SPECIAL NOTICE
Malicious code was found on the site, which has been removed, but would have been able to access files and the database, revealing email addresses, posts, and encoded passwords (which would need to be decoded). However, there is no direct evidence that any such activity occurred. REGARDLESS, BE SURE TO CHANGE YOUR PASSWORDS. And as is good practice, remember to never use the same password on more than one site. While performing housekeeping, we also decided to upgrade the forums.
This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Some D&D/Dragonlance insight from Jim Butcher

Started by Piestrio, November 19, 2013, 08:20:50 AM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages 1 2 3 4
User actions

Just Another Snake Cult

#30
November 20, 2013, 06:14:42 PM
I've avoided Butcher's novels (Despite having two friends who are rabid fans) because the descriptions of the plots sounded extremely vanilla and twee, like actual play reports from some teenager's World of Darkness campaign that they ran at Church Camp one summer.

However, he impressed me in that interview. The "New Coke" line was hysterical for it's mercilessly succinct accuracy, and the "Zombie Apocalypse Keep on the Borderlands" game sounded like a real hoot.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

therealjcm

#31
November 20, 2013, 06:21:55 PM
Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;710312I've avoided Butcher's novels (Despite having two friends who are rabid fans) because the descriptions of the plots sounded extremely vanilla and twee, like actual play reports from some teenager's World of Darkness campaign that they ran at Church Camp one summer.

I avoided the books for a long time because I was convinced that all urban fantasy was nothing more than romance novels with sexy vampires and witches.

(It's still more as less true for everything aside from Dresden so far as I can see)

YourSwordisMine

#32
November 20, 2013, 07:08:28 PM
I could understand how someone could not make the New-Coke connection.

It happened in 1985... 28 years ago? There is a whole generation out there that wasn't even born yet...
Quote from: ExploderwizardStarting out as fully formed awesome and riding the awesome train across a flat plane to awesome town just doesn\'t feel like D&D. :)

Quote from: ExploderwizardThe interwebs are like Tahiti - its a magical place.

Arduin

#33
November 20, 2013, 07:26:36 PM Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 07:29:20 PM by Arduin
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;710322I could understand how someone could not make the New-Coke connection.

It happened in 1985... 28 years ago? There is a whole generation out there that wasn't even born yet...


I keep forgetting about the kids that are on these threads.  BUT, even a 28 year old kid who was a business person would know that.  It was the "Edsel" marketing debacle of that decade.

Ladybird

#34
November 20, 2013, 07:44:00 PM
Quote from: Warthur;710311Er, not even slightly. It draws and direct and apt comparison to a very well-understood disaster in branding which most people (including literally everyone in this thread except you) instantly grasps. "Fuck you" would be generic and useless: "New Coke" makes a concrete connection to a specific incident and says "this thing feels like it's going to wind up like that thing".

It's not that I don't understand the reference he tried to make, it's just that it's stupid and isn't useful as feedback. No details of what exactly was wrong. No details of what worked. No details of which of WotC's design goals were met or failed, and how.

QuoteI am fairly sure Jim Butcher didn't actually sign up to the 4E playtest as part of a 9-5 job. He's making ends meet just fine.

Irrelevant. There might not have been any money changing hands, but he still volunteered to do a job. And if you volunteer to do a job, you should do it.

QuoteAgain, you can give honest and fairly detailed feedback and at the same time be quite terse,

Yes.

Quoteand drawing the "New Coke" comparison is actually an artful way to do just that. Just as a picture paints a thousand words, citing a specific past incident makes an analogy which is, again, remarkably clear to everyone here except you.

No.

But hey, the famous guy agreed with your opinion of a game! So keep on tying yourself in verbal knots to justify his insights.
one two FUCK YOU

Arduin

#35
November 20, 2013, 08:07:50 PM
Quote from: Ladybird;710334No.

Yes, you are just wholly ignorant of that debacle.  Your responses PROVE that beyond ANY doubt.

flyerfan1991

#36
November 20, 2013, 08:12:11 PM
Quote from: therealjcm;710314I avoided the books for a long time because I was convinced that all urban fantasy was nothing more than romance novels with sexy vampires and witches.

(It's still more as less true for everything aside from Dresden so far as I can see)

And werewolves.  (Vampires and werewolves and witches, oh my!)

I'd love to see some UF out there that has NONE of those three, but I've not seen it yet.

therealjcm

#37
November 20, 2013, 08:29:08 PM
Quote from: flyerfan1991;710344And werewolves.  (Vampires and werewolves and witches, oh my!)

I'd love to see some UF out there that has NONE of those three, but I've not seen it yet.

There is some proto-UF, Imajica and American Gods, that don't have any of those things in the McSupernatural form of most UF.

JasperAK

#38
November 20, 2013, 08:40:48 PM
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;710322I could understand how someone could not make the New-Coke connection.

It happened in 1985... 28 years ago? There is a whole generation out there that wasn't even born yet...

I'm sure every single MBA and brand manager in the world has heard of 'New Coke'. I learned about it in Marketing 101.

And for the argument about it being useless feedback, just stop. Anytime you hear 'New coke' in relation to something, it means that the powers that be think they know better than the consumers what they want. And they have every metric under the sun to back up their position. Except they are wrong. For whatever reason.

In WOTCs case, they listened to a vocal minority about what they wanted in a game and forgot that because of its market position as THE gateway RPG, D&D should be the most inclusive game under the sun. I think they at least understand this now. Can they deliver is the question though.

The Traveller

#39
November 20, 2013, 09:10:25 PM
Quote from: therealjcm;710314I avoided the books for a long time because I was convinced that all urban fantasy was nothing more than romance novels with sexy vampires and witches.

(It's still more as less true for everything aside from Dresden so far as I can see)
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

Warthur

#40
November 20, 2013, 09:14:36 PM
Quote from: Ladybird;710334It's not that I don't understand the reference he tried to make, it's just that it's stupid and isn't useful as feedback. No details of what exactly was wrong. No details of what worked. No details of which of WotC's design goals were met or failed, and how.
It would be pointless to provide such things if your major point of feedback is "your design goals are badly misconceived and you should scrap everything and rethink this whole project from the beginning." If you fundamentally disagree with the design goals then saying "here's how you can meet those goals better" is like saying "here's how you can jump off a cliff with more panache" - it might help the person receiving the feedback accomplish what they are trying to do, but it doesn't stop what they are trying to do being self-destructive.

But hey, the famous guy disagreed with your opinion of a game! So keep on tying yourself in verbal knots to pretend the comparison isn't appropriate.
I am no longer posting here or reading this forum because Pundit has regularly claimed credit for keeping this community active. I am sick of his bullshit for reasons I explain here and I don\'t want to contribute to anything he considers to be a personal success on his part.

I recommend The RPG Pub as a friendly place where RPGs can be discussed and where the guiding principles of moderation are "be kind to each other" and "no politics". It\'s pretty chill so far.

robiswrong

#41
November 20, 2013, 09:28:50 PM
Quote from: Ladybird;710334No.

But hey, the famous guy agreed with your opinion of a game! So keep on tying yourself in verbal knots to justify his insights.

I think that pointing out that the game is fine, but will probably piss off people that are expecting something more 'traditional' is pretty clear, good feedback.

I don't know that going into further detail in terms of "well, saving throws really don't mean what they used to" helps much.  If anything, it dilutes the message.

And I say this as someone that likes 4e.

Daddy Warpig

#42
November 20, 2013, 09:44:43 PM
Quote from: jcfiala;710159I think he meant it in a sort of "There are no sequels to Highlander" way. :)
What do you mean? There are no sequels to Highlander.

Not. A. One.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."
"Ulysses" by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Geek Gab:
Geek Gab

robiswrong

#43
November 20, 2013, 10:01:42 PM
Quote from: Daddy Warpig;710384What do you mean? There are no sequels to Highlander.

Not. A. One.

Someone once told me they saw one in a store, and pointed to a spot on the shelf where it supposedly was.

An empty spot on the shelf.

They were clearly hallucinating.

Shipyard Locked

#44
November 20, 2013, 10:28:28 PM
Quote from: robiswrong;710377And I say this as someone that likes 4e.

I also enjoyed 4e, and I too have to humbly concede the New Coke line is a flawless and pithy encapsulation.
Print
Go Up Pages 1 2 3 4
User actions