Personally, I'm just wondering if Star Wars Saga will avoid the "you'll never ever ever be as cool as the main characters" attitude that D6 Star Wars had.  D20 went a long way towards that, by making the main characters actually in the same range as the PCs, so i'd be interested to see if Saga continues that trend.

Quote from: MelinglorSay, I'm curious. I own SW 2nd, but I've never seen 1st. Just what is it about the "Blue Trainwreck" that's supposed to be inferior to the original?

Peace,
-Joel

Sosthenes has listed the reasons why I think people would call 2nd Ed. a 'trainwreck', but like I said, I don't think it was THAT bad. Really, the only thing that I didn't like about it was the addition of ammo limitations, because bleah. Seriously, you ever see Han Solo stop and reload?  No, you don't. I always ignored such tomfoolery and declared that a '1' on the Wild might mean you're out of blaster gas or whatever.  

2nd. also changed vehicle speeds from die codes to numbers, added the concept of "Space Units" for ship movement, introduced scale and...uh...the stuff that Sosthenes mentioned.

I liked the product just fine, but frankly Revised & Expanded takes its cake, eats it, and makes out with its girlfriend.

Quote from: Eric TollePersonally, I'm just wondering if Star Wars Saga will avoid the "you'll never ever ever be as cool as the main characters" attitude that D6 Star Wars had.  D20 went a long way towards that, by making the main characters actually in the same range as the PCs, so i'd be interested to see if Saga continues that trend.

I think D6's problem was reversed.  It wasn't that the PCs couldn't be as cool as the main characters, it was more that the main characters were over-statted.  The NPC write-ups were really over-generous.  Moreover, they should've given out pre-generated movie character sheets so that you could jump right into the game playing Luke, Han, and company.

To not do that was a real mistake, IMO.  And one that D20 did not correct.

Dude, c'mon, imagine the fights over who gets to play Jar-Jar. It could tear a group APART!!!

Quote from: RedFoxMoreover, they should've given out pre-generated movie character sheets so that you could jump right into the game playing Luke, Han, and company.

Dude, those were in the sourcebook from Day 1.

Quote from: AosDude, c'mon, imagine the fights over who gets to play Jar-Jar.

Is that the guy from that Kevin J. Anderson short story?

Did I spell it wrong?
Kickass!
I feel clean for the first time in years.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Dude, those were in the sourcebook from Day 1.

Sourcebook?  All I got's R&E.  It has NPC write-ups, but they come off as examples.

Quote from: AosDid I spell it wrong?
Kickass!
I feel clean for the first time in years.

No, I was pretending I don't know who the little mofo is.

REDFOX: Oh, I see.  Yeah, they weren't in there.  But there was a sourcebook for that edition, too.  So the principals' stats were available; I can see your argment, though, about putting them in the core book.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!No, I was pretending I don't know who the little mofo is.

Darn you.

In my experience, the D6 system gets a _bit_ cumbersome when skills hit the double digits. And the stats for the big heroes and villains easily breached that and it only got worse with time. The first 1E sourcebook was pretty decent (hey, Darth _is_ supposed to be the ultimate badass), but I've got some of the WEG crap surrounding the novels and it got pretty unplayable from there on.

Using the D6 rules for a long campaign seems a bit awkward. It works okay if the players add new skills, but improving their best ones will result in some heavy dice rolling. Full-fledged Jedis are near unplayable.

The D20 versions at least brought balance back to the Force, erm, game table, but had their own problems. Basically, if you want to play a campaign set in the same universe, I'd recommend those rules. If you want to play a game like in the movies, use the D6 system, the earlier, the better.

The Saga edition might change that. Enough room for progress, but a better simulation of Space Opera in general (e.g. the everybody knows everything bit -- come on, you have to be quite a mynock-brain not to know about astrogation and hyperdrive repair, apparently).

I'd also like to add that I kinda dug the KOTOR games, with their changes to the system. Some of that is only playable for a computer, but it kinda simplified and straightend out the feat mess. (And the first part had the biggest "WTF" moment I've experienced in any movie, game or book in the last few years.)

Quote from: MelinglorSay, I'm curious. I own SW 2nd, but I've never seen 1st. Just what is it about the "Blue Trainwreck" that's supposed to be inferior to the original?

Peace,
-Joel

For me, I always just though it was really half-assedly produced compared to the others.

It really had this feel to it like WEG was short on cash, and wanted to dump out a new edition quick as possible.

It's R&E all the way for me baby.

Quote from: C.W.Richeson*nods*

My games used to be more like that 10 years ago, but most folk I've met in the last 3 years or so have wanted to play Jedi.  I think it's due in at least a small part to the prequels heavy focus on Jedi and a general lack of a Solo-type character.

With the Jedi aside my complaints then would be the Wild Die and Critical hits in d6 and d20 respectively.  The Wild Die is a fine idea, but in practice I've seen too many GMs use it as an excuse for extremely silliness 1 in 6 rolls that just destroys the Star Wars feel.  I watched critical hits in d20 result in one hit kills more than once, and it was a little frustrating.

Both of those things are, of course, subject to house rules

Wierd.

The thing I always disliked about both systems, even in spite of my D6 lurve, was the annoying shortage of one hit kills.  D20 even moreso than D6, but even with D6 the lightsaber always seemed rather underdiced.  

Most things in the Star Wars movies die in one hit.  The heroes generally just avoid getting hit.

Quote from: SosthenesUsing the D6 rules for a long campaign seems a bit awkward. It works okay if the players add new skills, but improving their best ones will result in some heavy dice rolling. Full-fledged Jedis are near unplayable.

I can't comment on the playability of powerful Jedi, but I have indeed run a long campaign and can tell you thta, actually, heavy dice rolling wasn't an issue for us.  

My players would do one of two things with their Character Points: they'd either use them to pump up one or two skills (in which case they became either, say, totally rad pilots or capable of multiple, meaningful actions), or they'd hoard them and spend them to boost in-game rolls.

In my experience, the best use of a big die code is to perfom multiple actions. Shoot three times in a round, pull several maneuvers in a ship, fast-talk the customs guy while simultaneously concealing the very datacard he's accusing you of holding...that sort of thing. You can rock more often that way, so to speak; someone with a 9D blaster skill can, in one round, pull off 4 shots at 5D each, meaning they're more likely to hit* - or do two shots at 7D and run and jump or what-have-you.  

I couldn't tell you why it was such a non-issue with our group, but...it wasn't.

:shrug:


*And in the latest D6 rolls, they'll likely do more damage, as to-hit overages now addto damage rolls.

Quote from: SosthenesIn my experience, the D6 system gets a _bit_ cumbersome when skills hit the double digits. And the stats for the big heroes and villains easily breached that and it only got worse with time. The first 1E sourcebook was pretty decent (hey, Darth _is_ supposed to be the ultimate badass), but I've got some of the WEG crap surrounding the novels and it got pretty unplayable from there on.

Using the D6 rules for a long campaign seems a bit awkward. It works okay if the players add new skills, but improving their best ones will result in some heavy dice rolling. Full-fledged Jedis are near unplayable.

The D20 versions at least brought balance back to the Force, erm, game table, but had their own problems. Basically, if you want to play a campaign set in the same universe, I'd recommend those rules. If you want to play a game like in the movies, use the D6 system, the earlier, the better.

The Saga edition might change that. Enough room for progress, but a better simulation of Space Opera in general (e.g. the everybody knows everything bit -- come on, you have to be quite a mynock-brain not to know about astrogation and hyperdrive repair, apparently).

I'd also like to add that I kinda dug the KOTOR games, with their changes to the system. Some of that is only playable for a computer, but it kinda simplified and straightend out the feat mess. (And the first part had the biggest "WTF" moment I've experienced in any movie, game or book in the last few years.)

So is the Saga edition supposed to be lend itself to a more general type of space opera as well as the SW universe?