Quote from: robiswrong;710391Someone once told me they saw one in a store, and pointed to a spot on the shelf where it supposedly was.

An empty spot on the shelf.

They were clearly hallucinating.

Some people of my acquaintance are also subject to this delusion. But of course they also believe in the Dune prequels and sequels hoax.

The "new coke" comment was interesting. It's both dismissive and snarky, and my immediate reaction had I read it as a developer would be to defensively dismiss it. However, the second reaction with a marketing hat on should have been to realise that it might be a representative reaction, and to take it seriously.

Still, I think that if Butcher had taken the time to write in more detail, with "new coke" as the punchline, it would have been more valuable feedback.

Yeah that's the problem.  "New Coke" is both a pithy, snarky, throwaway line and a very detailed and accurate criticism depending on who wrote the comment and who read it.

If he thought that someone was going to read just "New Coke" and have an epiphany instead of tossing the paper in the trash, that's just silly.

He sure struck the bullseye though.

Quote from: CRKrueger;710415If he thought that someone was going to read just "New Coke" and have an epiphany instead of tossing the paper in the trash, that's just silly.

nah, he probably thought that it was a wake-up comment that was fairly obvious.  makes sense to me, but certainly as can be seen here some folks are fairly clueless to its implications.  maybe a US-centered comment?  trying for benefit of the doubt, here. . . . :/

It hurts egos, sure. But good criticism before utter self-destruction needs to be ruthless. There is a reason to the saying "cruel to be kind," whether we like that truth or not.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;710312I've avoided Butcher's novels (Despite having two friends who are rabid fans) because the descriptions of the plots sounded extremely vanilla and twee, like actual play reports from some teenager's World of Darkness campaign that they ran at Church Camp one summer.

Well, I'm not one of your friends but I am a rabid Dresden fanboy and I can tell you that you're not wrong. You are however, missing out.

The plots and characters are formulaic. Intentionally. Storm Front was written because his creative writing instructor told him that formulas worked and were still in use for a reason, so he sought out to write the biggest pile of clichés possible-- to prove to her how much that book would suck and that nobody would ever want to buy it.

He really showed her, eh?

Thing is, though, the execution is brilliant. The fantasy wizard clichés and the noir detective clichés blend into interesting new textures and flavors, the characters show remarkable depth and growth as the series progresses, and the books are just incredible good fun.

Quote from: FaerieGodfather;710430Well, I'm not one of your friends but I am a rabid Dresden fanboy and I can tell you that you're not wrong. You are however, missing out.

The plots and characters are formulaic. Intentionally. Storm Front was written because his creative writing instructor told him that formulas worked and were still in use for a reason, so he sought out to write the biggest pile of clichés possible-- to prove to her how much that book would suck and that nobody would ever want to buy it.

He really showed her, eh?

Thing is, though, the execution is brilliant. The fantasy wizard clichés and the noir detective clichés blend into interesting new textures and flavors, the characters show remarkable depth and growth as the series progresses, and the books are just incredible good fun.

Agreed. They are not high literature, but they are great and very difficult to put down. I am left a bit "eh?" with the amount that has been piled on the protagonist. To mix metaphors: when will we see the icing on the cake that breaks the camel`s back?

(back to thread now....)

Dune sequels? Non -Gygax Greyhawk stuff? Highlander sequels?
Oh my, I ended up amidst a bunch of delusional lunatics!
;-)

BTW, I think "New Coke" is a very clear feedback (no, it's not a US-only reference), they did not heed it because that's what they wanted IMHO (without the EPIC FAIL obviously).

Quote from: YourSwordisMine;710089The actual full interview is full of them. My favorite is:

"But yeah, I did the playtest for D&D 4th Edition, I wrote a two-word review. "New Coke" and sent it in to them. I hoped that would get through, but it didn't seem to."

This is why in my review for 4E for The Banning Place, I referred to that edition as New D&D and previous editions as D&D Classic.

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;710444This is why in my review for 4E for The Banning Place, I referred to that edition as New D&D and previous editions as D&D Classic.

JG

Whenever someone mentions New Coke I think of a GI Joe review someone showed me with an unmasked Cobra Commander clutching his smouldering face.


"New Coke! It burns!"


"4th Edition D&D! It burns!! It burns!!!

Quote from: Omega;710503
"4th Edition D&D! It burns!! It burns!!!

I do so love these elemental archons. I was never into zombies, orcs, goblins and other standard "horde" creatures, so these fit the bill nicely. Due to their prominent "military unit" theme it was pretty easy to scale them too.

I may not agree with Jim Butcher about rpgs, but man, I loved the Dresden file books. Easily one of my all time favorite series.

Quote from: CRKrueger;710415If he thought that someone was going to read just "New Coke" and have an epiphany instead of tossing the paper in the trash, that's just silly.

He knew whatever he wrote, at the point in time, would change nothing.  As they had knowingly jumped the shark in their design and were NOT going to go back.

Quote from: Arduin;710642He knew whatever he wrote, at the point in time, would change nothing.  As they had knowingly jumped the shark in their design and were NOT going to go back.

This. I'm sure he knew when he wrote it, that it would be little more than an "I told you so."

Quote from: Opaopajr;710426It hurts egos, sure. But good criticism before utter self-destruction needs to be ruthless. There is a reason to the saying "cruel to be kind," whether we like that truth or not.

Or indeed, whether one is intending to be kind or just cruel.  

JG