This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The message boards have been upgraded. Please log in to your existing account by clicking here. It will ask twice, so that it can properly update your password and login information. If it has trouble recognizing your password, click the 'Forgot your password?' link to reset it with a new password sent to your email address on file.

Author Topic: State of Shadowrun 6e today?  (Read 4106 times)

lordmalachdrim

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • l
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
State of Shadowrun 6e today?
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2020, 03:48:00 pm »
Quote from: KingCheops;1132443
SR4 wasn't my cup of tea because it was too overpowered but it was the last edition that IMO is any good.  That's when they still had good writers and editors before Catalyst chased them all out.

I agree with this for the most part. My issue was with the folding of Riggers and Deckers together, the lose of the difference in feel between Shamans and Mages, and wireless everything (I know that wireless is more realistic with the way tech moved in our world but this isn't our world anymore).

insubordinate polyhedral

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • i
  • Posts: 338
    • View Profile
State of Shadowrun 6e today?
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2020, 03:55:12 pm »
Quote from: lordmalachdrim;1132446
I agree with this for the most part. My issue was with the folding of Riggers and Deckers together, the lose of the difference in feel between Shamans and Mages, and wireless everything (I know that wireless is more realistic with the way tech moved in our world but this isn't our world anymore).

Quote from: KingCheops;1132443
SR4 wasn't my cup of tea because it was too overpowered but it was the last edition that IMO is any good.  That's when they still had good writers and editors before Catalyst chased them all out.

So if I want to selfishly side track the thread for a moment, for Shadowrun pros, the best edition is 4e?

5e was frustrating but I love the game. Hard pass on 6e for me. Would love to play an actual decent edition, if it exists.

KingCheops

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • K
  • Posts: 914
    • View Profile
State of Shadowrun 6e today?
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2020, 04:15:57 pm »
Not for me.  3rd was the best.  But that's where I started so could be nostalgia.  There's definitely valid criticisms of it (can't remember them off the top of my head) but it worked for me and mine.  As lordmalachradrim pointed out 4th watered down a lot of the flavor in favor of universal rules but really broke the game in a lot of ways.  A lot of the guys who got me into SR were super into 2e.

If you're used to the new fixed TN and how that affects gameplay I'd definitely say 4th was the best of that generation.

Shasarak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2064
    • View Profile
State of Shadowrun 6e today?
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2020, 04:47:09 pm »
I guess 2nd edition was my Shadowrun.  Hard to believe that they are up to 6th edition already.
Life is Hard; Play Short

VisionStorm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 930
    • View Profile
State of Shadowrun 6e today?
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2020, 05:11:41 pm »
I only got to play 2e way back in the day. But based on I've read from the PDFs I've got I would probably play 4e if I was gonna play today. It's got lots of options, characters are created with "build points" (BPs) instead of bullshit A, B, C, etc. priority selections, and they've got simplified roll mechanics using a fixed TN of 5 plus difficulty Thresholds (the number "successes" you need to succeed in an unopposed task) that's easier and less funky to use than variable TNs that go above 6, then require you to roll and add extra dice to see you score over TN.

I'd probably still houserule a bunch of things (not sure what right now cuz it's been ages since I read the book), but I'd say 4e is closest to my ideal for SR. I'd also play 4e if I was gonna play SR, rather than use another system, cuz I like a lot stuff about SR's core system, even if I think that it's implementation often leaves a lot to be desired. I probably like it better than Interlock/Cyberpunk 2020, even though that's also a fine system.

lordmalachdrim

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • l
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
State of Shadowrun 6e today?
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2020, 05:14:06 pm »
Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1132448
So if I want to selfishly side track the thread for a moment, for Shadowrun pros, the best edition is 4e?

5e was frustrating but I love the game. Hard pass on 6e for me. Would love to play an actual decent edition, if it exists.

4e and 5e are very similar.

Personally I'm a 2nd/3rd ed fan and those are again very simple to use together.

Shasarak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2064
    • View Profile
State of Shadowrun 6e today?
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2020, 06:13:17 pm »
I do like build points.  Maybe I will check out 4e next time I get a hankering for some Shadowrun.
Life is Hard; Play Short

TheSHEEEP

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 57
    • View Profile
State of Shadowrun 6e today?
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2020, 04:04:09 am »
Quote from: VisionStorm;1132463
I only got to play 2e way back in the day. But based on I've read from the PDFs I've got I would probably play 4e if I was gonna play today. It's got lots of options, characters are created with "build points" (BPs) instead of bullshit A, B, C, etc. priority selections, and they've got simplified roll mechanics using a fixed TN of 5 plus difficulty Thresholds (the number "successes" you need to succeed in an unopposed task) that's easier and less funky to use than variable TNs that go above 6, then require you to roll and add extra dice to see you score over TN.

I'd probably still houserule a bunch of things (not sure what right now cuz it's been ages since I read the book), but I'd say 4e is closest to my ideal for SR. I'd also play 4e if I was gonna play SR, rather than use another system, cuz I like a lot stuff about SR's core system, even if I think that it's implementation often leaves a lot to be desired. I probably like it better than Interlock/Cyberpunk 2020, even though that's also a fine system.
That's partly misinformed. SR5 also allows building characters with build points.
SR5 mostly just addressed the problems of SR4, mostly the incredible power creep via absurdly high dice pools.

Problem is, the way they solved it was incredibly unsatisfying (limiting your number of possible successes) and inconsistent (sometimes your char sheet tells you the limit, sometimes it is fixed by a weapon).
So... yeah.

Honestly, SR5 is more of a SR4.5, really.
But they are both so close it doesn't matter - you can use every supplement of SR4 with SR5 and the other way around without having to change much of anything. Maybe except the matrix stuff, but we never used that cause it was always super weird in SR with you basically "fighting" stuff in a matrix-like environment like you do spirits in the astral world. And then the initiative order when combat gets mixed with people hacking and...ugh... We just all found it too absurd and complicated to make use of it.
We were all either mages or adepts or mundane and there's already so much you can do with that, there's no need for the matrix stuff. When we needed a hacker for story reasons, there would be an NPC and they would "do their thing" ;)

In the end, the question is if you want to houserule SR4 to not allow for totally OP characters, or houserule SR5 to make limits less sucky.
Personally, I'd go for SR5 but allow all SR4 supplements as well. But the other way around also works.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 04:17:04 am by TheSHEEEP »

KingCheops

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • K
  • Posts: 914
    • View Profile
State of Shadowrun 6e today?
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2020, 01:11:39 pm »
Quote from: lordmalachdrim;1132464
4e and 5e are very similar.

Personally I'm a 2nd/3rd ed fan and those are again very simple to use together.

Yeah as I mentioned the guys who introduced me were 2e fans using 3e so the two were VERY blended together.  It took me quite a while to be able to differentiate between them.

4e and 5e are indeed quite similar but personally I didn't like the story or rule changes but that's a personal mileage type thing.  By the time I finally gave up on 4e I was so heavily house-ruling it that it was basically my own 5e.

Iron_Rain

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • I
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
State of Shadowrun 6e today?
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2020, 11:16:12 pm »
I've read the forums on tgdmb.com, apparently 3e or 4e are what you want to play Shadowrun.

"What the shit is so bad about Shadowrun?"

Opaopajr

  • SeƱor Wences
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7364
    • View Profile
State of Shadowrun 6e today?
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2020, 12:34:41 am »
Catalyst is still trying to find their ass? :confused: The struggle is real... and sort of mesmerising. :p So glad I am not a treadmill fan.
Just make your fuckin' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what's interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it's more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Ninneveh

  • Newbie
  • *
  • N
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
State of Shadowrun 6e today?
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2020, 04:41:38 pm »
Having played both, I've always viewed Shadowrun as an inferior Rifts. Rifts, despite its bad presentation and organization, is still a very good system. Shadowrun's rules have only gotten worse with each new edition. And there's nothing in Shadowrun that you can't duplicate in Rifts with a bit of elbow grease. Get together a Rogue Scholar, Dragon Hatchling, Juicer, and a Shifter, and bang, you've got a shadowrunning crew.

KingCheops

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • K
  • Posts: 914
    • View Profile
State of Shadowrun 6e today?
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2020, 05:00:31 pm »
Quote from: Ninneveh;1132689
Having played both, I've always viewed Shadowrun as an inferior Rifts. Rifts, despite its bad presentation and organization, is still a very good system. Shadowrun's rules have only gotten worse with each new edition. And there's nothing in Shadowrun that you can't duplicate in Rifts with a bit of elbow grease. Get together a Rogue Scholar, Dragon Hatchling, Juicer, and a Shifter, and bang, you've got a shadowrunning crew.

SDC level hand to hand combat is definitely far superior in Rifts than in Shadowrun.  Especially if you open up Ninjas & Superspies.  Resource tracking is slightly different on the magic side and would drastically change how mages work but the Rifts version is also very flavorful and actually probably more closely represents the SR novels.

trechriron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1847
    • View Profile
    • https://www.trechriron.com
State of Shadowrun 6e today?
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2020, 07:13:49 pm »
Not to be mean, but every time I sit down to read Rifts, I can't even FIND the system in it. It's like a collection of notes about this really fucking cool idea without the instructions. Don't get me wrong, I fucking LOVE that fucking cool idea. It's so goddamn metal. I haven't read my SWADE Rifts stuff, but I think I'm going to try it out. SWADE makes more sense to me.

I don't think replacing the encyclopedia of SR6 rules with the elder-mystique of the secret system in Rifts is likely going to help. I really wish KS would hire a writer, an editor, and a design lead and step back from his house system and let some fresh faces rework it into something clear, playable, and understandable. I feel like there is a level of unseen awesome hiding in that elder library.

I will maintain that the best bang for your buck is to find a generic system of choice, and hole-out the system with a new one. You have so many options; GURPS, HERO, SWADE, BESM, Entropy, Everywhen, Cypher, Genysys, Mutants & Masterminds, EABA...! You can easily find a system that plays the way you like and use it for Shadowrun. In fact, I can't imagine another edition of SR. It should be a mulit-system setting with a ton of system-free material and system-specific handbooks. Being panned as a terrible system 6 times in a row should probably give someone a clue.
Trentin C Bergeron (trechriron)
Bard, Dreamer & RPG Enthusiast

----------------------------------------------------------------------
All About Me, RPG Stuff...
D.O.N.G. Black-Belt (Thanks tenbones!)
Unfortunately for the perma-offended, reality lacks a trigger warning. - Warboss Squee

VisionStorm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 930
    • View Profile
State of Shadowrun 6e today?
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2020, 09:01:05 pm »
Yeah...

RIFTS is definitely not better than Shadowrun. The setting is about as good, maybe better depending on your tastes, and I would agree it's definitely one of the better ideas (as a setting) to grace RPGs. But the system is a barely incoherent mess with overblown damage and inconsistent power levels between classes and supplements, etc. that's not all bad, but nowhere near the vicinity of innovative to be good.

If I was gonna use a different system to play a setting cuz I didn't like the system attached to it, I would NOT use the Palladium system. If anything, I would play RIFTS with a different system (probably not SW, cuz it doesn't really tickle my fancy).