I hear savage worlds is good for pulpy games. Its both level based and skill based.

Troll Lord Games has an established pulp D&D/d20/OSR type game:
https://www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/#!/Amazing-Adventures/c/11639154

Searching DriveThru also turns up BX Gangbusters https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/292055/Gangbusters-B-X-version?src=hottest_filtered&filters=45582_0_300_0_0

Quote from: S'mon on April 29, 2021, 02:28:40 AM
Troll Lord Games has an established pulp D&D/d20/OSR type game:
https://www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/#!/Amazing-Adventures/c/11639154

Searching DriveThru also turns up BX Gangbusters https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/292055/Gangbusters-B-X-version?src=hottest_filtered&filters=45582_0_300_0_0

Nice. Here's two reviews of Amazing Adventures. It seems that it has a meta-currency of "Fate Points". It also has armor class that comes from dressing stylishly rather than realistic armor - which is a different sort of meta-mechanic. On the other hand, it does have characters advance from level 1, arguing that they have to work their way up to being starting pulp heroes.

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/15/15953.phtml

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/15/15756.phtml

And here's a few reviews of Gangbusters B/X Version. It doesn't have Fate Points, but it has a similar rule about armor coming from stylish clothes.

https://rollingboxcars.com/2020/02/05/gangbusters-b-x-edition-basic-rule-book/

http://theotherside.timsbrannan.com/2019/11/review-bx-gangbusters.html

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14385.phtml

Quote from: jhkim on April 29, 2021, 02:43:23 PM

Quote from: S'mon on April 29, 2021, 02:28:40 AM
Troll Lord Games has an established pulp D&D/d20/OSR type game:
https://www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/#!/Amazing-Adventures/c/11639154

Searching DriveThru also turns up BX Gangbusters https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/292055/Gangbusters-B-X-version?src=hottest_filtered&filters=45582_0_300_0_0

Nice. Here's two reviews of Amazing Adventures. It seems that it has a meta-currency of "Fate Points". It also has armor class that comes from dressing stylishly rather than realistic armor - which is a different sort of meta-mechanic. On the other hand, it does have characters advance from level 1, arguing that they have to work their way up to being starting pulp heroes.

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/15/15953.phtml

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/15/15756.phtml

And here's a few reviews of Gangbusters B/X Version. It doesn't have Fate Points, but it has a similar rule about armor coming from stylish clothes.

https://rollingboxcars.com/2020/02/05/gangbusters-b-x-edition-basic-rule-book/

http://theotherside.timsbrannan.com/2019/11/review-bx-gangbusters.html

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14385.phtml

Wow, looks like I'm not the only one that thinks the fun is in the journey.

Stylish clothes as armor... Not sure how I feel about that.

Fate/Luck/etc points... I still fecking hate metacurrency. But given the genre it might be an unavoidable evil.

Eldritch Tales looks like a Pulp-ish Cthulhu investigation game, it also seems like it has a neat Feat mechanic:

https://ynasmidgard.blogspot.com/2019/03/review-eldritch-tales.html

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/250356/Eldritch-Tales-Lovecraftian-White-Box-RolePlaying?affiliate_id=64760

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 29, 2021, 04:04:49 PM

Quote from: jhkim on April 29, 2021, 02:43:23 PM

Quote from: S'mon on April 29, 2021, 02:28:40 AM
Troll Lord Games has an established pulp D&D/d20/OSR type game:
https://www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/#!/Amazing-Adventures/c/11639154

Searching DriveThru also turns up BX Gangbusters https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/292055/Gangbusters-B-X-version?src=hottest_filtered&filters=45582_0_300_0_0

Nice. Here's two reviews of Amazing Adventures. It seems that it has a meta-currency of "Fate Points". It also has armor class that comes from dressing stylishly rather than realistic armor - which is a different sort of meta-mechanic. On the other hand, it does have characters advance from level 1, arguing that they have to work their way up to being starting pulp heroes.

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/15/15953.phtml

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/15/15756.phtml

And here's a few reviews of Gangbusters B/X Version. It doesn't have Fate Points, but it has a similar rule about armor coming from stylish clothes.

https://rollingboxcars.com/2020/02/05/gangbusters-b-x-edition-basic-rule-book/

http://theotherside.timsbrannan.com/2019/11/review-bx-gangbusters.html

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14385.phtml

Wow, looks like I'm not the only one that thinks the fun is in the journey.

Stylish clothes as armor... Not sure how I feel about that.

Fate/Luck/etc points... I still fecking hate metacurrency. But given the genre it might be an unavoidable evil.

Eldritch Tales looks like a Pulp-ish Cthulhu investigation game, it also seems like it has a neat Feat mechanic:

https://ynasmidgard.blogspot.com/2019/03/review-eldritch-tales.html

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/250356/Eldritch-Tales-Lovecraftian-White-Box-RolePlaying?affiliate_id=64760

About the "necessary evil". For me, one of the keys of what makes a game feel "pulp" is less time in tactical planning, and more jumping straight into the action. And yeah, this is in part directly opposed to lethality. If players know their characters will die if they make a wrong move, they're going to tend more to carefully plan. Meta-currency is a means to that end -- but it's not the only one. I'm not much into OSR, but if I was creating a pulp game in general, I'd consider some things like:

(1) Getting taken down doesn't mean a character is immediately dying. The default of being out of a fight should be "knocked unconscious" rather than dead.

(2) Avoid items/spells/powers that require careful setup. This includes the obvious (spell slots that need to be planned in advance) and the indirect (tactical edge that requires very specific conditions). For example, if an exactly-placed single-shot fireball is devastating, but a poorly-placed one disastrous, that favors carefully planning positioning.

(3) Prefer items/spells/powers that reward spontaneity. Have more powers that allow easy retreat, or otherwise cover for mistakes.

(4) It might be better to have rest important only after the end of an adventure, instead of the having several rest-and-recover sessions during an adventure. Resting in a bolt-hole to heal/recover is often a practice in D&D, but it doesn't fit as well the pulp goal of pushing on and fast-paced action.

Quote from: jhkim on April 29, 2021, 04:57:03 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 29, 2021, 04:04:49 PM

Quote from: jhkim on April 29, 2021, 02:43:23 PM

Quote from: S'mon on April 29, 2021, 02:28:40 AM
Troll Lord Games has an established pulp D&D/d20/OSR type game:
https://www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/#!/Amazing-Adventures/c/11639154

Searching DriveThru also turns up BX Gangbusters https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/292055/Gangbusters-B-X-version?src=hottest_filtered&filters=45582_0_300_0_0

Nice. Here's two reviews of Amazing Adventures. It seems that it has a meta-currency of "Fate Points". It also has armor class that comes from dressing stylishly rather than realistic armor - which is a different sort of meta-mechanic. On the other hand, it does have characters advance from level 1, arguing that they have to work their way up to being starting pulp heroes.

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/15/15953.phtml

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/15/15756.phtml

And here's a few reviews of Gangbusters B/X Version. It doesn't have Fate Points, but it has a similar rule about armor coming from stylish clothes.

https://rollingboxcars.com/2020/02/05/gangbusters-b-x-edition-basic-rule-book/

http://theotherside.timsbrannan.com/2019/11/review-bx-gangbusters.html

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14385.phtml

Wow, looks like I'm not the only one that thinks the fun is in the journey.

Stylish clothes as armor... Not sure how I feel about that.

Fate/Luck/etc points... I still fecking hate metacurrency. But given the genre it might be an unavoidable evil.

Eldritch Tales looks like a Pulp-ish Cthulhu investigation game, it also seems like it has a neat Feat mechanic:

https://ynasmidgard.blogspot.com/2019/03/review-eldritch-tales.html

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/250356/Eldritch-Tales-Lovecraftian-White-Box-RolePlaying?affiliate_id=64760

Quote from: jhkim on April 29, 2021, 04:57:03 PM
About the "necessary evil". For me, one of the keys of what makes a game feel "pulp" is less time in tactical planning, and more jumping straight into the action. And yeah, this is in part directly opposed to lethality. If players know their characters will die if they make a wrong move, they're going to tend more to carefully plan. Meta-currency is a means to that end -- but it's not the only one. I'm not much into OSR, but if I was creating a pulp game in general, I'd consider some things like:

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you haven't read my posts.

Quote from: jhkim on April 29, 2021, 04:57:03 PM
(1) Getting taken down doesn't mean a character is immediately dying. The default of being out of a fight should be "knocked unconscious" rather than dead.

Right, like I already said, the threat of death needs to be there IMHO but... I do agree that it needs to be less, and that the best way to this is to have 0HP not being dead but unconscious and some other mechanic for the character to die.

Quote from: jhkim on April 29, 2021, 04:57:03 PM
(2) Avoid items/spells/powers that require careful setup. This includes the obvious (spell slots that need to be planned in advance) and the indirect (tactical edge that requires very specific conditions). For example, if an exactly-placed single-shot fireball is devastating, but a poorly-placed one disastrous, that favors carefully planning positioning.

Like I already said I'm not using vancian magic, but spontaneous casting, the caster knows the spells he knows and can cast "at will", maybe power points or other mechanic, not sure which one yet.

Quote from: jhkim on April 29, 2021, 04:57:03 PM
(3) Prefer items/spells/powers that reward spontaneity. Have more powers that allow easy retreat, or otherwise cover for mistakes.

Well, lets just say that not all the usual spells from the OSR will be there, still working on which ones will.

Quote from: jhkim on April 29, 2021, 04:57:03 PM
(4) It might be better to have rest important only after the end of an adventure, instead of the having several rest-and-recover sessions during an adventure. Resting in a bolt-hole to heal/recover is often a practice in D&D, but it doesn't fit as well the pulp goal of pushing on and fast-paced action.

This is something I hadn't thought about, and it does make sense, will need to be play tested of course but it sounds good.

In my book, pulp characters are going to be quite competent and unable to die through random chance or poor choices on the players part.  If they actually do something like jump in an active volcano I'm likely going to say something like "that is fatal, if you just don't want to play this one we can work something else out."

What I try to punch them in is the failures, not the mortalities.  Villains that get away, McGuffins that are lost, doomsday weapons already fired.

But that doesn't mean there isn't room for more physical dangers.  Being taken out if a fight could lead to injuries that will complicate things later, or simply not being able to reach the goal of the conflict.  What sounds like more fun when you reach zero hit points, rolling up a new character or getting captured and trying to undo the villains plans after an escape from your cells?

Either way, the villains agenda gets to advance while the players goals get frustrated, but starting a new character is sometimes more work than play.  Personally, I'd rather give the character in world problems than give the player a new character sheet.

However, that doesn't mean that death isn't off the table.  Pulp deaths just shouldn't be random or meaningless.  Environmental hazards and minions can critically inconvenience the heroes or make them fail at their goals, but probably not kill them.  What can kill them?  Direct actions of full villains or the heroic sacrifice of the characters.

Just going down to zero hit points means "you lose." You aren't going to die unless somebody important actually murders you or you choose to go out in a blaze of glory, Leaf on the Wind or Last Stand style.


In short (too late), while I agree that we aren't writing a pulp novel, if somebody pitched a pulp action game and we didn't start out as Conan/Indiana Jones/The Shadow/freaking Carmen San Diego or whoever on day one, I'd consider that a bait and switch.

I'm not signing on to pulp so I can schlub around at level one worrying if I'm going to get shanked by a street rat.  It is zero to hero in the space of character creation.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 29, 2021, 04:04:49 PMFate/Luck/etc points... I still fecking hate metacurrency. But given the genre it might be an unavoidable evil.

Random thought, but I wonder if Fate/Luck/etc. can be changed to a type of attribute or special stat (maybe called Determination or Daring) that needs to be rolled in order to get a "luck" related benefit. Maybe limit it to once per encounter (or until circumstances change) to avoid abuse, with cumulative penalties per time used per session. That way you can get something similar to a metacurrency without actually using a metacurrency.

Or is your deep-seated hatred of metacurrency rooted on something else?

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 29, 2021, 07:53:18 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 29, 2021, 04:04:49 PMFate/Luck/etc points... I still fecking hate metacurrency. But given the genre it might be an unavoidable evil.

Random thought, but I wonder if Fate/Luck/etc. can be changed to a type of attribute or special stat (maybe called Determination or Daring) that needs to be rolled in order to get a "luck" related benefit. Maybe limit it to once per encounter (or until circumstances change) to avoid abuse, with cumulative penalties per time used per session. That way you can get something similar to a metacurrency without actually using a metacurrency.

Or is your deep-seated hatred of metacurrency rooted on something else?

Been thinking just that, add a 7th attribute call it luck and it gives you some benefits.

Quote from: Manic Modron on April 29, 2021, 06:44:36 PM
In my book, pulp characters are going to be quite competent and unable to die through random chance or poor choices on the players part.  If they actually do something like jump in an active volcano I'm likely going to say something like "that is fatal, if you just don't want to play this one we can work something else out."

What I try to punch them in is the failures, not the mortalities.  Villains that get away, McGuffins that are lost, doomsday weapons already fired.

But that doesn't mean there isn't room for more physical dangers.  Being taken out if a fight could lead to injuries that will complicate things later, or simply not being able to reach the goal of the conflict.  What sounds like more fun when you reach zero hit points, rolling up a new character or getting captured and trying to undo the villains plans after an escape from your cells?

Either way, the villains agenda gets to advance while the players goals get frustrated, but starting a new character is sometimes more work than play.  Personally, I'd rather give the character in world problems than give the player a new character sheet.

However, that doesn't mean that death isn't off the table.  Pulp deaths just shouldn't be random or meaningless.  Environmental hazards and minions can critically inconvenience the heroes or make them fail at their goals, but probably not kill them.  What can kill them?  Direct actions of full villains or the heroic sacrifice of the characters.

Just going down to zero hit points means "you lose." You aren't going to die unless somebody important actually murders you or you choose to go out in a blaze of glory, Leaf on the Wind or Last Stand style.


In short (too late), while I agree that we aren't writing a pulp novel, if somebody pitched a pulp action game and we didn't start out as Conan/Indiana Jones/The Shadow/freaking Carmen San Diego or whoever on day one, I'd consider that a bait and switch.

I'm not signing on to pulp so I can schlub around at level one worrying if I'm going to get shanked by a street rat.  It is zero to hero in the space of character creation.

Poor choices on the players part should (IMHO) ALWAYS result in what they should result, even death, never mind the genre of the Game.

I understand you, I don't agree with you, but I understand you.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 29, 2021, 08:02:18 PM

Poor choices on the players part should (IMHO) ALWAYS result in what they should result, even death, never mind the genre of the Game.

I understand you, I don't agree with you, but I understand you.
[/quote]

Of course there is a gradient here.   The poor choices I'm talking about are more mistakes and errors and not self sabotaging nonsense behavior.

Players and GMs alike get tired and make mistakes, we aren't our characters, nobody is at the top of their game even on game nights, etc etc.

If they take an action that is directly  or clearly suicidal, that is different.  That stopped being a mistake and started being a very brief lifestyle choice.

Quote from: Manic Modron on April 29, 2021, 09:28:48 PM
If they take an action that is directly  or clearly suicidal, that is different.  That stopped being a mistake and started being a very brief lifestyle choice.

It's not always easy to know when an action is directly or clearly suicidal, especially in a pulp game. Star Wars is close enough to pulp that I'll use the example of using hyperspace inside an atmosphere. Clearly impossible/suicidal...until it suddenly wasn't anymore.

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 29, 2021, 10:00:59 PM

Quote from: Manic Modron on April 29, 2021, 09:28:48 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 29, 2021, 08:02:18 PM


Poor choices on the players part should (IMHO) ALWAYS result in what they should result, even death, never mind the genre of the Game.

I understand you, I don't agree with you, but I understand you.

Of course there is a gradient here.   The poor choices I'm talking about are more mistakes and errors and not self sabotaging nonsense behavior.

Players and GMs alike get tired and make mistakes, we aren't our characters, nobody is at the top of their game even on game nights, etc etc.

If they take an action that is directly  or clearly suicidal, that is different.  That stopped being a mistake and started being a very brief lifestyle choice.

It's not always easy to know when an action is directly or clearly suicidal, especially in a pulp game. Star Wars is close enough to pulp that I'll use the example of using hyperspace inside an atmosphere. Clearly impossible/suicidal...until it suddenly wasn't anymore.

You're in the temple of whashisname, there's a giant face in the wall with it's mouth open (the GM already decided it's gonna chomp on whatver gets inside the mouth) and you stick your head in it.

Should the GM change on the fly the trap so you don't die?

Are we sure you're not a fan of critical role?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 29, 2021, 10:06:20 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 29, 2021, 10:00:59 PM

Quote from: Manic Modron on April 29, 2021, 09:28:48 PM
If they take an action that is directly  or clearly suicidal, that is different.  That stopped being a mistake and started being a very brief lifestyle choice.

It's not always easy to know when an action is directly or clearly suicidal, especially in a pulp game. Star Wars is close enough to pulp that I'll use the example of using hyperspace inside an atmosphere. Clearly impossible/suicidal...until it suddenly wasn't anymore.

You're in the temple of whashisname, there's a giant face in the wall with it's mouth open (the GM already decided it's gona chomp on whatver gets inside the mouth) and you stick your head in it.

Should the GM change on the fly the trap so you don't die?

Are we sure you're not a fan of critical role?

Are your players actually that retarded and if so why are you playing with them

Also true.  Overall less of a rule and more of a guideline with plenty of room needed for context.


Still, I'm not going to be a hard ass about it, especially if I'm supposed to be running a high heroics game like pulp action.

It might be a point of privilege that the last time I had a player willfully ignorant of consequences was in highschool when somebody jumped into a literal abyss and got pissy when I said "yeah, that was suicide. You aren't coming back from that."

I try to question people these days. 

However, it was only a month or two ago when as party found a saboteur, but it was so late at night nobody picked up on the heavy hints I was trying to drop that there might still be bombs.

Fortunately it was a one shot scenario with no further sessions planned, so I didn't feel TOO bad about detonating the building in their sleep.