Well, I'm wrapping up work on the adventure I posted over on RPGnet.  I've statted up 3 1st level characters, 2 4th level characters, 2 beasts, 2 vehicles, and 4 nonheroics.

Using an excel spreadsheet I picked up on the WotC Mess hall forum (sorry, I don't have a link), and having acquired a passing familiarity with the rule book in the last week, it took me about 5 minutes (tops) each to make these.  Cut and pasting the stat block I already typed up and modifying them takes another couple minutes.

In other words, I can now verify that Saga has totally alleviated the time consuming problem (of standard D20) of writing up NPCs, even for those of higher level.

I have to even say, with the simple skill training system, it's faster than Savage Worlds (the fastest and simplest system, yet crunchy, I can compare it to).  It still takes a bit of juggling with feats to get exactly the abilities you may want...but nothing that gives you a headache.

All I can say is...

Quote from: grubmanI have to even say, with the simple skill training system, it's faster than Savage Worlds

:eek:

Wow, Grubman, that is a big statement, right there.  I only skimmed through the character creation process and it definitely seemed much cleaner and more streamlined than anything I've seen in SW D20 or D&D, but as fast as SW!  How do they handle CR in Saga?  And don't you have to come up with all the standard attributes and effects of level-based feats and talents before you are ready to actually use the NPC in play?

Yes, prep time with D20 has been a huge factor for me not playing it a lot. Saga, OTOH, is very quick whether you are doing PCs or NPCs

I'd say it's definitely faster than d6/WEG Star Wars. I've never played Savage Worlds, so I can't compare.

Quote from: walkerp:eek:

Wow, Grubman, that is a big statement, right there.  I only skimmed through the character creation process and it definitely seemed much cleaner and more streamlined than anything I've seen in SW D20 or D&D, but as fast as SW!  How do they handle CR in Saga?  And don't you have to come up with all the standard attributes and effects of level-based feats and talents before you are ready to actually use the NPC in play?

Instead of trying to feed us bull, like they did in the DMG about how ELs are supposted balance play, they instead say "here's some things to tak into account went figuring ELs and here's some examples". So really there are not a lot of rules for ELs.

As for feats and such:

Beasts don't get the level dependant feats, unless they multiclass with a non-herioc class and have a int of 3+. They don't get any talents.

IIRC, heroic class NPCs only get the class starting feats + one every other. I don't think they get any Talents either.

Quote from: walkerp:eek:

Wow, Grubman, that is a big statement, right there.  I only skimmed through the character creation process and it definitely seemed much cleaner and more streamlined than anything I've seen in SW D20 or D&D, but as fast as SW!  How do they handle CR in Saga?  And don't you have to come up with all the standard attributes and effects of level-based feats and talents before you are ready to actually use the NPC in play?

CR is simply equal to level +/- a little common sense on the part of the GM for special situations or abilities.

Quote from: grubmanI have to even say, with the simple skill training system, it's faster than Savage Worlds (the fastest and simplest system, yet crunchy, I can compare it to).

Hmm. My hearing must not be up to par. For a second there I thought you said it was faster than Savage Worlds, which is...inconceivable!

Quote from: GoOrangeHmm. My hearing must not be up to par. For a second there I thought you said it was faster than Savage Worlds, which is...inconceivable!

Faster may be inflating it a bit, but no joke, I can stat up an NPC in 5 min flat for Saga.

Holy crap!  I'm getting and running this thing!

Quote from: jrientsHoly crap!  I'm getting and running this thing!

If you like SW and would like to run a game in the setting, i recommend that you do.

You can stat a "beast" NPC in 5 min, a basic non-heroic NPC in 5/10 mins.

A mid level Non- heroic or Beast about 10/15 mins.

I can't imagine highlevel NPCs taking much more than 20-30 min.

Quote from: GoOrangeHmm. My hearing must not be up to par. For a second there I thought you said it was faster than Savage Worlds, which is...inconceivable!

OK, I'm sorry, I wrapped that up into one sentence...Stating UP PCs (or pre-gen characters) is faster than Savage Worlds.  

Stating up Nonheroics and Beasts is at least as fast.  For some I'm sure it'll be faster (or at least easier) because the "toolkit" approach of simply picking a level and choosing a few things is much simpler than stating everything from scratch and trying to balance it for the power level of the PCs.

Note:  I'm not dissing Savage Worlds here, I just consider (IMHO) that to be the first game to provide a gamer with crunch while taking the recordkeeping and time restrictions of the poor GM into consideration.  So, when I compare something to it in a favorable way it's a compliment!

Quote from: McrowIf you like SW and would like to run a game in the setting, i recommend that you do.

You can stat a "beast" NPC in 5 min, a basic non-heroic NPC in 5/10 mins.

A mid level Non- heroic or Beast about 10/15 mins.

I can't imagine highlevel NPCs taking much more than 20-30 min.

Especially with the spreadsheet.  Type in the new level and all the skill calculations are done for you.  Other than that it's just a matter of changing Base attack, HPs, and choosing feats and talents.

It's actually fun, and way easier (especially with talents) to develope an NPC based on a concept.

Anything that makes NPC design (or PC design for that matter) faster is a HUGE step in the right direction, in my book.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditAnything that makes NPC design (or PC design for that matter) faster is a HUGE step in the right direction, in my book.

RPGPundit

Especially when you don't lose any detail or customiztion in the deal!

Quote from: grubmanOK, I'm sorry, I wrapped that up into one sentence...Stating UP PCs (or pre-gen characters) is faster than Savage Worlds.  

Stating up Nonheroics and Beasts is at least as fast.  For some I'm sure it'll be faster (or at least easier) because the "toolkit" approach of simply picking a level and choosing a few things is much simpler than stating everything from scratch and trying to balance it for the power level of the PCs.

Note:  I'm not dissing Savage Worlds here, I just consider (IMHO) that to be the first game to provide a gamer with crunch while taking the recordkeeping and time restrictions of the poor GM into consideration.  So, when I compare something to it in a favorable way it's a compliment!

Argh. I just picked up Legend of the Five Rings, and thought I was done with RPG purchases for a few months. Now Grubman comes along and starts in with these convincing arguments as to why I need SW-SE.

Damn you Dave! Guess I'll have to swing over to Amazon.com again.