Quote from: JimBobOzMost people who start a book will never finish it, that's a fact. All the other difficulties are just minor shit compared to actually finishing a whole book.

Tell me about it.  If blogs were working, I've got a whole entry about how difficult the last 6000-12000 words are

Yeah, if the increase is only 5%-15% I don't see that leaving a door open for a smaller vendor to take advantage.

The amount of lost traffic compared to the money saved in commission by going to a smaller site with the above increases wouldn't make enough of a difference.

Quote from: cnath.rmCould be interesting indeed, would support rather fast dloads as well.

That's what made me think of bittorrent.  The main cost for the distributor is bandwidth I'd imagine, and bt allows you to offer large files for download without raping your bandwidth.  Only thing is I don't know if you'd get enough people downloading at a time to make it worth it.

I just hate to see someone try to corner the market on what is essentially an ftp server with some shopping cart scripts.  And I HATE DTRPG's design.  That brick background is terrible, the thing looks like it's right out of 1997.  Still, it is a handy way for me to get Exalted comics.  I'd buy a lot more comic PDFs if I knew somewhere to get them.

From my Blog:


This is just stupid, frankly.

If you're a small publisher, you have no real motivation to stay with DTRPGNOW or whatever the fuck they call themselves.
Lulu is cheaper, and really: how many people would just go to DTRPGNOW thinking "I have no idea what I want to buy, i'm just going to browse the small press pdfs"?
Please.

Most people who go to a site like DTRPG or RPGnow do so because they already have a product in mind; a product they heard of somewhere else, that they are going to go buy. There is no concrete difference with them going to some other site to buy it compared to DTRPGNOW, and they will be more likely to buy the PDF the cheaper you can make it.
Since the usual suspects have decided to jack up the price thinking (erroneously) that they have a monopoly, its time for the smaller publishers to get the fuck out of dodge.

I say "erroneously" because there's two huge sources of competition: the first is, for small publishers, ANY OTHER FUCKING PDF-SELLING WEBSITE.  Like I said above, no one is going "window shopping" at these sites, or practically no one. If someone is going to buy Bumquist Productions' "Avocado: the Dipping RPG", they're going to do it because they already heard of the game, already decided they want the game, and they will figure out where to go to buy it. The only thing DTRPG has going for it for those kind of publishers is that it has the word "RPG" in the name, which I would guess is not worth a 30% price hike to you or your customers.  You're better off selling in Lulu, or any of the other mainstream PDF selling sites that aren't for uber-specialized fucking geeks who think the words "RPG" are important enough to pay 30% more; and trust that the one or two sales you might lose because you aren't on the DTRPGNOW will be more than made up for by being able to take in more profit from the sales from all the people who, hearing about you/seeing your site/clicking the link/etc. go to lulu and buy your PDF there.

But the second source of competition, in particular for the larger publishers, is the pirate networks.  These stupid fucks are dealing with pissed off people, who have never fully trusted DTRPG ever since the DRM fiasco, and now they want to raise prices the second that they've bought out their primary competitor? Fuck's sake.

I mean really, I could see a shitload of people saying, "well, the hell with that, I'm just going to over here to eMule and download the fucking thing for free, because I would rather be the one doing "the robbing" rather than being robbed".
Finally, of course, there's the difference between PDF and print. If that price range is very close, then many people will chose to suck up the extra couple of bucks and buy the print edition (and then possibly pirate or not pirate the PDF edition).

So all this is a case of DTRPG going mad with their own delusions of power. And just maybe, if publishers actually get smart about these things, it will not end well for them.

RPGPundit

I object to the whole thing because frankly, I've found DTRPG to be a bit shady at times. There's more than a few people who aren't, but everyone's being shouted down with bogus "increased traffic" bullshit.

The increased traffic they're talking about is the combined RPGNow, ENWorld Gamestore, & DTRPG traffic. Well, that's pretty fucking bogus "increased traffic" stats.

Yeah, it's increased from DTRPG's traffic alone, but seriously, it's pretty fucking shady.

Then: Exclusive contracts.

That's hinky enough...

But let us not forget who runs DTRPG...

WHite Wolf. The wonderful people who have shown they're perfectly willing to fuck people over. Remember their trying to charge LARPers for play?

You can bet your sweet ass that something will come down the pipe that's completely outrageous within a year.

I love how the people who are talking the loudest about how great this is, are the same people who are profiting the most from the merger.

I'm taking a 30% pay cut on my products. Now, my math may be wrong, but what the fuck, when it comes to my Wild Turkey budget, I deserve to be able to engage in a bit of hyperbole.

I get 30% of the sales. AFTER the distributer cuts.

Now, it used to be 25% for the distrubtor, leaving 75 cents on the dollar.

Of that, I got 25 cents off the dollar

NOW...

The distributor takes that nice 35% cut.

That means they leave 65 cents.

of that, I get 21.5 cents.

3.5 cents on the dollar may not sound like much, but for those 3.5 cents on the dollar, I'm not recieving anything new except for a false increase in traffic, and someone punching me in the balls and telling me it's a blowjob.


I don't like it. No, sir, not one bit.

Quote from: RPGPunditLulu is cheaper, and really: how many people would just go to DTRPGNOW thinking "I have no idea what I want to buy, i'm just going to browse the small press pdfs"?
Please.

I think that is where you are wrong. Massively, wrong.

I think most people who buy PDFs actually do go to RPGnow or whatever other site and say "lets check out the Sci-Fi section for a new game" without having any specific game in mind. If this were not the case the publishers would not care so much about traffic. If the primary way buyers ended up seeing your products was because they saw a review/add/thread about it elsewhere then traffic wouldn't be much of factor for publishers. The bottom line is PDF sites (IMO) have a high impulse buy factor.

For the record, you can get FanPro's RPGs (Shadowrun, Battletech, etc) from Battlecorps, without watermarks. IIRC, Paizo's online store and several others sell them too.

Quote from: RPGPunditBut the second source of competition, in particular for the larger publishers, is the pirate networks.  These stupid fucks are dealing with pissed off people, who have never fully trusted DTRPG ever since the DRM fiasco, and now they want to raise prices the second that they've bought out their primary competitor? Fuck's sake.

True, I've always thought that DTRPG is more than a bit out of touch with their market.  The prices are too high across the board, and they didn't see the DRM fiasco coming.  I think the problem is that for most games you can largely ignore the internet chatter.  To be honest, if every gamer on RPGnet or ENWorld decided to boycott WotC or WW, they'd never even notice.  With online distribution though, the angry internet nerds are a substantial portion of their fanbase.  And few things piss off angry internet nerds like DRM.  They might as well design their site so you can't buy files if you're using Firefox while they're at it.

I was one of the people leading the attack over the DRM nonsense, writing to publishers and encouraging people to buy DRM free PDFs at RPGnow.  I'm just glad they finally listened to reason and got rid of the spyware nonsense.  Don't try to keep me from doing whatever the fuck I want with my own files.

My biggest bitch about them now (so long as I'm ranting and PDF publishers are listening) is that sometimes you buy a file and it's locked down.  Generally its the bookmarks that get me - I like a PDF to be set up with nested bookmarks - one for each chapter then expand the tree to get each section.  I have Acrobat, so if they aren't set up I don't mind doing them myself.  But don't make me hunt down a crack after not doing good bookmarks.

Okay, nerd rage over.  

I guess since the beans are spilt...

I am not happy but, clearly, have no choice.
If I stick with things as they are I'm taking a 10% extra chunk out of my money and while this is supposed to be a merger I rather suspect DTRPG is the dominant partner.

As a smaller publisher I worry about getting sidelined and losing prestige and exposure to the bigger companies on DTRPG, the ones who overcharge, have unrealistic expectations and whose whining about sharing 'shelf space' with the smaller publishers lead to the creation of Edge.

I'll wait to see how things turn out but from where I'm sitting at the moment it looks like I'll be charged more and make less sales while losing some of the functionality and exposure that was the best aspect of RPGnow.

With the dollar as crap as it is and with me being in the UK, any hit is a harsh hit.

Quote from: GRIMAs a smaller publisher I worry about getting sidelined and losing prestige and exposure to the bigger companies on DTRPG, the ones who overcharge, have unrealistic expectations and whose whining about sharing 'shelf space' with the smaller publishers lead to the creation of Edge.

And this is the real meat of it. Suddenly, we (small publishers which include giants like Ronin Arts) will be buried with WOTC and the like. DTRPG is notorious for dropping small publishers low in their menu scheme. It will be doubly worse with a vast amount of back stock that these publishers can pump out. We have seen this in microcosm at RPGNow just recently with Hero games dumping a bunch of their old mag titles across the front page.

Which brings me to Pundit's points. Direct referral is a means of getting sales but front page exposure and new releases make up a lot of publisher's sales. This is gleaned from talking with them and the referral mechanism that RPGNow has.

I want to clarify, I do not believe this is the End of Times. I am a publisher and my costs have just increased. I hope you can understand my (and other publisher's) frustration. To just write off OBS would be a bad move for any publisher serious about selling quantities of PDFs. Is 10% increase going to drive anyone out of business? I can't imagine the situation but you will see a jump of at least $.50 from some publishers. Some publishers are already at 35% so they may or may not but it would be a great opportunity for them to do so. Adamant (GMS) has said they will not increase prices.

So, not happy about paying more for the same service. I will be looking into alternatives. I think the PDF market will survive this.

Bill

Please allow me to preface this with the statement that I do not support the pirate movement. I understand peoples' reasons for doing so, I just happen to think that taking someone's intellectual property is not the solution.

Having said that, and knowing that there are several small-press publishers here, I'm curious about something.  Let's say I want one of your products, but this price change really pisses me off. So I go to a pirate and get it and then directly sent you the money. Would you and I be cool? What price would I use?

Just curious...

Quote from: HinterWeltSo, not happy about paying more for the same service. I will be looking into alternatives. I think the PDF market will survive this.

Bill

Me too. As it looks like they are already avidly courting e23, the only worthwhile alternative, options get slimmer and slimmer. Let me know if you think of anything, Bill. I have a lot more pressure on me because pdfs are the backbone of Better Mousetrap - we sell a lot of pdfs. I don't want to increase prices, I don't want to go exclusive, but it looks like I'm being forced to do both just to stay where I am. Leaving the new combined site is no solution - that's 90-95% of my sales. Staying non-exclusive means a somewhat higher price hike, and if e23 goes the combine route, there is no viable reason not to. I have no print distribution outside of Cold Space, and that looks shaky now that GMS has taken over that company. I would desperately like some option that gives me a little flexibility, but things seem to be closing in rather than opening out.

-clash

Quote from: James J SkachHaving said that, and knowing that there are several small-press publishers here, I'm curious about something.  Let's say I want one of your products, but this price change really pisses me off. So I go to a pirate and get it and then directly sent you the money. Would you and I be cool? What price would I use?

Just curious...

I'd send you back your money without a word. I've done it before and I'll do it again. The "pirates" violate my IP. I choose not to sell ransom-ware or charity-ware. If you choose to deal this way, don't look to me for support.

In my personal opinion Copyright law is seriously broken, but until there is a better solution, I can take no other stance. If I do, I lose my Copyright, and my IP becomes public domain. By law. If a Copyright isn't defended, it becomes worthless.

Understand?

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceMe too. As it looks like they are already avidly courting e23, the only worthwhile alternative, options get slimmer and slimmer. Let me know if you think of anything, Bill. I have a lot more pressure on me because pdfs are the backbone of Better Mousetrap - we sell a lot of pdfs. I don't want to increase prices, I don't want to go exclusive, but it looks like I'm being forced to do both just to stay where I am. Leaving the new combined site is no solution - that's 90-95% of my sales. Staying non-exclusive means a somewhat higher price hike, and if e23 goes the combine route, there is no viable reason not to. I have no print distribution outside of Cold Space, and that looks shaky now that GMS has taken over that company. I would desperately like some option that gives me a little flexibility, but things seem to be closing in rather than opening out.

-clash

Alright, you asked for it Clash.

I currently run a system called the M-5 Retailer Managment System from our own servers. I have been thinking about expanding to pick up PDF sales. This would include researching a download solution (thinking Linklock), and payment options (thinking PayPal merchant services to allow CC and Paypal). In the end, I may look into a pre-packaged e-commerce system. In terms of marketing, I already am in place for a lot of in print and online advertising with HinterWelt. Also, I know my way around search engines.

So, the exclusivity clause says "Though shalt not sell on competing sites but selling from your company site is O.K." Just a thought, but HinterWelt becomes an imprint of BMT Games and "we" start selling from our site. I think now would be a time to consider apporaching someone like Phil at RA. He has said as much as "I would bur I do not have the knowledge".

Now, this would not be a big of big site but it could give you an alternative to  OBS.

Big Caveat: I am brainstorming here. This is the first of my thoughts and I have no problems with crits and suggestions.

So, what do you think?

Bill

Quote from: flyingmiceI'd send you back your money without a word. I've done it before and I'll do it again. The "pirates" violate my IP. I choose not to sell ransom-ware or charity-ware. If you choose to deal this way, don't look to me for support.

In my personal opinion Copyright law is seriously broken, but until there is a better solution, I can take no other stance. If I do, I lose my Copyright, and my IP becomes public domain. By law. If a Copyright isn't defended, it becomes worthless.

Understand?

-clash

Word. If you do not defend it, you lose it.

Bill