Quote from: Caesar Slaad;271700Alright, I was funnin/tipping my hat to Rotwang.

You, on the other hand, are not fun.

I get that you really don't think it's worth it. Really.

What a silly comment.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;271715What a silly comment.

Well, the alternative is getting pissy in reaction to your axe-grinding. Which I'm really not in for tonight.

Suffice it to say: it's FATE 3.0 at its core, which gives you lots of options to build characters with, but easy to use in play. But it extends that same principle to starships, organizations, and even empires. Which AFAIAC, is a good thing.

It's a good game. AFAIAC, one of the best to come out this year.

SA is 600 pages of awesome. From what I saw of the PDF, its just astounding; it may be complex, but it also looks like its highly open to compartmentalizing, and removing the things you don't like. It comes with several pre-made settings, and complete rules for creating one's own settings, with lots of random tables.

My only complaint is that I have yet to receive my review copy!!

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;271737It comes with several pre-made settings, and complete rules for creating one's own settings, with lots of random tables.

Okay, I'll look at it again -- but I'll be looking for THIS.

I've had the pdf for months and yes this book has all sorts of cool in it... if you like FATE 3.0 then Starblazers could very well be the definitive Space book for FATE 3.0.

I don't really like aspects, and I gather that that's pretty much an essential part of Fate.

Am I right?

The whole Aspects thing sounds terrible - I like FUDGE but have no interest in FUDGE-FATE.  Would it be easy enough to drop all that narrativist stuff and run it as FUDGE?  Alternatively, is there enough there to use it as a generic sf sourcebook?

I've been thinking about using it in conjunction with StarSIEGE, but SS's layout is so ugly I'm not sure I want to do that.

Quote from: jswa;271957I don't really like aspects, and I gather that that's pretty much an essential part of Fate.

Am I right?

hey guys sorry i've not been around, totally missed this thread till now!

Well someone else was asking about how to introduce some typical DnD players and i suggested they just dont use Aspect initially - it plays just fine without them but i still think they're a great part of the Fate rules. You can just use Fate points to add a +1 anytime you want. I suggest the GM use Aspects for the bad guys so the players get to see them in action and maybe get jealous and want them for themselves!

So why 600 pages? Well I've always hated the fact that so many rpg core books are missing stuff that is so vital - doesn't it bug you when you find out the starship rules are coming out next month, oh and you need the campaign supplement that just came out, don't forget the creature feature book and our special book on playing empires...so I figured why not put the whole lot in one book.

At £30 (£27 if pre-ordered) it's pretty good value for money - most rpg's are around £30 and clock in at about 200-300 pages with endless supplements costing you upwards of £100 for what we've given you in starblazer.

The guys at cubicle 7 were really supportive of my desire to put it all in - though looking at it a slip case of say 10 books would have perhaps been more practical - hmm maybe a deluxe edition!

It's the book i always hoped i'd find in a game store and never did. Of course there's still plenty of supplements to come out - lots of mini freebies and small / cheap supplements focusing on areas of special interest that didn't need to go in the main book - more info on running empires, tons of adventures and campaigns that feedback suggested shouldn't be taking up space in the core book, etc.

I tried to put in lots of short cuts - the whole starship section is prefaced with a paragraph suggesting gm's with players who don't care for starship combat should just run a quick skill check to summarise what happens in the starship fight, or just avoid it all together.

you see it's all just one big tool kit - you can take or leave whatever parts you want. Because it's such a big book we put in a quick one page 'how do i' index for stuff you need to do during gameplay in case you really want the book around but i do stress the book shouldn't be opened during a game-  use the handy reference sheets or make it up - keeping the game going is always more important than checking if a modifier is +1 or +2. The book should be your goto resource for planning games, creating characters and monsters etc.

Now i'm looking at creating a very cheap player's guide that is all the stuff players need to create their characters - so character creation, the intro rules chapter, careers, skills and stunts. Probably a pdf initially.

i do hate big gaming books full of text though and the only reason i let myself off with starblazer is because it's so stuffed full of great art from the comics to inspire people, Fred Hicks layout job has made it very readable and easy on the eye. I want it to be something you want to get lost in absorbing the vibe of Starblazer - the rock n roll bit was about the attitude of the game - it's supposed to be about having a wild night in with your friends rocking around the galaxy not spending the night adding up numbers and checking rules.

would love to know any other comments - negative and positive don't worry it's only a book i'd rather know what people are thinking and improve the next one....nope, no more 600 page books coming, one of my next projects is anything but!

Oh I haven't forgotten your review copy Pundit! you're on the list for as soon as the hard covers ship!

chris

At least now HERO won't be the only rpg that can stop a bullet.

Quote from: ChrisBirch;272013Oh I haven't forgotten your review copy Pundit! you're on the list for as soon as the hard covers ship!

chris

Ahhh... NOW we're cooking with gas.  Well done.

Again, for me to like something based on FUDGE requires that it be done very well; and you guys know I don't run with that "narrativist" bullshit.
So when I say that Starblazers seems very cool, its precisely because of what Chris said above: It is the ULTIMATE space-opera toolkit.  And unlike other games I've seen that use the same system as their starting point, with Starblazers it really seems that you can add or remove any of the parts you like or dislike, and fine-tune the game to be almost exactly what you want, in terms of rules-orientation, in terms of complexity, in terms of everything.

RPGPundit

Well, Chris, I've stated my say above, but I'll refine it a bit:  It's the narrativist-type Tags and Compelling and Spin and etc.  It's just too, too much to absorb and keep track of and worry about and count on when what I want to do is shoot the Mekalor right in its face-plate and snatch the orphans away from its grasp.  I realize that I can jettison that, but then I just have Fudge, and I had Fudge already.

I will say, though, that I made a character last night and faked the other "players'" legends, so that was fun and engaging.  Did you know that Mako Sharpe is the real reason the Space-Bikers have it out for Rombo MacTrans?  I brought the book to work, too, so I could look at it a little more.

That said, don't I get a hardcover, too...?  I purchased at Gencon.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!;272046Well, Chris, I've stated my say above, but I'll refine it a bit:  It's the narrativist-type Tags and Compelling and Spin and etc.  It's just too, too much to absorb and keep track of and worry about and count on when what I want to do is shoot the Mekalor right in its face-plate and snatch the orphans away from its grasp.  I realize that I can jettison that, but then I just have Fudge, and I had Fudge already.

I will say, though, that I made a character last night and faked the other "players'" legends, so that was fun and engaging.  Did you know that Mako Sharpe is the real reason the Space-Bikers have it out for Rombo MacTrans?  I brought the book to work, too, so I could look at it a little more.

That said, don't I get a hardcover, too...?  I purchased at Gencon.

Yes you do - you'll get them the same time as everyone else - should be announcing the date soon

Well what i'd do is just drop aspects, compelling, tags, - that leaves you with skills and fate points which can be spent to get a plus one or maybe a re-roll. I really don't think the system is broken if you lose those parts. Different, not broken, although i think the real flavour is in the aspects. To be honest once you strip it down to just the skills it's a fairly basic rpg system - just like a lot of other games out there. It's why i thought it would appeal to a wide range of people though hopefully - those who like more emphasis on story and those who want just simple mechanics. there's also enough ideas and tools in there to make it a worthwhile purchase for those who don't really want the system.

in my games I've generally avoided using stunts and let people dream up their own if they wanted them, mainly because I've done most of my own playtests with absolute rpg beginners. some gm's and players get more in to compelling and tags, i've seen games with not one single compel or tag and it flowed fine.

if you wanted to go down the hardcover narrative route you could just play with aspects and lose everything else.

i hear there's also a pretty nifty plot generating system in there somewhere ;-)

Quote from: ChrisBirch;272050Well what i'd do is just drop aspects, compelling, tags, - that leaves you with skills and fate points which can be spent to get a plus one or maybe a re-roll.

I'm gonna drop the Fate Points too.   Old School, mate.  

Seriously, the main thing I value in an RPG is you-are-there immersion.  Metagame resources (FPs) and novelistic devices (Aspects) seriously detract from that in play.  They may be great for author-stance story-now narrativist play, but I've learnt the hard way that's not what I want from an RPG.  

Simple, fast playing rules, yes.

The good news is that, looking over the preview, it looks to me like I can indeed scrape off all the narrativist stuff and get a decent playable game, so I'm going to order my copy now.

Edit: except that I see it's *still* not in distribution yet... *sigh*

Quote from: S'mon;272065I'm gonna drop the Fate Points too.   Old School, mate.  

Seriously, the main thing I value in an RPG is you-are-there immersion.  Metagame resources (FPs) and novelistic devices (Aspects) seriously detract from that in play.  They may be great for author-stance story-now narrativist play, but I've learnt the hard way that's not what I want from an RPG.  

Simple, fast playing rules, yes.

The good news is that, looking over the preview, it looks to me like I can indeed scrape off all the narrativist stuff and get a decent playable game, so I'm going to order my copy now.

Edit: except that I see it's *still* not in distribution yet... *sigh*

good plan!  I know people 'play' differently, some people find the narrative style elements help them get into character more easily, for other's they just want a hand full of dice to roll and to balance numbers. There's nothing wrong with either route, i think we're lucky to sit somewhere between the two and please a lot of people.

No it isn't in distribution yet, but if you order now you get the pdf for free plus you get it at £27 - the hard copy is going to be £30 once it's in distribution so you're making a little saving.