Quoteand in this case I would say that the ship construction and combat system in Gurps traveller is a good one, especially if you have the GT supplement "starships" to add in even more goodies and rules.

I really dig GURPS Traveller, but would never, ever use the Construction rules. Why? Imperial Measurements.

Quote from: SettembriniI really dig GURPS Traveller, but would never, ever use the Construction rules. Why? Imperial Measurements.

Hey, fine. If you're that intolerant then don't use the system.

QuoteHey, fine. If you're that intolerant then don't use the system.

Well I have all other Traveller Products and construction systems. They are all in metric units. As a lot of calculation is needed, I see no point in using imperial measures.

What makes GURPS construction rules superiour to Fire Fusion and Steel? Sell me on GURPS construction rules, I'm totally open.

Quote from: SettembriniWell I have all other Traveller Products and construction systems. They are all in metric units. As a lot of calculation is needed, I see no point in using imperial measures.

What makes GURPS construction rules superiour to Fire Fusion and Steel? Sell me on GURPS construction rules, I'm totally open.

Well, not having FF&S I can't compare the two fairly, but I have heard a lot about FF&S being a legendary game product.

As to gurps, I can say that when you get starships there are a lot of systems you can put on ships, and the construction system is modular and therefore quite easy to do quickly and efficiently. The system does capture the flavor of traveller with respect to the original system.

It even uses 20 minute turns, and the starships book allows you to increase RoF on weapons for a bonus if you buy enough reactor space to power the weapon for multiple shots.

The bummer is that some of the rules and systems require Gurps vehicles, but even so it's an excellent system and there's really no converting involved as everything is modular and you buy systems as modules.

QuoteThe bummer is that some of the rules and systems require Gurps vehicles, but even so it's an excellent system and there's really no converting involved as everything is modular and you buy systems as modules.

Well, I like my Megatraveller construction when I feel like spending not much time (with software). I have once designed something with GURPS vehicles, and I can tell you it's not fun, if you aren't born into imperial measurements. Where is the modular approach of GURPS better than the Modular approach of the LBBs?

Quote from: SettembriniWell, I like my Megatraveller construction when I feel like spending not much time (with software). I have once designed something with GURPS vehicles, and I can tell you it's not fun, if you aren't born into imperial measurements. Where is the modular approach of GURPS better than the Modular approach of the LBBs?

Again, I don't know as I was never in to LBB traveller, tho I had a chance to be and passed it up to my eternal regret.

All I can say is that the modular construction system in gurps traveller uses 'spaces' that represent 1 dton of liquid hydrogen, and that's the only measurement the ship building process uses till you get to the end and calculate mass and dimensions.

As to SJG using the American system of measurements, I actually repsect them for that even if I dislike jackson himself intensely. :fu2:

Some people just do not want the metric system forced down their throats on a bayonet like it was in most european countries that actually criminalized non metric measurments. Americans just wont tolerate that.

QuoteAll I can say is that the modular construction system in gurps traveller uses 'spaces' that represent 1 dton of liquid hydrogen, and that's the only measurement the ship building process uses till you get to the end and calculate mass and dimensions.

Which is like the LBBs.

QuoteAs to SJG using the American system of measurements, I actually repsect them for that even if I dislike jackson himself intensely. :fu2:

I can see how using imperial measurements reassures the US-User. Indeed it makes sense, as it is what people have grown up with.

QuoteSome people just do not want the metric system forced down their throats on a bayonet like it was in most european countries that actually criminalized non metric measurments. Americans just wont tolerate that.

Your nationalistic statement here is really funny. We could go off topic into next year with the musings about what "Americans"  will "tolerate", especially with regards to forcing other people with bayonets. But that would lead to nothing. Let's just say, that for measuring volumes, the metric system is in every way superiour. How many gallons are in a cubic foot? Or hogsheads for that matter? Fluid ounces anyone?
How many ounces does a fluid ounce of water weigh?

Enough of that, back to Space Combat!

Quote from: SettembriniI can see how using imperial measurements reassures the US-User. Indeed it makes sense, as it is what people have grown up with.

Be that as it may, in the case of Traveller, I consider it unfortunate. I think it's more a matter that it's what GURPS Players are familiar with.

For me as an American, the only real thing that messes with my head is when I am dealing with things that day-to-day I see measured in Imperial units... like my height (cm vs. ft/inch notation) and weight (kg vs. lbs) and the speed of my car. When you are talking about how many tons a starship weight, it doesn't matter a whit whether they are metric or imperial tons. Just how many of said unit ship X has vs. ship Y.

A meter is close enough to a yard that it's fairly easy to grok either way. Long distance or high speed... familiarity takes on less relevance, and its more about the numbers. But the conversions are easier between contained unit. I always have difficulty, for example, remember feet in a mile. Meters in a km, OTOH, is simpler to recall for my decimal-thinking brain. And Traveller has always used meters.

QuoteI always have difficulty, for example, remember feet in a mile. Meters in a km, OTOH, is simpler to recall for my decimal-thinking brain. And Traveller has always used meters.

When you have to calculate between units, metric system is teh R0xx0rz!

BTW, if anybody can answer my fluid ounces to dry ounces of water question, I really want to know.

In the metric system:

1kg water = 1l  water
1g water = 1ml water

what`s it with the fluid ounces? where do they come from?

Quote from: SettembriniWhen you have to calculate between units, metric system is teh R0xx0rz!

BTW, if anybody can answer my fluid ounces to dry ounces of water question, I really want to know.

In the metric system:

1kg water = 1l  water
1g water = 1ml water

what`s it with the fluid ounces? where do they come from?

I think fluid ounces if a measurement of liquid volume, not weight. Measuring cups use it and they only measure volume, not weight.

As for the metric system, if it's feces doesn't stink why do countries like england have to force it down people's throats on a bayonet by making all other systems illegal? I've heard that store owners in elgnald who refused to switch to metrics for whatever reason were hunted down and fined until they bowed, or were driven out of business.

Sounds sort of like "fascism" to me.

if the metric system is so great then why must it be rammed down people's throats under threat of force? Why not just put it out there and let people choose it or the original way?

Is it because they might not choose the metric system and the people who support it can't stand to be disagreed with? Like I say, it sounds like fascism to me.

Quoteif the metric system is so great then why must it be rammed down people's throats under threat of force?

Because "people" resent any change. The british also resented their currency change. Now it's decimal and nobody wants it the old way anymore.

Be careful. Fascism is a lot harsher than implementing a unified system of measurements. Actually it is called democracy: Great Britain has signed international contracts because it is an EU Member. The government who signed the treaty was elected. We call obedience to that democracy, you know?
Maybe your just hyperboling, so be it.
But you have no clear understanding of the metric system, obviously, so we should drop that discussion. If you really care, I'll explain it to you in a different thread. It serves no purpose here anymore. In that thread you can also explain to me the merits of having different units called ounces for liquids and weights, and where those units come from. Maybe you can convince me of the use of the "hogshead" as a superiour way of expressing ship tonnage. I'm all ears.

DISCLAIMER: I know and do not condone making fun of imperial measures in day to day use. Quart or liter, yard or meter, kilometer or mile doesn't matter in day to day life. But when calculating in any scientific way the imperial measurement is totally bonkers and downright hindrance. I cannot see  any redeeming fact there.

Quote from: SettembriniBecause "people" resent any change. The british also resented their currency change. Now it's decimal and nobody wants it the old way anymore.

Be careful. Fascism is a lot harsher than implementing a unified system of measurements. Actually it is called democracy: Great Britain has signed international contracts because it is an EU Member. The government who signed the treaty was elected. We call obedience to that democracy, you know?
Maybe your just hyperboling, so be it.
But you have no clear understanding of the metric system, obviously, so we should drop that discussion. If you really care, I'll explain it to you in a different thread. It serves no purpose here anymore. In that thread you can also explain to me the merits of having different units called ounces for liquids and weights, and where those units come from. Maybe you can convince me of the use of the "hogshead" as a superiour way of expressing ship tonnage. I'm all ears.

DISCLAIMER: I know and do not condone making fun of imperial measures in day to day use. Quart or liter, yard or meter, kilometer or mile doesn't matter in day to day life. But when calculating in any scientific way the imperial measurement is totally bonkers and downright hindrance. I cannot see  any redeeming fact there.

Just remember one thing: The atom bomb was invented and built in America using american measurements.

Quote from: Dominus NoxI dislike jackson himself intensely. :fu2:

Why so? You've mentioned this twice in this thread, so I figured I'd ask.

I'll also chime in with a vote for Full Thrust as a good space combat system. As has been said, no 3D, but it seems the game is infinitely customizable.

By the way, if anyone who likes Full Thrust and Babylon 5 would like an "official" B5/Full Thrust game, try to locate the Earthforce Sourcebook for Chameleon Eclectic's defunct Babylon 5 RPG (which is not as good as the later d20/OGL version by Mongoose). The EFS has a space combat system based on Full Thrust and written by Jon Tuffley himself.

Here are some starship combat rules for Battlestar Galactica that use the d20 Future starship combat/d20 Modern vehicle combat rules as the basis, and which take 3D into account:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=513294

Quote from: ColonelHardissonBy the way, if anyone who likes Full Thrust and Babylon 5 would like an "official" B5/Full Thrust game, try to locate the Earthforce Sourcebook for Chameleon Eclectic's defunct Babylon 5 RPG (which is not as good as the later d20/OGL version by Mongoose). The EFS has a space combat system based on Full Thrust and written by Jon Tuffley himself.

Yeah, the Chameleon Eclectic B5 RPG was a real dog (particularly the art), but the Full Thrust-based space combat game was its one redeeming feature.  Of course, before it was released I had spent months making my own B5 conversion for Full Thrust...and their's was much better.  DOH!


TGA