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Author Topic: Strength should always matter in RPGs, and Males are stronger on average.  (Read 21334 times)

Razor 007

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« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 02:09:52 PM by Razor 007 »
I need you to roll a perception check.....

S'mon

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Strength should always matter in RPGs, and Males are stronger on average.
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2019, 04:56:35 AM »
I think "should always matter" is pushing it. In certain genres it may not be relevant. You may not even need a STR stat.

Obviously many male nerds (& some female ones) don't appreciate how big the IRL male-female strength difference is. Especially as it seems now to be Politically Correct to deny it. One bad guy on EN World told me that me mentioning it Promoted Rape Culture. The female police officers I know/knew were well aware of the difference, and had a variety of techniques to work around it - with UK police being unarmed, this is a major issue. Their #1 technique being "talking" - they were very, very good at de-escalation.

Butch women who are only around other butch women may not realise it, too. When my ex played Rugby they would go out boozing on the town. One time she came home and told me about a man giving them lip. Her attitude was "He needed to get out of there before we hurt him" - well, those female Rugby players are big butch women, they can take a hit from each other, but if he was anything like an average man I'd be a lot more worried for them than for him.

Koltar

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Strength should always matter in RPGs, and Males are stronger on average.
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2019, 05:24:54 AM »
Oh gawd, not this again....

- Ed C.
The return of 'You can't take the Sky From me!'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUn-eN8mkDw&feature=rec-fresh+div

This is what a really cool FANTASY RPG should be like :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-WnjVUBDbs

Still here, still alive, at least Seven years now...

Razor 007

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Strength should always matter in RPGs, and Males are stronger on average.
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2019, 05:32:26 AM »
Quote from: Koltar;1104077
Oh gawd, not this again....

- Ed C.


Yes.  Again.
I need you to roll a perception check.....

Alexander Kalinowski

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Strength should always matter in RPGs, and Males are stronger on average.
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2019, 06:06:13 AM »
If you want to play a game that simulates reality, like, I don't know, a historical setting, there may be an argument in its favor: realism as a central theme. But it has ZERO place as an automatic mechanic in heroic role-playing games, where you play idealized characters. In heroic role-playing, just as in Hollywood movies, anything goes and women can be as strong or as weak as the player desires, within human limits (and possibly beyond).
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Strength should always matter in RPGs, and Males are stronger on average.
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2019, 06:24:11 AM »
Yes! Finally! Excellent topic.



Swedish female police officers can't do pull ups anymore. The mandatory strength test for women requires them to score a 3 on a scale up to 9. Men have to score 6. Equality, baby! Equality.

Chris24601

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Strength should always matter in RPGs, and Males are stronger on average.
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2019, 07:33:17 AM »
This is why all the example female warriors in the system I'm writing are A) magical mutations or created using biomancy, B) have supernatural ancestry*, C) are arcane cyborgs or D) are spellcasters.

It's almost like it's a fantasy game where players can play whatever they want to be or something. [/sarcasm]

* It's also a setting where people considered humans could have an earth giant as their great grandparent and inherit their great strength without any obvious outward signs of that heritage (they'd be more likely to have brown hair, brown or grey eyes and have a more earthy complexion in general... but even those aren't absolute).

Seriously, if you wanna argue real life, take it to the proper forum. If you wanna argue RPGs then accept that your argument only applies to those trying to emulate the real world and not a fantastic one.

Rhedyn
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Strength should always matter in RPGs, and Males are stronger on average.
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2019, 08:57:50 AM »
The range of Player Character strength can be the same across sexes while different in the setting.

If you feel like that 18 strength (or equivalent) females in a setting need to be 6'6" 300lb brick houses, then that is a lot different than making that situation a lot rarer than 18 str male PCs. You control the adventurer population.

HappyDaze

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Strength should always matter in RPGs, and Males are stronger on average.
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2019, 09:21:34 AM »
Setting aside the sexual differences, I do wish Strength mattered more in games. With D&D 5e being a huge offender in this as I've seen way too many Strength 8, Dexterity 16+ warrior-types having no issues with firing longbows all day long or of moving with ease in half-plate with a shield on their arms. Shadowrun 6e has a similar issue with Strength mattering not at all when swinging swords, clubs, and combat axes (or anything other than unarmed attacks).

TJS

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Strength should always matter in RPGs, and Males are stronger on average.
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2019, 09:39:01 AM »
What's the goal?

Take 5E.
A friggin Goliath is only 5% stronger on average than a halfling.  (The goal here is clearly not realism).
Given that - are the proportional differences between male and female humans even on the scale?

finarvyn

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Strength should always matter in RPGs, and Males are stronger on average.
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2019, 10:18:27 AM »
Quote from: Razor 007;1104075
I had to remove a flat tire, and install a spare tire .....
I'm not sure this is a good example, because around here the mechanics all put tire hexnuts on with some power wrench and I have a lot of really strong friends who can't get the hexnuts off. My daughter got a flat and my father-in-law and I went to help her out. We put the tire wrench on the hexnuts and were actually trying to stand on the wrench to give more torque and couldn't get them to turn.
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RPGPundit

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Strength should always matter in RPGs, and Males are stronger on average.
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2019, 10:22:42 AM »
Pre-emptive warning on this thread: stick to the topic in the context of RPGs.  Larger discussion about gender differences outside of the RPG context will be sanctioned.
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cranebump

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Strength should always matter in RPGs, and Males are stronger on average.
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2019, 11:41:06 AM »
Quote from: Koltar;1104077
Oh gawd, not this again....

- Ed C.


No kidding...:(
"When devils will the blackest sins put on, they do suggest at first with heavenly shows..."

bryce0lynch

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Strength should always matter in RPGs, and Males are stronger on average.
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2019, 11:46:14 AM »
In my D&D world I abstract it out in to a stat called Strength. I don't mess around with idiosyncratic bonuses because that's not fun. I also abstract health in to something called "Hit Points", or HP for short, which represents more than just blood loss/hits. I do the same thing with combat, stretching it out to several second (6 or more!) and abstract several swings, feints, etc in to one "To Hit" roll. Also, I have fantasy races like Dwarves and Elves and have a character class that can cast real magic spells! And another one that can perform miracles granted by REAL actual gods! Not to mention creatures like dragons, medusas (Yes! a race of them!) and the like!
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Chris24601

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Strength should always matter in RPGs, and Males are stronger on average.
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2019, 11:46:29 AM »
Quote from: HappyDaze;1104094
Setting aside the sexual differences, I do wish Strength mattered more in games. With D&D 5e being a huge offender in this.

The system I've been working on ties strength directly to movement in a variety of ways.

First is a fairly stringent encumbrance system where the equivalent of 5e's Strength 8 can only carry 40 lb. without being slowed (light armor, a melee weapon and standard adventurer's kit is about 50 lb. for comparison).

Likewise, size matters a small creature has only half the carrying capacity of a human of the same strength and human has only half the carrying capacity of an "oversized" creature (a category I included between medium and large for PCs just barely able to fit into the space of a medium creature... they get double the carry capacity, but allies can't move freely through their spaces and they suffer some penalties if flanked by blocking terrain).

Next it figures into your climb, jump and swim speeds (you only need to make checks if you're pushing through terrains you can't handle). A "Strength 8" character couldn't climb difficult terrain without a check. A "Strength 14" one could make slow progress up even challenging terrain without a check (and a "Strength 18" one could cross 10' of difficult climbing terrain without a check).

Finally, medium and heavy armor imposes additional penalties without hitting strength thresholds (equivalent to Str 12 for medium and 16 for heavy) and the heavier armors don't cap your Dex either so you're always best off using the heaviest armor you can manage.

The net result is that even agility-focused warriors tend to have a minimum equivalent of Strength 12 (in system they can carry 80 lb. without being slowed, handle difficult climbing/jumping/swimming terrain without checks needed and have no extra penalties for medium armor). The only ones I've seen build with an equivalent of Strength 8 are the wizard equivalent spellcasters who wear no armor at all and aren't proficient with much more than daggers, clubs and staves for fighting.