Quote from: HappyDaze;1061220That doesn't seem narrative to me; it just feels like a flexible resolution system as long as the characters are still using their abilities to make changes in the world rather than players acting outside of their characters to make changes in the game world.

PEG's understanding of narrative mechanics isn't the same as everyone else. The part where you make mechanical rulings based on the fiction (Can I support my friends persuasion with repair?) is about as narrative as PEG gets. Bennies aren't even a normal meta currency. They are basically luck and your wildcard has them not the player. GM's get bennies so that's as meta as that currency gets.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1060480The Kickstarter is up

I am a big fan of this game and I really like how new editions are incremental and how the company releases free pdf conversion doc for older editions so you do not have to get the newer books.

Personally, I am just excited to get the book in a newer format.

Is this the RPG where the GM always says "yes"? I thought there was no where left for the rules to go as written.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1061234Is this the RPG where the GM always says "yes"? I thought there was no where left for the rules to go as written.

I'm going to say 'no', because I don't know what you are talking about.

I'm a fan of Savage Worlds, so I definitely backed this. I would like more of their existing products, especially the Companion book PDF's as stretch goals, but the Ultimate option is still a good deal for me even without stretch goals.

Quote from: Dragonblade;1061276I'm a fan of Savage Worlds, so I definitely backed this. I would like more of their existing products, especially the Companion book PDF's as stretch goals, but the Ultimate option is still a good deal for me even without stretch goals.

Shane said yesterday that PDFs of older products will be going up as mini-stretch goals.

Is there a place where us non-backers can find what the suggested rules changes are?  I'm curious, but as I stated above, I have no money (nor a credit card to pledge on KS) to actually back this.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1061310Is there a place where us non-backers can find what the suggested rules changes are?  I'm curious, but as I stated above, I have no money (nor a credit card to pledge on KS) to actually back this.

The campaign page summarizes them, peginc.com has gone into details on several in the past month's weekly updates, and this Tuesday will see the release of a free Halloween adventure showing off the new chase rules.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1061310Is there a place where us non-backers can find what the suggested rules changes are?  I'm curious, but as I stated above, I have no money (nor a credit card to pledge on KS) to actually back this.

The conversion guide will be released for free to current owners, which will include all the rules changes.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1061316The conversion guide will be released for free to current owners, which will include all the rules changes.

and a lot of the 3rd party settings will be putting their quickstarts out as part of the KS too. So that's great news.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1061234Is this the RPG where the GM always says "yes"? I thought there was no where left for the rules to go as written.

What are you referring to?

Quote from: Rhedyn;1061316The conversion guide will be released for free to current owners, which will include all the rules changes.

So I have to wait?  Aw man...    Is cool.  Thank you.

Quote from: tenbones;1061360and a lot of the 3rd party settings will be putting their quickstarts out as part of the KS too. So that's great news.

If I were to support one company on KS it would Pinnacle, they've proven to know how to make their products on time with minimal issues.  Sadly, I don't have a credit card, and as much as I would like to support at the Digital level, being Canadian the exchange rate would be a bit of a killer as well.  Cuz I'd like to see some of these quickstarts.

Quote from: S'mon;1060937I had a 'Face' PC with Very Attractive Edge in a zombie apocalypse War of the Dead game. Obviously I didn't expect it to apply vs the zombies ("*yum!*") but I was really annoyed when the GM completely ignored it vs the biker gang boss too! I think this was because negotiating with the bikers successfully was against the intended railroad of the campaign. I think I got some super high rolls too.

But then after I had to leave the game early that night (due to riots across London) the GM then allowed another player to intimidate the bikers into leaving, which was actually a lot more against the intended railroad than my attempt to ally with them. Also his PC was a combat monster with no Face abilities, so he got to dominate in combat AND in diplomacy.

The irony was that the GM had told us to make normal people for the game. Everyone else made a normal person (mine was a Texan female oil company executive, others made police, entertainer etc) - his was an SAS special forces combat wombat. The experience really reminded me how much more robust class-based RPG systems are.

OK, your GM sucked. At least in this particular scenario, I don't know about in general.

So, do you happen to want a system that protects you from that:D?

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1061234Is this the RPG where the GM always says "yes"? I thought there was no where left for the rules to go as written.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1061273I'm going to say 'no', because I don't know what you are talking about.

Quote from: carpocratian;1061390What are you referring to?

My best guess is that he's talking about something like Burning Wheel, and somehow mistaking it for Savage Worlds. The contrast is amusing, indeed:).
Shawn, let me just state that part of the Savage Worlds GM's job is to say "no", and this is in the rules;).

Quote from: AsenRG;1061480OK, your GM sucked. At least in this particular scenario, I don't know about in general.

So, do you happen to want a system that protects you from that:D?

Hmm. The guy was not obviously the Worst GM Ever though I did eventually quit the game, but that was over his rule that if player was not present the PC LITERALLY CEASED TO EXIST until their return. So e.g. our driver would vanish and we would have no memory of the character! He certainly taught me some GM techniques to avoid.

I do think class based systems can give some protection vs mediocre GMing. I did really like Savage Worlds as long as we were not in combat though - the zombie combat sucked but the skill/task system is very nice.

Quote from: S'mon;1061689Hmm. The guy was not obviously the Worst GM Ever though I did eventually quit the game, but that was over his rule that if player was not present the PC LITERALLY CEASED TO EXIST until their return. So e.g. our driver would vanish and we would have no memory of the character! He certainly taught me some GM techniques to avoid.

I do think class based systems can give some protection vs mediocre GMing. I did really like Savage Worlds as long as we were not in combat though - the zombie combat sucked but the skill/task system is very nice.

I try to avoid saying the GM sucked. I much rather look at it from a rules angle. He wasn't following the rules/His interpretations weren't in line with what a reasonable assumption would be. No system can prevent bad results from ignoring parts of it.

Breaking the rules doesn't make him a Bad GM, he could have done the same thing by giving you a ridiculous penalty and the other character a huge bonus simply because he prefers that player. That's a flaw in the rules, but it is an admitted flaw that the GM difficulty mods are there to handle edge cases and it's where "GM call" decides whether or not something is fun. The reasoning behind these calls like "I prefer that player" can be the result of being a bad GM, but something like, "I think this is fair" doesn't display that. At worst, it might show the GM has a poor understanding of fair and needs a much heavier system to guide him.

This is exactly why I don't make rules modifications to most systems until I've really given it a good run-through. I try to play them RAW as possible. Experience can carry you the rest of the way if there is something not covered.

I also try to use as many of the sub-systems as possible when running something new. Chase rules, melee/ranged combat, vehicle combat, social skill challenges and any permutations they have outlined. It's pretty clear what the Attractive Edge is supposed to mean with its mechanical underpinnings - so playing the ball where it lands is the best way to figure out if it hits the sweet-spot in actual play.

I don't let the narrative fluff fool me.