic" messageboard just to bump a 5 month old thread and make that many spelling and grammatical errors in the process. Are you the kind of person who texts their highschool sweetheart 20 years later at 3AM to tell them how badly you were treated at prom?

EDIT: SORRY, year and a half old thread...keep forgetting it's 2021 already.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 02, 2019, 03:22:00 PM

Quote from: Theory of Games;1090297You should all know White Liberals are more Woke than Black people in regards to Racism (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7828h8vpoUc).

Whites are the new 'standard' for racial activism. Obviously, black & brown people are fkn lames.

So-called minorities need whites to explain how they may or may not be oppressed, even with RPGs.

Baizuos shouldering the new white man's burden

This has been going on since the start. White people speaking for the children, the women, the blacks (all other minorities are an afterthought.) , the handicapped.

And they do it every iteration and pretty much the same stepping stone of progression and oppression.

Currently blacks are yesterdays broken stick and now the monkey has found a new one, handicapped people, as the new stick to play with till its broke. Or someone finally takes it and stabbs them in the eyes with it.

and yeah, oops, thought this was a new thread on an old subject.

Quote from: Spinachcat on February 10, 2021, 07:44:48 PM
The laughable Sword Dream bullshit still a thing?

Short answer is no, it isn't. No products advertise themselves as Sword Dream, and only one even mentions itself as possibly Sword Dream - the free "BadAss Basic RPG".

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/320068/BadAss-Basic-RPG

There was one adventure ("Bone Marshes") pitched as "Sword Dream" at the bottom of the post below, but it doesn't advertise itself as Sword Dream in its own description.

https://www.technicalgrimoire.com/david/2019/06/SWORDDREAM

So I think this can safely be called "not a thing".

They lost again.  Of course, they'll keep trying.

Quote from: RPGPundit on February 11, 2021, 06:38:43 PM
They lost again.  Of course, they'll keep trying.

This just proves what we already knew to be fact: none of these people has a modicum of creativity, talent, or drive to actually PRODUCE anything of value. All they can do is look at an existing product, tell you what's wrong with it and why it's morally reprehensible and DEMAND you "fix" it to meet their laughably stupid criteria.

Also pretty much seals the deal about how much time we should spend on entertaining their delusions.

I don't care if they make a game about oppressed baristas fending off politically-incorrect customers, or whatever.  More power to 'em, if someone wants to buy that.

It's the whole "if you're not part of SWORD REAM, you're a fascist!" thing.  I mean, come on.   ::)

Quote from: RPGPundit on February 11, 2021, 06:38:43 PM
They lost again.  Of course, they'll keep trying.

Well of course, real Sword Dream has never been tried anywhere. It'll be different next time.

Oh, I thought this thread would be bumped because it was still a thing. Okay.  :D

Seriously, it is dead, and here is a serious argument why. After all, there is an itch.io content creation community that's half wokeSR and half storygames (and storygamers were communists from the start, of course), and they are obviously real people releasing real products.

However, most of the stuff they produce are half-baked thought experiments with no appreciable gameplay relevance. There is no powerful design ethic to steer these ideas, and as they drift further from the old-school D&D core in an effort to distance themselves from its "toxic legacy", the designs they champion become ever more muddled. Systems like Troika! are OK, but seem to be too freeform / unstructured without a framework like D&D (or other successful game). What we get are mostly bits and pieces of (retro-)avantgarde artwork, with substance based on combining geekosphere tropes ("What if... lovesick sky pirates and alienated robots?") with a veneer of hipster-flavoured lefty politics ("What if they are also GAY? Or fight for causes that agree with our First World Big City politics?"). There is a serious lack of real substance. Most of the output takes the worst excesses of the one-page dungeon idea, with mini-products giving way to micro-products, and runs it into the round.

That is not to say there is no greatness in that sphere; you get things like the UVG or Mar-Milloir (although many of these are claimed to be part of the scene only retroactively), but that seems to be individual talent, not a fruitful design movement. I honestly expected better when it started, but it disintegrated fairly badly.

Quote from: Brigman on February 11, 2021, 09:14:46 PM
It's the whole "if you're not part of SWORD REAM, you're a fascist!" thing.  I mean, come on.   ::)

Isn't that how cults operate? If one is Woke, then one can only associate with other members of the Woke, since anyone not Woke "is literally a fascist."

I believe what we're seeing with Woke-ism is a secular cult, and others have pointed it out. It has some similarities to communism in being a secular cult, but in other ways it has done a better job of sneaking up on society before many of us realized what is going on with Woke-ism. With communism it took over the role of the state and made promises of utopia by which it could be judged. Woke-ism is working mostly through language and peer pressure. It also lacks a centralized leadership which most cults have.

With the recent anime thread that the rpg.net mods locked due to a lack of snitches, the mods realized they had a community of the un-Woke on their site that the mods feel the need to attack/convert. I believe part of the anger at the users by the mods is that they assumed their users were Woke enough that the bad posters would have been reported on. Realizing they have a bunch of un-Woke users in their midst carrying on a fast moving discussion probably terrifies them a little bit. Of course, being Woke is a moving target, so there will always to heretics to discover at a later date of one kind or another.

Quote from: wmarshal on February 12, 2021, 02:55:12 PM
I believe what we're seeing with Woke-ism is a secular cult, and others have pointed it out. It has some similarities to communism in being a secular cult, but in other ways it has done a better job of sneaking up on society before many of us realized what is going on with Woke-ism. With communism it took over the role of the state and made promises of utopia by which it could be judged. Woke-ism is working mostly through language and peer pressure. It also lacks a centralized leadership which most cults have.

With the recent anime thread that the rpg.net mods locked due to a lack of snitches, the mods realized they had a community of the un-Woke on their site that the mods feel the need to attack/convert. I believe part of the anger at the users by the mods is that they assumed their users were Woke enough that the bad posters would have been reported on. Realizing they have a bunch of us-Woke users in their midst carrying on a fast moving discussion probably terrifies them a little bit. Of course, being Woke is a moving target, so there will always to heretics to discover at a later date of one kind or another.

Indeed. The similarities between the Cult of Woke and the Chinese Cultural Revolution are eery.

The Purple Wardens are concerned about the non-Woke segment of their prison population, but what really keeps them up at night is the fear of not being Woke enough-- that one day they will be deposed by someone of greater virtue. Its why virtue signaling is so important. They must find others to throw to the cancelmob lest it come for them. It's why they have yearly purges in Trouble Tickets, threads with titles like "How can we make the forum better?"

Let a hundred flowers bloom; let a hundred schools of thought contend!

Quote from: Brigman on February 11, 2021, 09:14:46 PM
It's the whole "if you're not part of SWORD REAM, you're a fascist!" thing.  I mean, come on.   ::)

Quote from: wmarshal on February 12, 2021, 02:55:12 PM
I believe what we're seeing with Woke-ism is a secular cult, and others have pointed it out. It has some similarities to communism in being a secular cult, but in other ways it has done a better job of sneaking up on society before many of us realized what is going on with Woke-ism.

Quote from: Aglondir on February 12, 2021, 05:31:04 PM
Indeed. The similarities between the Cult of Woke and the Chinese Cultural Revolution are eery.

I'm impressed by the quick jump from "If you're not SWORD DREAM, you're a fascist!" to "If you're SWORD DREAM, you're a communist!"

Quote from: jhkim on February 12, 2021, 07:26:31 PM

Quote from: Brigman on February 11, 2021, 09:14:46 PM
It's the whole "if you're not part of SWORD REAM, you're a fascist!" thing.  I mean, come on.   ::)

Quote from: wmarshal on February 12, 2021, 02:55:12 PM
I believe what we're seeing with Woke-ism is a secular cult, and others have pointed it out. It has some similarities to communism in being a secular cult, but in other ways it has done a better job of sneaking up on society before many of us realized what is going on with Woke-ism.

.

Quote from: Aglondir on February 12, 2021, 05:31:04 PM
Indeed. The similarities between the Cult of Woke and the Chinese Cultural Revolution are eery.

I'm impressed by the quick jump from "If you're not SWORD DREAM, you're a fascist!" to "If you're SWORD DREAM, you're a communist!"

I'd appreciate it if you'd stop being a post-surrogate for rpg.net.  Thanks.

Quote from: jhkim on February 12, 2021, 07:26:31 PM
I'm impressed by the quick jump from "If you're not SWORD DREAM, you're a fascist!" to "If you're SWORD DREAM, you're a communist!"

I would not call it quick. This has been pointed out quite a bit that the SJWs function very much like a cult or like some versions of communism.

They also mirror the infiltration and co-opting tactics of various fetish groups when they want to convert some interest into their fetish. Storygamers are all about this.

But as I keep pointing out. This is cyclic to about every 20 years and tends to follow a pattern of moving from one rallying point to the next. With ever more stringent calls for censoring. Think of the children. Think of the women. Think of the gays. Think of the minorities. Think of the blacks. Think of the handicapped.

Quote from: jhkim on February 12, 2021, 07:26:31 PM

Quote from: Brigman on February 11, 2021, 09:14:46 PM
It's the whole "if you're not part of SWORD REAM, you're a fascist!" thing.  I mean, come on.   ::)

Quote from: wmarshal on February 12, 2021, 02:55:12 PM
I believe what we're seeing with Woke-ism is a secular cult, and others have pointed it out. It has some similarities to communism in being a secular cult, but in other ways it has done a better job of sneaking up on society before many of us realized what is going on with Woke-ism.

Quote from: Aglondir on February 12, 2021, 05:31:04 PM
Indeed. The similarities between the Cult of Woke and the Chinese Cultural Revolution are eery.

I'm impressed by the quick jump from "If you're not SWORD DREAM, you're a fascist!" to "If you're SWORD DREAM, you're a communist!"

I'm not saying that "If you're SWORD DREAM, you're a communist!" Being a communist requires a belief and commitment to some strand of Marxism. There are Marxist among the Woke, but not all Woke are Marxist, and not all Marxist are Woke. I would say that if one considers oneself a member of SWORD DREAM, then one most likely considers themselves Woke, and the Woke are very much a cult. I can liken them to religious cults as well, but I made a particular point of likening them to communist due to their shared secular nature. It is due to that secular nature of being Woke that their cultish behavior can go by unnoticed by many, since many think of cults as being strictly a religious matter.

Quote from: "wmarshal"I believe what we're seeing with Woke-ism is a secular cult, and others have pointed it out. It has some similarities to communism in being a secular cult, but in other ways it has done a better job of sneaking up on society before many of us realized what is going on with Woke-ism.

The Cult of Woke is a religion because they have a shared coherent conception of what is sacred and what is profane. Belief in the supernatural is not a prerequisite for a religion. The purpose is to make subjective, not objective, sense of reality and provide a map of how to get from the unbearable present to the desired future, i.e. it is not logical in the scientific sense. The Cult is anti-Christian, not anti-religion.

I would argue that the Cult of Woke and Satanism are one and the same thing, since both repudiate and invert cultural norms, which is to say that all references to Satanism or demons in Christianity are wholly applicable. Because the Cult is not predicated on logic, using logic against it accomplishes nothing; its members are not perturbed by failures in their logic, and mocking them for such is useless and shows a failure to understand what one is dealing with. All instructions within Christianity (or any religion that confronts evil) for dealing with evil are effective against it.

Satanism, defined simply as rebellion against the will of God, which is a culture's consensus regarding right and wrong, is a phenomenon that occurs in all cultures. When combined with occult practices (e.g. goddess worship), Satanism can be called witchcraft in the anthropological sense of the word.

QuoteEa [Sumerian Enki] might therefore be reasonably regarded as representative of that part of humanity eternally (and ignorantly) contemptuous of tradition and willing to undermine or destroy the past without understanding its necessity or nature. Those "unconsciously" protected from the outside world by the walls of culture may become irritated by the limitations such walls represent, and incautiously pull them down. This act of destruction, disguised as a blow for freedom, lets the terrible unknown flood back in. The Great Mother [Tiamat] is a terrible force, in the absence of patriarchal protection. The Enuma elish makes this vital point, implicitly... (Jordan Peterson, Maps of Meaning, pp. 116-117)

In The Witch (2015), at the end, after the family falls apart and is destroyed, the daughter goes into the woods and joins a coven of witches and she laughs as she discovers that she can fly (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD8XT9_egAA). This is symbolic of group neurosis (witch hunts, Satanic Panic, pandemic hysteria, et. al.) degenerating into group psychosis, and it is also a very good mythological representation of the Cult of Woke and how it attacks and deludes young women. Such mythological imagery is more efficient and comprehensive in the transmission of ideas, especially those which have not yet been consciously apprehended by the culture.

"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth." -African Proverb

QuoteSystems like Troika! are OK, but seem to be too freeform / unstructured without a framework like D&D (or other successful game).

But then aren't old D&D and OSR praised precisely for freeform attitude compared to over-framed new D&D?

QuoteSatanism, defined simply as rebellion against the will of God, which is a culture's consensus regarding right and wrong, is a phenomenon that occurs in all cultures. When combined with occult practices (e.g. goddess worship), Satanism can be called witchcraft in the anthropological sense of the word.

Dude, stop redefining words to suit your wacky philosophical schemes. If you consider "culture's consensus" as "will of God" then damn Christians would be Satanists for ancient Rome or Aztec Empire. Yeah, that's exactly sensible and useful defining - straight from the bat.

Quote from: Brigman on February 11, 2021, 09:14:46 PM
It's the whole "if you're not part of SWORD REAM, you're a fascist!" thing.  I mean, come on.   ::)

Fascism has apparently produced some great RPGs.
Yay for fascism! ;-)

Quote from: DocJones on February 13, 2021, 03:51:57 PM

Quote from: Brigman on February 11, 2021, 09:14:46 PM
It's the whole "if you're not part of SWORD REAM, you're a fascist!" thing.  I mean, come on.   ::)

Fascism has apparently produced some great RPGs.
Yay for fascism! ;-)

Seems like both sides call the other fascist all the time... 

Leftist OSR? Why thou. There are seriously hardcore problematic subjects in this world people could devote their time if they cared. For example, work camps. They still exist, people still die there. SociaL warriors(kek, that name) dont care enough to make a concentrated push. Or to do anything really. Well, im awaiting the next hot topic that will inevitably arise once polluting the rpgs is no longer hip. The soon the.. better?

Quote from: Brigman on February 13, 2021, 04:09:44 PM
Seems like both sides call the other fascist all the time...

The non SJW side did not till long after. And in all honesty should have started calling them out alot earlier.

Quote from: DocJones on February 13, 2021, 03:51:57 PMFascism has apparently produced some great RPGs.

Well, certainly a lot of Roman Empire LARPing.

Quote from: Warder on February 13, 2021, 05:10:49 PM
Leftist OSR? Why thou. There are seriously hardcore problematic subjects in this world people could devote their time if they cared. For example, work camps. They still exist, people still die there. SociaL warriors(kek, that name) dont care enough to make a concentrated push. Or to do anything really. Well, im awaiting the next hot topic that will inevitably arise once polluting the rpgs is no longer hip. The soon the.. better?

If you get rid of the sweat shops, iPhones and vegan shoes will skyrocket in cost. That would be really annoying for millennials working at Starbucks.

Quote from: Cloyer Bulse on February 13, 2021, 07:57:00 AM

Quote from: "wmarshal"I believe what we're seeing with Woke-ism is a secular cult, and others have pointed it out. It has some similarities to communism in being a secular cult, but in other ways it has done a better job of sneaking up on society before many of us realized what is going on with Woke-ism.

The Cult of Woke is a religion because they have a shared coherent conception of what is sacred and what is profane. Belief in the supernatural is not a prerequisite for a religion. The purpose is to make subjective, not objective, sense of reality and provide a map of how to get from the unbearable present to the desired future, i.e. it is not logical in the scientific sense. The Cult is anti-Christian, not anti-religion.

I would argue that the Cult of Woke and Satanism are one and the same thing, since both repudiate and invert cultural norms, which is to say that all references to Satanism or demons in Christianity are wholly applicable. Because the Cult is not predicated on logic, using logic against it accomplishes nothing; its members are not perturbed by failures in their logic, and mocking them for such is useless and shows a failure to understand what one is dealing with. All instructions within Christianity (or any religion that confronts evil) for dealing with evil are effective against it.

Satanism, defined simply as rebellion against the will of God, which is a culture's consensus regarding right and wrong, is a phenomenon that occurs in all cultures. When combined with occult practices (e.g. goddess worship), Satanism can be called witchcraft in the anthropological sense of the word.

QuoteEa [Sumerian Enki] might therefore be reasonably regarded as representative of that part of humanity eternally (and ignorantly) contemptuous of tradition and willing to undermine or destroy the past without understanding its necessity or nature. Those "unconsciously" protected from the outside world by the walls of culture may become irritated by the limitations such walls represent, and incautiously pull them down. This act of destruction, disguised as a blow for freedom, lets the terrible unknown flood back in. The Great Mother [Tiamat] is a terrible force, in the absence of patriarchal protection. The Enuma elish makes this vital point, implicitly... (Jordan Peterson, Maps of Meaning, pp. 116-117)

In The Witch (2015), at the end, after the family falls apart and is destroyed, the daughter goes into the woods and joins a coven of witches and she laughs as she discovers that she can fly (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD8XT9_egAA). This is symbolic of group neurosis (witch hunts, Satanic Panic, pandemic hysteria, et. al.) degenerating into group psychosis, and it is also a very good mythological representation of the Cult of Woke and how it attacks and deludes young women. Such mythological imagery is more efficient and comprehensive in the transmission of ideas, especially those which have not yet been consciously apprehended by the culture.

"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth." -African Proverb

Perhaps the laziest, mainstream, rebellion for its own sake kind of Satanism... but not LaVeyan Satanism.  If you actually read The Satanic Bible and similar texts on Satanism, it's more like Jordan Peterson + Trump + Gene Simmons.  Common sense conservatism, love of capitalism and money, and preference for deep, primal, symbolic, and esoteric thinking.

VS