I have posted a few questions lately because I am trying to piece together a campaign and rules set for the campaign pulling from multiple fantasy settings.

After re-reading B/X and the BE part of BECMI, I think I am going to stick with DCC as a core (which draws heavily from B/X and honestly, though DCC is pretty lethal compared to 3.x and 4e it is not as lethal as B/X for small groups).

But there are some things I want to bring back into the mix from B/X because I am planning on this being small group play.

The first one is monster morale and reactions and an emphasis on retainers.

Monster reactions and retainer morale should work fine using the DCC Personality stat.

My question is, most of the monster right ups for DCC and some later editions of D&D lack a morale score.

Does anyone know if there was a formula for determining monster morale?

example: Natural creature = morale 7, or HD = x morale. I know most undead had morale 12 and fought to the finish but even that does not jive with intelligent undead that do seek self preservation.

I know that goblins and such are going to cut and run pretty quick and I could probably eyeball most of the creatures for morale but I wanted to find out if anyone knew of an actual formula out there?

Thank you again.

I'm pretty sure there was no formula. The process likely went something like this: "How craven is a gnoll? Hmm. Okay, this number seems to express how craven a gnoll is, so I'll use that for the morale stat."

There is!

As I mentioned in the Random Encounter thread, I'm piecing together how mechanics were used in pay from the various scattered sources (to translate them to Earthdawn). Morale is a huge part of that. I recently found and bookmarked a reference, and I think it's one of the keys to the system.

(Thanks Old Geezer, this was a great find. I'm going to have to pick a apart the assumptions in the table below to see how morale was calculated.)

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?744728-OD-amp-D-Top-Ten-OD-amp-D-Myths-That-Need-to-Die/page6

Quote from: Old Geezer;18579101Morale is poorly explained in D&D and makes MUCH more sense if you've read CHAINMAIL.  On this very forum a number of people have said "We didn't understand the references to morale so we ignored them."  The game looks much different if the goblins always fight to the death.

Quote from: Toxoplasma;18583140So, Chainmail clears up those morale rules- any in print, or on-line summaries/explanations of the aforementioned morale system?

Quote from: rstites;18583430The Morale system in B/X D&D (and BESMI?) is basically the Chainmail system.  If you have access to it, you have everything you need for OD&D.

It gets flipped over to be a roll-under on 2d6, whereas Chainmail is roll high on 2d6, but otherwise they're the same.

Quote from: Old Geezer;18583530From CHAINMAIL -- interestingly, this is in the "optional" rules; the main morale system is far more complex.

MORALE
Instability Due to Excess Casualties: When casualties from any and all causes
exceed a certain percentage of a unit's original total strength, morale for that
unit must be checked by rolling two dice. If the loss is brought below the set
percentage by missile fire, the unit must check before the melee portion of the
turn. If the loss is brought about by melee, the unit must check morale after
melees have been completed for that turn. If the unit remains stable, it need not
again check morale until such time as it suffers losses to the stated percentage of
its original strength, but at that time it must be removed from the table for the
remainder of the game.

Code Select Expand

Unit Type                                 Casualty %  Score to Remain
Light, peasants or levies                    25%                8+
Heavy Foot                                   33 1/3%            7+
Elite Heavy Foot, Armored Foot, Mongols      33 1/3%            6+
Medium Horse (not Kts.)                      33 1/3%            7+
Swiss Pikemen                                50%                5+
Heavy Horse, Norman Knights                  50%                6+
Mounted Knights                              50%                4+ Any unit that fails to make the required score to remain in battle is removed from
play immediately unless no route of retreat is open to it. Surrounded units that
fail morale checks are assumed to immediately surrender.
[/I]


Note that this makes mounted knights almost unbreakable.  This is no accident.

EDIT:  Dang it, the table format didn't come through. (I fixed it! -Telarus)

I have just started to examine that table myself (& keep in mind rstite's comment about the target number direction reversing from Chainmail to the oD&Ds). Assigning Miorale scores for new NPCs seems like "What unit-type does it fight like, is it elite/mounted/equivalent-advantage"?-type questions. I'm definitely sure there's going to be alignments with things like Goblins, Hobgoblins, etc, which are usually described as fighting like one of these types. More in further comments.

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;806785example: Natural creature = morale 7, or HD = x morale. I know most undead had morale 12 and fought to the finish but even that does not jive with intelligent undead that do seek self preservation.

Wouldn't that just mean that they'd make a conscious decision to retreat if a battle wasn't going their way, rather than just getting in a tizzy and legging it like their goblin minions...

I re-read the BX rules to make sure. I'll flip the target numbers on the above table (& move the oddly placed pikemen), and it all begins to make sense. I used AnyDice to make sure I had the odds right.

Rolling the target number or above now triggers a Morale Failure.

Chainmail -> B/X(or BECMI) Morale Scale
Unit Type                                 Casualty %  Morale (Failure)
Light, peasants or levies                    25%                6 (7+)
Heavy Foot                                   33 1/3%            7 (8+)
Elite Heavy Foot, Armored Foot, Mongols      33 1/3%            8 (9+)
Swiss Pikemen                                50%                9 (10+)

Medium Horse (not Kts.)                      33 1/3%            7 (8+)
Heavy Horse, Norman Knights                  50%                8 (9+)
Mounted Knights                              50%                10 (11+)
Sample BX monsters:
Bandit - Morale 8 (flees on 9+) = Elite Heavy Foot
Bugbear - Morale 9 = Swiss Pikemen
Dwarf - Morale 8 (10 if leader is alive) = Elite Heavy Foot (Pike+1)
Gnoll - Morale 8 = Elite Heavy Foot
Goblin - Morale 7 = Heavy Foot (-1 in sunlight if you use the 3LBB rule)
Hobgoblin - Morale 8(10) = Elite Heavy Foot (Pike+1) - Yup, this lines up with the description in Chainmail. Hobs fight as Armored Heavy Foot
Kobold - Morale 6( = Light Foot (Elite Heavy Foot)
Normal Human - Morale 6 = Light Foot
NPC Party - Morale 8 = Elite Heavy Foot

The morale failures really cluster to the last half of the curve. Even Goblins (in darkness) check as Heavy Foot.... I wonder why..

Well, that's assuming good equipment and provisions.. so there's probably room left for the negative modifiers. Badly equipped and starving goblins would have an effective Morale of 6(fail 7+), or even 5(6+) using the optional sunlight rule. that's fleeing nearly 60% of the time at that end (72% "in sunlight). Appropriate for scared Goblins.

A Morale 8 flees ~28% of the time, and Morale 10s (another common number in monsters) flee 8.3% of the time.

Very interesting stuff, now I'll have to decide how to apply it....

Here is a link to an AnyDice program that shows you the % of the time any Morale score will fail on a 2d6 roll. The "0" table is the successful Morale Check rate, the "1" table is the failing Morale check rate. Table or Graph view with Transposed Data shows the interesting curves.

http://anydice.com/program/4f39

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;806785I have posted a few questions lately because I am trying to piece together a campaign and rules set for the campaign pulling from multiple fantasy settings.

After re-reading B/X and the BE part of BECMI, I think I am going to stick with DCC as a core (which draws heavily from B/X and honestly, though DCC is pretty lethal compared to 3.x and 4e it is not as lethal as B/X for small groups).

But there are some things I want to bring back into the mix from B/X because I am planning on this being small group play.

The first one is monster morale and reactions and an emphasis on retainers.

Monster reactions and retainer morale should work fine using the DCC Personality stat.

My question is, most of the monster right ups for DCC and some later editions of D&D lack a morale score.

DCC morale rule for monsters and retainers is on page 94. It's a will save vs. DC 10, made at certain points and the Judge can apply modifiers to suit the circumstances.

I used a kind of formula for Arrows of Indra, it was based partly on power and partly on ferocity/timidity. Obviously, things like automata and undead have 12 morale.