Quote from: Edena_of_NeithI know of only one.  She played a character called Dontella.  Dontella, high priestess of Paladine, was pretty close to being an exalted character.  Really close.  In this case, close enough.

  But nobody else.  Never.  Not in 25 years of gaming.

Thats my point exactly.  Think of how pissed off a party would be with a character trying to reach an exalted status.  At least a paladin is willing to go out and slaughter demons without asking questions.  The character on the exalted path would need to try and deal/talk with them first, offer them mercy and forgiveness.

Actually, I am considering a certain Real World example.
  However, because this is a Gaming Messageboard, I cannot bring this example up here.
  At least, not without permission of the Moderators.

Quote from: Edena_of_NeithActually, I am considering a certain Real World example.
  However, because this is a Gaming Messageboard, I cannot bring this example up here.
  At least, not without permission of the Moderators.

As long as your using it as an example I see no problem with it.

Your talking extremes and any examples from the real world that you use to demonstrate that would have to be extremes themselves.

Do remember that this is a gaming board and try not to start any flame wars.  And if nothing else I can delete/edit posts or even lock the thread.

Well, it was some B movie in which a starlet played a succubus.
  She went to this city politician, and showed him the afterlife awaiting him - hell, in this case - and he went and became a priest as a result.
  You may have seen the film:  this B film involved a doctor (he was the good guy) and the succubus had demonic parents who wanted to kill her, and she ripped out the spines of people, and things like that.
 
  The film aside, the logic prevails:  the politician saw the consequences of his actions, and real proof of good and evil and the whole kit and kobotte, and look what happens:  he says he believes he deserves a good jail sentence, and he's off to become a priest for the rest of his years, in seclusion.

  So now, we have a demonic figure - a succubus - sort of playing the exalted role, as it were.
  An exalted character can do the same thing, only the exalted character can show the villain the Seven Heavens, or the Fields of Elysium, or the Forests of Arvandor, or whatever.

  Now, perhaps, the minotaur king won't care:  he worships Sargonnas, God of the Minotaurs of Krynn, and he believes in everything Sargonnas.
  Enter the rules from chapter 2, and those direct views of the Upper Planes that an exalted character can grant with exalted spells (along with the modifications to the saving throw entailed) and you have ... a mess.

  Frankly, I can only speculate on the Exalted Plague, or the Good Plague, or the Sunbane Plague (hehe ) or whatever you want to call it.
  You introduce the concept of TALKING villains into becoming good guys, and you allow that the deities of Good go along with this (much less, talking people into becoming exalted) and anything could happen.
  I don't know WHAT would happen in an actual game.  It would be interesting, to find out.
  But I'm pretty sure it would be very messy, if nothing else.  Very, very, VERY messy!

But since the talking to villains is a variant rule I would say ONLY exalted characters have that option.  And reversely really evil characters have the exact same option with good characters, of converting them to evil.  Of course in their case spells, mind control and brainwashing would not just be okay it would actually be encouraged.

I can't find the spell your talking about by the way.

I think it is pretty easy to rule so that your example would be next to impossible to accomplish.

But since the talking to villains is a variant rule I would say ONLY exalted characters have that option.  And reversely really evil characters have the exact same option with good characters, of converting them to evil.  Of course in their case spells, mind control and brainwashing would not just be okay it would actually be encouraged.

I can't find the spell your talking about by the way.

I think it is pretty easy to rule so that your example would be next to impossible to accomplish.

I am merely fielding some thoughts and opinions.

  And yes, I am dealing with extremes.  But the Book of Exalted Deeds is a gaming supplement that deals with some extreme and some extraordinary concepts and subjects, so naturally discussing it involves discussing extremes.
  It is crucial that this particular gaming supplement be dealt with in a careful manner.  Otherwise, a game might just actually head into things like Exalted Plagues and nasty things of that sort!  

  Sincerely
  Edena_of_Neith

Found the spell, only gives the target a -1 penalty on their saving throw.

Lets just say that you as a DM allow exalted character to convert an evil character to an exalted character with just the mechanics described.  They have to fail seven Will saves against the redemption in a row and then do that another 2 times.  If any at anytime during during those seven saves the target makes a save you ahve to start over again at the beginning of that seven.

I think just going with the mechanic to make an exalted character would be a very bad idea.  And woudl make becominge exalted far to easy.

You might have detected some humor in my posts.
  I feel that, with a supplement like the Book of Exalted Deeds, humor is needed.  It makes the subject matter much easier and much, much funner to deal with.

  I doubt we'll be seeing Exalted Plagues anytime soon (if we did, why haven't they occurred in the past?)
  But there's always that possibility!

  And thus, the Stawart Forces of Evil must be on guard!  They must protect the world from this menace!  Never must this Sunbane-like threat be allowed to sweep across the defenseless, helpless face of worlds like Krynn, Oerth, and Toril!
  Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!  

Alright, as far as I know, James Wyatt was the guy who wrote the rules on redeeming villains. There is the spell that does the same thing, which I did design (though they completely rewrote my version before the book was released :mad:). Anyway the bottom line is this: an exalted plague is pretty much impossible. Exalted characters are rare to begin with. Taking the time with villains to try and redeem them is even more rare. Succeeding at the number of saves needed to convert a character is even more rare still. Even if your exalted character was fairly successful at converting high ranking villains (which in itself is unlikely since they usually have some pretty powerful innate magic to get them out of serious jams), the chances of them spreading this on to others afterwards is pretty low.

Add to this the fact that the D&D rules simply do not encompass what happens "off camera." There are no systems in place to handle how an NPC deals with another NPC, and so on. The rules dictate how you are able to interact with those you personally encounter. Anything beyond that is strictly in the realm of DM fiat/rule zero, as it should be.

My sympathies, Bullitt.  It stinks when you put your heart into something, and then they just arbitrarily redesign it.  That really stinks, no?
  I've heard a lot of complaints of this sort and similar sort from the game designers and writers at TSR and at WOTC.
  I think that sometimes, you and your fellows get a raw deal.  I am sorry.

  Yours Truly
  Edena_of_Neith