Quote from: Bill;678873If you roll an 18/00 strength and 100 for Psionics on the same character in
 1E, you officiallay have 'Won' at Dnd.

"What does he get for Intelligence?"
[roll]
".....5...."

Quote from: StormBringer;678899

See that section on the left, where there are no trees?  You can see pretty far along that part.  I will now direct your attention to the right where you can't see a goddamn thing because all the fucking trees are in the way.  If you climb up a tree on the top of a hill, you might have a sight line of more than a thousand feet, but again, it's because the fucking trees aren't in your line of sight anymore.  At ground level, there are fucking trees in the way of your line of sight.  Also, in the picture above, there is a gigantic fucking hill right in front of you blocking your line of sight.

Where do you suppose a group of bandits would be hanging out in the above picture?

I can't believe this is literally a matter of not seeing the forest for the trees.

"These bandits have learned the first lesson in How Not To Be Seen: Do not stand up."

Quote from: James Gillen;679231"These bandits have learned the first lesson in How Not To Be Seen: Do not stand up."

I think that's a thread win. Or, it would be, but 'thread win' is such a tinny phrase. We need a good woody phrase instead like "Conversation Conquest!"

Quote from: soviet;678986No it isn't. It literally says to do this after the roll. The resolution mechanic is essentially roll d20, 1=autofail, 2-19=GM decides, 20=autosucceed.

So the words don't actually mean what they say:

Quote from: soviet;677886Page 3:

Here's another secret: You don't actually have to set the DC before the player rolls the ability check. Decide whether the character succeeds based on the check result.

As in, don't use setting a DC, use just the d20 die itself like a percentile die.

Quote from: soviet;677886You'll probably find that your gut feeling (and the player's) squares pretty well with the set DCs presented here. A number below 10 is never going to make it unless the task is trivially simple. A number in the low teens is good enough for an easy task. A number in the high teens will succeed at a moderate task. And when a player rolls a 20 or better, there's usually little question that the character succeeds.
Your players will never know.

Those are percentage values. It still depends on stochastic determination to give a value to answer the above ranges. That's still before the roll. It's a different system used for stochastic determination, shifting from DC setting to % equivalent, but it still is based on the randomizer determining success.

Or are these words you qouted not the words in the book? You did reprint in context, correct?

Quote from: Opaopajr;679273So the words don't actually mean what they say:



As in, don't use setting a DC, use just the d20 die itself like a percentile die.



Those are percentage values. It still depends on stochastic determination to give a value to answer the above ranges. That's still before the roll. It's a different system used for stochastic determination, shifting from DC setting to % equivalent, but it still is based on the randomizer determining success.

Or are these words you qouted not the words in the book? You did reprint in context, correct?

It's a copy paste from the playtest packet.

Nowhere does it say that you do anything before the roll. Nowhere does it say anything about percentages. The text you yourself quoted simply says to have the player roll the dice and then (in secret, no less) for the GM to use their gut feeling to decide whether or not it was a success.

The check result is the dice roll. Therefore, if you decide whether or not the character succeeds based on the check result, you can only take such an action after the dice have been rolled. Seriously, I don't see how this isn't clear.

Note also that the text says decide not determine or the like. This is a clear sign I think. If you're setting a DC number beforehand, what's to decide?

I picked up the "roll it and decide after" from a GM a few years ago. Generally referred to as a 'don't fuck it up' roll.

If I'm not mistaken, that whole section is in gray, right?  So it's completely optional.  I don't criticize an entire game based on an optional rule.  Don't like it, don't play with it.

Quote from: RunningLaser;677560For those of you who are playtesting 5e- when a new packet comes out, do you start your game from scratch or just make the necessary changes and move on?

We're just tweaking things as we gain a level, and moving on.  So, during the level transition, we make the changes, and work on a cogent explanation in-game for anything that would appear different.  Most of the changes are differing mechanics, and not necessarily different in-game results.  For example, skills was just an "Add a d6 to your ability check", so no in-game explanation for that as it was just a change in the odds of success.  

Now, the Wizard now having an at-will attack cantrip, when he didn't before, will require an in-game explanation of training or magical revelation or magic item or something.

Quote from: Mistwell;679454We're just tweaking things as we gain a level, and moving on.  So, during the level transition, we make the changes, and work on a cogent explanation in-game for anything that would appear different.  Most of the changes are differing mechanics, and not necessarily different in-game results.  For example, skills was just an "Add a d6 to your ability check", so no in-game explanation for that as it was just a change in the odds of success.  

How do you do that with this newest revision?  They got rid of skills and many classes (like the Blackgaurd, specialist rogues, specialist clerics, etc)?

For example, in the previous packet, I had a dwarven cleric of protection with the interposing shield and hold the line feats.  There is no way I can replicate that in the new packet.

QuoteNow, the Wizard now having an at-will attack cantrip, when he didn't before, will require an in-game explanation of training or magical revelation or magic item or something.

Wizards have always had at-will attack cantrips from day one.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;679459How do you do that with this newest revision?  They got rid of skills and many classes (like the Blackgaurd, specialist rogues, specialist clerics, etc)?

Skills I already explained.  All the same skills are there - there never were actual skills, it was just a skill die you added to ability checks, and now there is no skill die, but the characters still do the same thing they always did - roll an ability check.  There was no "cannot use untrained" concept.

As for the classes, we fortunately didn't have any of those in the party.

QuoteFor example, in the previous packet, I had a dwarven cleric of protection with the interposing shield and hold the line feats.  There is no way I can replicate that in the new packet.

I am sure there are changes that are much more difficult to explain than others, I'm just relating that so far, for our particular group, it has not been a big deal yet.

QuoteWizards have always had at-will attack cantrips from day one.

Day one they had them.  Then they were gone, apparently.  Now they are back again.  The wizard was created during a time when they were, apparently, gone.  I say apparently because I am just going off what the player was telling me - I hadn't read the cantrips section with enough detail to know what he had access to for any given playtest package.  It's possible he just missed the entry for an attack cantrip in a package.

Quote from: Mistwell;679469Day one they had them.  Then they were gone, apparently.  Now they are back again.  The wizard was created during a time when they were, apparently, gone.  I say apparently because I am just going off what the player was telling me - I hadn't read the cantrips section with enough detail to know what he had access to for any given playtest package.  It's possible he just missed the entry for an attack cantrip in a package.

I think your player probably missed them, because at will cantrips like shocking grasp and ray of frost have always been there.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;679459How do you do that with this newest revision?  They got rid of skills and many classes (like the Blackgaurd, specialist rogues, specialist clerics, etc)?

For example, in the previous packet, I had a dwarven cleric of protection with the interposing shield and hold the line feats.  There is no way I can replicate that in the new packet.

I think it matters a lot less in actual play than in the minds of the players. Sure, there are different names and you can't do the exact same things in combat, but ultimately the character can remain the same thematically without having abilities that fully reflect their theme.

Is it an annoying pain? Sure, but it's a playtest, and that's what they signed up for.

Quote from: The_Rooster;679119They saw Bob, their mate, get dropped from an arrow fired from someone around 320 feet away and Pete, Bob's best friend, charged off to get revenge and the rest followed.

You said the encounter distance was a thousand feet.  Which is it, 300 feet or 300 yards?  Because someone closed a 700ft gap in your first version to fire an arrow and kill a bandit.  At which point, normal people would take to the woods and... I dunno...  set up an ambush?  You know, the kind of thing bandits would do.

QuoteIt was only after another couple of them dropped (within the same round no less) that they realised how dumb an idea that was.

No, it was only after another couple of them dropped within the same round that you realised how dumb an idea that was.  And even without a lick of military training, you should have realized that closing a 1000ft gap would take somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 rounds at full speed.  We are assuming they were going something like full speed, because you said they were charging.  So, let's look at this in a modern context.  You and your buddies are scavenging a car by the side of the road.  A shot rings out, and one of your friends falls over dead.  You are arguing that the first thing to cross your mind is "Let's all jump on our ten speed bikes and race in the direction of that shot!"  By the time 2/3 of the distance is covered and two or three more have been killed, the prevailing sentiment is "Keep going!"

I'll let you roll that one around your head for a while.

QuoteThis is called roleplaying NPC's. You know, 'cause they weren't in the military. Now if they'd not rotated their crops, you'd have something to complain about.

Exactly.  They weren't in the military.  No one in the military will charge 1000ft across an open field against an unknown force unless they are ordered.  So charging the party was exactly the opposite of what they would do.  Because, as we all have agreed, they weren't soldiers.

They were farmers, and likely very skittish, because they have zero actual combat training.  Hence, watching an arrow embed itself in your partner's face is not a matter of mild curiosity.  And unless they were also berserkers, it isn't a situation for riding full tilt toward the danger.  It is a really good time to lay low, gather up as much additional salvage as possible in a minute or so and slink back in to the woods to hide.

Then again, for most of us, NPCs are not suicidal bags of xp for the players to slaughter.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;679104In the scenario as described? Nowhere in that picture. Because they were explicitly on a road finishing up a raid against a caravan. And there is no road in your picture.

So, the left hand side is open.  Like a road.  And on the right side is what insiders like to call 'cover'.  Which is where you go when you are being fired upon.  Contrary to popular belief, one does not charge directly up the open space at the people who are shooting at you.  Because you can be easily seen, which is different than on the right, where you can't be easily seen.

Quote from: StormBringer;679595You said the encounter distance was a thousand feet.  Which is it, 300 feet or 300 yards?

Jesus fuck Christ you people are so anal shit spews from your mouths. Give it a rest. You are superior in every conceivable way and I suck and should never pick up a dice.

Happy?