Quote from: Simlasa;826518It seems to me that warriors would be obsessed with training, finding new techniques and trainers... new schools of fighting and talented folks to make their weapons and armor... and the money to fund all of that. Lots of potential for adventures focused on that stuff as well.

Sure, but that'd apply to wizards as well -- even presuming, falsely, that no wizard would be at all concerned about improving his or her own fighting prowess.  No profession in my campaign wants more downtime to study than wizards.

Quote from: Ravenswing;826609Sure, but that'd apply to wizards as well -- even presuming, falsely, that no wizard would be at all concerned about improving his or her own fighting prowess.  No profession in my campaign wants more downtime to study than wizards.

Which, to me, is what I'd expect... wizards are the academics and never stop gathering knowledge. Some in-game recognition of that appeals to me a whole lot more that just having them receive spells out of thin air and cast them reliably and without complication... which ends up feeling more like technology and not 'magical' at all.

Quote from: Simlasa;826620Which, to me, is what I'd expect... wizards are the academics and never stop gathering knowledge. Some in-game recognition of that appeals to me a whole lot more that just having them receive spells out of thin air and cast them reliably and without complication... which ends up feeling more like technology and not 'magical' at all.

this is pretty much my thoughts to magic isent easy it takes a lot of work and study it takes weeks to make most magic items and a long time to make new spells to

go into a wizards home there will be crap everywhere

Quote from: Simlasa;826620Which, to me, is what I'd expect... wizards are the academics and never stop gathering knowledge. Some in-game recognition of that appeals to me a whole lot more that just having them receive spells out of thin air and cast them reliably and without complication... which ends up feeling more like technology and not 'magical' at all.

Yes, but why are they (often uniquely) penalized for leveling up?  Fighters can just gain skill, and swing swords reliably and without complication.

im not entirely sure what level up penaltys you are talking about for the most part components are easy to find its just an immersion thing and you can still use your lower level spells

plus fighter equipment is expensive and they need to pay for repairs whenever something gets sundered something that rarely happens to wizards

Quote from: RPGPundit;826418Except that this happens much more rarely, in my experience.

I think that the potential problem is that it means an entire party often ends up having to focus its choices around whatever thing the Magic-User needs to do next.  It makes everyone else his support-staff in gaining power.

Only if your GM sucks. Which goes for every "game balance" issue brought up by anyone, ever, about any game.

I like Earthdawn's answer to this(when it comes to magic items).  Sure 'simple' items have all the answers right there for you, but when you get those non simple items you have to study the item.  That can involve making treks all over the place, finding the name of person who made it, etc.

Quote from: Sommerjon;826753I like Earthdawn's answer to this(when it comes to magic items).  Sure 'simple' items have all the answers right there for you, but when you get those non simple items you have to study the item.  That can involve making treks all over the place, finding the name of person who made it, etc.

I loved that aspect of Earthdawn... our group did have some cool side missions to help characters bond with artifacts... which might contribute to my enthusiasm for that sort of potential with spell components.

Quote from: Matt;826752Only if your GM sucks. Which goes for every "game balance" issue brought up by anyone, ever, about any game.

Well, my answer to avoiding sucking as a GM is to not tailor my entire game around the spellcasters.

Quote from: RPGPundit;826059Do you ever make your players do these things?

Yes, but in my current game this applies only to spells with longer casting times (in the order of minutes at least, but in some cases an hour or more).

Getting a spell cast can be an adventure in itself - not for the sake of powering up the spellcaster, but rather for the benefits of that one-off casting of the spell for the whole group, or for whichever PC needs it (regrow a severed arm?). Often the components will not be reusable.

We have had about 13 or 14 sessions of this campaign so far, and the most talented melee combatant in the party still has only cold-weather clothing for armour, though the next-best melee combatant is wearing a full custom suit of cuir bouilli (which is excellent adventuring armour because you can sneak around in it). Efforts have been made at procuring better armour, but so far it hasn't fitted the party's schedule, and some of them are very strapped for cash.

Quote from: tuypo1;826640im not entirely sure what level up penaltys you are talking about for the most part components are easy to find its just an immersion thing and you can still use your lower level spells

plus fighter equipment is expensive and they need to pay for repairs whenever something gets sundered something that rarely happens to wizards

Are components as easy to find as weapons?

That being said ... err?  In my experience, fighters losing weapons and armor is quite uncommon -- and absolutely as common as wizards losing staves, crystal balls, wands and other paraphernalia.  And fighter gear sure as hell isn't as expensive as wizard gear, especially when you can forage weapons, shields and armor off of every bunch of mooks you slaughter.