TheRPGSite

Links here:

https://methodsetmadness.blogspot.com/2022/08/so-we-might-have-d-6e-in-2024-after-all.html

Excerpts (from Reddit):
Is One D&D introducing a new edition of D&D?
It's bigger than that. One D&D will usher in the next generation of D&D with new and more comprehensive versions of the core rulebooks that millions of players have enjoyed for the past decade. The rules will be backward compatible with fifth edition adventures and supplements and offer players and Dungeon Masters new options and opportunities for adventure. The evolution of fifth edition has shown us it's less important to create new editions of the game and more important to grow and expand the game you love with each new product.
And here is a video explaining some changes. As summarized by u/KyfeHeartsword on Reddit:

- PHB races are being completely revised. Orc is being added, new race of animalistic upper plane humanoids called Ardlings, half-elf and half-orc are being replaced by mix and match half-races, dwarves get limited use tremorsense when in contact with stone and optional traits, tiefling subraces are being consolidated into the main tiefling race with ancestral choices (Infernal, Abyssal, etc).
- Backgrounds now determine ASIs instead of race. All backgrounds give multiple options on where you can put your ASIs as they relate to your background choice. Backgrounds presented are built upon the same methodology as the customize and create your own background.
- All backgrounds give you a starting feat, these feats are specifically 1st level feats and all feats will now be grouped by power level.

Sounds like a new edition to me!

Will I play it?

Meh. Probably not.

Might check it our if there is a good SRD. If they want someone to fix weapons, give me a call. ;)

But I'm not buying a whole new set of books (curiously, there is ALREADY anew set out in 2022, that will be made mostly obsolete in a couple of years). I like some of these ideas, but it's making the game more complex. Not my cup of tea. I'm on the OSR train now!

Anyway, let's see how it goes.

EDIT: also, apparently Planescape in 2023!

I am going to stick with 5th edition.  No need to buy a new version and really no reason to give those woke idiots at WOTC more of my money

I just started collecting 5E books, no way in hell I'm going to start over again in such a short amount of time. Plus, if what they started in Tasha's and built upon with Multiverse and Spelljammer, then it's just going to be more woke nonsense and I have zero interest in that. I don't want to play a Nick Jr. approved ttrpg, I wan to play D&D. Plus I find it insulting that WotC bent to the wills of the loud mouths on twitter who invented solutions for problems that simply didn't exist within the hobby.

WotC can suck my dick.

After making Volo and Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes obsolete and after Tasha making optional rules not optional I'll never buy a WOTC product ever again.
So I'll just skip this one like I did with 4th.

One D&D; because, there can be only One.  WOTC will tell everyone what D&D is, because they own it.  D&D belongs to them.

Don't you know they wish they had a do-over, on the OGL?  The existence of the OSR, pisses in their grits every day!!!  I hope they enjoy those grits!!!

Translation:
Sales of core books are starting to slow. Time to roll out a slough of minor changes that are just enough to convince fans to buy an entirely new book rather than work from an eratta sheet.
*queue "chi-ching" sound and dollar signs in the eyes*

Nope. I learned my lesson back with the 3e -> 3.5 shift.

Their slow, steady downward spiral in quality with ever change in personnel has reached the point where that alone would be sufficient for me to ignore 6E, 5.5E, or any other thing they care to call it.

A bridge too far on the woke nonsense would also be alone sufficient for the result.

I'll leave the outcome as an exercise for the reader. :)

Quote from: Eric Diaz on August 18, 2022, 01:30:12 PM
EDIT: also, apparently Planescape in 2023!

Makes sense.  As I've said before, that's how you bury a setting.  Introduce it at the very ass end of a dead edition, with rules for that edition only.  Then you get to tell your marks "Well we just released a setting book for that my good fellow!" despite it being abandonware (along with the prior edition) and you can do that for a decade.  "Planescape?  Why, the last book for that was released just a few years ago!" etc. for a good long while, and you hope the people nattering you about a legacy app go elsewhere.  Or give up and swallow what you're selling them.

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 18, 2022, 03:13:31 PM
One D&D; because, there can be only One.  WOTC will tell everyone what D&D is, because they own it.  D&D belongs to them.

Don't you know they wish they had a do-over, on the OGL?  The existence of the OSR, pisses in their grits every day!!!  I hope they enjoy those grits!!!

They'll also try to claim the "OD&D" moniker as their own.
I'm calling it now.

This might be the "one" to unite ALL editions!

(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png)

Quote from: DeeEmm on August 18, 2022, 03:12:02 PM
after Tasha making optional rules not optional

One of my kids has our copy of Tasha's, so I can't check right now, but this doesn't ring any bells, and Googling around suggests that the stuff labeled optional really is optional and is treated as such by the community at large. What am I missing?

It honestly looks bloody awful.

The races are made more similar to each other - orcs aren't evil and drow are fine with sunlight. Aasimar are now 'Ardlings'. Half-elves and Half-orcs are gone (but you can approximate them by taking elements from each race, or in fact, any race, because now literally everything can breed with anything else).

Everyone has identical stats now because the snowflakes want every race optimised for every class. 

Backgrounds are completely stripped of role-playing elements (which yeah, were basic for us, but I found bond/ideal/flaw were great for introducing new players to role-playing concepts).   

New Dragonlance looks unrecognisable from the 80's version too.

There's no question whatsover they are doubling down on the woke nonsense.

However, they keep saying existing stuff is 'backwards compatible'. They clearly don't want it to be, but they've learned their lesson in the edition wars not to piss off existing customers. However, I'm going to 'press X to doubt' because of how they deep-sixed existing books like Mordenkeinen's/Volo's that didn't fit the narrative. As with any totalitarian regime, watch the unwanted elements slowly disappear, mysteriously to be never seen again.

'One D&D to rule them all' indeed.  Where have I heard that before?   

They know it would be a marketing disaster today, to admit that the new D&D won't have good backwards compatibility.  They have to say that it will, and they have to try to deliver on the promise.  However......

How will characters mix at the same gaming table; if one was created using the original PHB, and the other was created using the latest most woke One D&D PHB + Tasha's content, etc.?

How will the danger hairs react to that?  Me thinks, not too well.

Oh, Wizards of the Woke are fucked either way, and they know it.  They're just smart enough to see how the endless edition wars hurt their bottom line in the past.

'Backwards compatible' will only last as long as it needs to, believe me.

All newly-conquered people are told their new masters will respect their culture and traditions and even grant them some freedoms... until the purges happen. 

When the fuss dies down and players are used to their new overlords, 'backwards compatibility' will meet with an unfortunate accident when they are updating D&D Beyond. Oops!

Considering the hate 5e gets and that people here want to see WotC fail, I'd think the coming of a 6e would make everyone happy...unless they fear WotC might pull out a success.

I'm not going to get too deep into this but...

There is going to be an absolute FIRESTORM of angry people once they formally launch One because just like Volo and Mordenkainen books, these new PHBs, DMGs, and other assorted books are 100% going to be pulled from the Beyond store for purchase and also no longer be available to general subscribers. The only way people are going to retain digital access (legally) to 5e books as One is released is if they outright purchased the permanent access to them instead of just accessing it via the sub.

It's going to get messy, BIG TIME and the rage is going to be unlike any edition warring we've ever seen... WotC is going to cannibalize their most successful RPG product of all time in order to sell new Core Rulebooks for One.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 18, 2022, 05:29:44 PM
Considering the hate 5e gets and that people here want to see WotC fail, I'd think the coming of a 6e would make everyone happy...unless they fear WotC might pull out a success.

If only that were true. That would simplify things considerably.

Instead the vast majority of posters here are unhappy with what has been done to something they actually cared about and don't have a particularly positive desire for the people who damaged what wasn't particularly broken to be successful. That's not just normal, it's reasonable.

Sort of like a sequel to your favorite series of movies being made by a new studio who have no history of respecting or enjoying the things that you have always enjoyed about that series, people are generally wary of and have distaste for a new Sixth Edition because they have no expectation that it will be an improvement over what already exists. Especially given what WOTC has already said about what they want to do with it.

Now – you might not share that concern. But making stuff up you wish were true won't change that.

I don't hate 5e, I just don't care about it (it's not for me).

I don't foresee caring about the next iteration, either, but I'm not rooting for its failure. I'm not opposed to its success, either. I don't have any skin in the game.

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on August 18, 2022, 06:39:48 PM
I don't hate 5e, I just don't care about it (it's not for me).

I don't foresee caring about the next iteration, either, but I'm not rooting for its failure. I'm not opposed to its success, either. I don't have any skin in the game.

I know I don't like 5e and there'snothing will convince me to give it another chancr at this point, so I have nothing to lose if 5e is replaced with something new. I might not like the next version either, but there's always a chance.

Looks like an excellent opportunity for a 2014-style 5e clone based off the 5e SRD.

Here comes the new Boss.
Same as the old Boss.

Hmm...... I wonder if, or rather what flavor of Original 5th Edition Books might be made available as Reprints, via DriveThruRPG?  I wonder how strong the aftermarket either will or won't be, for Used copies of the early printings of the 5E Books?  The Pre-Woke 5E Books.

Quote from: Effete on August 18, 2022, 03:24:14 PM
They'll also try to claim the "OD&D" moniker as their own.
I'm calling it now.

My God, you better be wrong. If they do, it was 100% intentional.

I hereby declare that the acronym for One D&D shall be 1D&D. Anyone continuing to refer to it as OD&D after being corrected is to be treated as an enemy of the hobby.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on August 18, 2022, 01:30:12 PM
- PHB races are being completely revised. Orc is being added, new race of animalistic upper plane humanoids called Ardlings,

More furries ...shocking.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on August 18, 2022, 01:30:12 PM
half-elf and half-orc are being replaced by mix and match half-races,

Actually pretty sensible, given that so many 5e players are homebrewing that already.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on August 18, 2022, 01:30:12 PM
Tiefling subraces are being consolidated into the main tiefling race with ancestral choices (Infernal, Abyssal, etc).

Again, a pretty sensible choice.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on August 18, 2022, 01:30:12 PM
- Backgrounds now determine ASIs instead of race. All backgrounds give multiple options on where you can put your ASIs as they relate to your background choice. Backgrounds presented are built upon the same methodology as the customize and create your own background.

I actually think this is kind of clever. If they're unwilling to tie initial ASIs to race anymore, this is a lot better than just saying "pick any stats you want to increase".

Quote from: Eric Diaz on August 18, 2022, 01:30:12 PM
- All backgrounds give you a starting feat, these feats are specifically 1st level feats and all feats will now be grouped by power level.

It's been a long time since I looked at the 5e Rules, but weren't feats an optional rule (albeit a very commonly used one)? It sounds like this is canonizing them as non-optional, which would in theory be a pretty big change.

Also, the name "1D&D" feels very --for lack of a better word-- coporate to me. It immediately makes me think of the XBox One, and the increasingly obscure names for the models that followed it. Just feels like a name that was chosen because some douche in marketing thought it would be "hip", rather than for communicating what the product was about to the consumer. 

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on August 18, 2022, 07:24:35 PM
I hereby declare that the acronym for One D&D shall be 1D&D. Anyone continuing to refer to it as OD&D after being corrected is to be treated as an enemy of the hobby.

Scuttlebutt says it'll just be "DnD" and the "One" part is just marketing. Users will probably just say 5.5 or 6e, much to WotC's dismay. Considering their fascistic takeover of the brand, I vote for changing the name to Dungeons und Dragons, or DuD.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 18, 2022, 08:04:41 PM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on August 18, 2022, 01:30:12 PM
- All backgrounds give you a starting feat, these feats are specifically 1st level feats and all feats will now be grouped by power level.

It's been a long time since I looked at the 5e Rules, but weren't feats an optional rule (albeit a very commonly used one)? It sounds like this is canonizing them as non-optional, which would in theory be a pretty big change.

The variant Human allowed you to pick a Feat and core Human fell by the wayside after that. It seems on their march to make things as generic and bland as possible, everyone gets a Feat now.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 18, 2022, 06:53:08 PM

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on August 18, 2022, 06:39:48 PM
I don't hate 5e, I just don't care about it (it's not for me).

I don't foresee caring about the next iteration, either, but I'm not rooting for its failure. I'm not opposed to its success, either. I don't have any skin in the game.

I know I don't like 5e and there'snothing will convince me to give it another chancr at this point, so I have nothing to lose if 5e is replaced with something new. I might not like the next version either, but there's always a chance.

You had me until "there's always a chance."  :)

Quote from: Effete on August 18, 2022, 08:09:37 PM

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on August 18, 2022, 07:24:35 PM
I hereby declare that the acronym for One D&D shall be 1D&D. Anyone continuing to refer to it as OD&D after being corrected is to be treated as an enemy of the hobby.

Scuttlebutt says it'll just be "DnD" and the "One" part is just marketing. Users will probably just say 5.5 or 6e, much to WotC's dismay. Considering their fascistic takeover of the brand, I vote for changing the name to Dungeons und Dragons, or DuD.

Nice!

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 18, 2022, 05:29:44 PM
Considering the hate 5e gets and that people here want to see WotC fail, I'd think the coming of a 6e would make everyone happy...unless they fear WotC might pull out a success.

I have a hard time picturing a hypothetical 6th edition producing another 4e-level D&D crash. For one, I don't see them making the same mistake of completely overhauling a wildly successful ruleset. (In fact, this whole 1D&D thing seems to be tailor made to reassure people they aren't doing that). More importantly, the mainstreaming of D&D over that last few years has granted them access to that sector of the geek/fandom market that unironically does just "consume product and then get excited for next product". There's now too many Youtubers and media personalities whose livelihoods rely on staying in WOTC's good graces. They'll shill a new edition hard to their audiences, and the consumers will convert over out of FOMO. Just look at Warhammer 40K. The player-base is all grumbling about the release of a 10th edition, but GW has them so thoroughly bent over a barrel that they'll all buy it anyway.

I think WOTC have already alienated 90+% of the D&D players that they possibly could. I don't have the figures, but here's the impression that I get:

The small subset of people who care deeply enough about D&D --or RPGs generally-- to seriously consider alternatives have already migrated out to OSR games or other systems. That wider audience of casual players that don't know anything other than 5e, is big enough now that they don't really need us anymore. Because D&D is the gateway RPG for almost all new players, they really just have to worry about maintaining that dominant profile in the market, and retaining most of the casual players that are coming in.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 18, 2022, 08:27:28 PM
The small subset of people who care deeply enough about D&D --or RPGs generally-- to seriously consider alternatives have already migrated out to OSR games or other systems. That wider audience of casual players that don't know anything other than 5e, is big enough now that they don't really need us anymore. Because D&D is the gateway RPG for almost all new players, they really just have to worry about maintaining that dominant profile in the market, and retaining most of the casual players that are coming in.

This.

The current 5e library has bloated to the point where it can seem daunting for new prospective customers to buy in. A "new edition," with all the fancy marketing that entails, will draw in those hopefuls, while maintaining a semblance of backward-compatibility will leech from the consooomer diehards that just want something to fawn over.

WotC could have easily released the new races and Backgrounds as optional UA material. They purposefully decided to turn it into a new product. There's no mistake, this was a financial decision. And don't kid yourself... it'll work.

Quote from: Effete on August 18, 2022, 08:09:37 PM
Scuttlebutt says it'll just be "DnD" and the "One" part is just marketing. Users will probably just say 5.5 or 6e, much to WotC's dismay.

I do hope so. I know that a number of us called D&D Essentials, 4.5 -- and called out their promise not to do a 4.5 -- despite their insistence to the contrary. Like the upcoming stuff, it was fully backwards-compatible except for a gaggle of "minor" errata like changing the task DC table again. (To be fair, the Essentials version was actually the least bad of the three versions, and seemed like they had actually bothered to playtest it.)

Worst comes to worst I suppose we can start calling the original edition 0D&D.

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on August 18, 2022, 09:16:19 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 18, 2022, 08:09:37 PM
Scuttlebutt says it'll just be "DnD" and the "One" part is just marketing. Users will probably just say 5.5 or 6e, much to WotC's dismay.

I do hope so. I know that a number of us called D&D Essentials, 4.5 -- and called out their promise not to do a 4.5 -- despite their insistence to the contrary. Like the upcoming stuff, it was fully backwards-compatible except for a gaggle of "minor" errata like changing the task DC table again. (To be fair, the Essentials version was actually the least bad of the three versions, and seemed like they had actually bothered to playtest it.)

I missed out on the entire 4e era. I was so burned out after 3e/3.5 (most of which are now sitting in a box in my closet), I swore off DnD and fantasy gaming in general. People tried to get me to play Pathfinder and I was just like, Nope. I anticipate there will be similar fatigue this time around, too, where people that invested heavily in 5e will just stick to the "pre-update" material or branch off elsewhere.

I don't see this being a financial hit for WotC, though. I'll think it'll pay off for them.

QuoteWorst comes to worst I suppose we can start calling the original edition 0D&D.

Or just 'DnD.' ;)

Quote from: S'mon on August 18, 2022, 06:55:28 PM
Looks like an excellent opportunity for a 2014-style 5e clone based off the 5e SRD.

I would be much more interested in this than D&D 6e.

I see this as Wizards trying to have it both ways.
They can put all the woke stuff into One and leave 5E as is, but I don't think it'll work that way.

Quote from: Ruprecht on August 18, 2022, 10:26:23 PM
I see this as Wizards trying to have it both ways.
They can put all the woke stuff into One and leave 5E as is, but I don't think it'll work that way.

I think they've already put too much into the last several 5E releases.  They just couldn't leave 5E alone.  They had to paint it up with rainbows, celebrate all colors other than white, and celebrate all sexes other than male.  Orcs and Drow are somehow totally different now, because "reasons"....  And they are calling "that", 5E.

In the online resources, and the more recent print runs; it is no longer the same 5E D&D.  They have already changed it.

The only people who should be making DND 6e are us in this site.

If WOTC tries to claim the Classic OD&D acronym, Our OD&D could always be called:

Year Zero D&D. 
1974 D&D. 
White Box D&D. 
True D&D. 
Real D&D.
Original D&D.
Pure D&D.
Early D&D.
Blackmoor D&D.

Quote from: MeganovaStella on August 18, 2022, 11:04:38 PM
The only people who should be making DND 6e are us in this site.

It's a heavy burden, but one I would gladly undertake.

Mainly I expect I'll be arguing with everyone else here for why we need a Weapon vs. AC matrix at least as an optional rule.

It's very unlikely that D&D One will be released with that name.

They've called it a "code name" just like D&D Next was a code name for fifth edition, originally.

Honestly, D&D One is a bad code name, even. Wish they had thought a bit more about that, since it invites so many silly Xbox 360 -> Xbox One type comparisons.

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 18, 2022, 11:24:04 PM
If WOTC tries to claim the Classic OD&D acronym, Our OD&D could always be called:

Year Zero D&D. 
1974 D&D. 
White Box D&D. 
True D&D. 
Real D&D.
Original D&D.
Pure D&D.
Early D&D.
Blackmoor D&D.

Pfft !!!
I ain't writin' full words.

I think OD&D is gonna be safe. According to some insiders, "One D&D" is a marketing term only. More like a slogan than anything else. As someone else pointed out, it's likely something some over-educated suit came up with because they thought it sounded hip and cool. All the kids down at the arcade are gonna love it. Yeah!

Quote from: hoshisabi on August 19, 2022, 12:53:02 AM
It's very unlikely that D&D One will be released with that name.

It will just be D&D, with no edition designation. People will call it that anyway and they will realize that if they haven't already. You kill edition wars by killing the designation.

I like how they are going out of their way to proclaim compatibility without any details. They got plenty of product out there on shelves and nobody wants that to sit or get returned or sales drop like a stone because people are 'waiting' for the next edition.

I can't say I can find anything positive on the content changes in the announcements. What they are planning on doing for backgrounds / feats sounds like making 5e less modular and actually more complicated for new players. Some of the details on feats also also struck me as a bit 4e-like as well.

The digital side will be interesting and take years to unfold.

Tying ASI to background is a really  terrible idea, it means eg every Fighter will be a Soldier. No one will play a Noble Fighter. Wonder how long it will take for them to spot this.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 18, 2022, 08:27:28 PM
The small subset of people who care deeply enough about D&D --or RPGs generally-- to seriously consider alternatives have already migrated out to OSR games or other systems. That wider audience of casual players that don't know anything other than 5e, is big enough now that they don't really need us anymore. Because D&D is the gateway RPG for almost all new players, they really just have to worry about maintaining that dominant profile in the market, and retaining most of the casual players that are coming in.

Yeah, this. Younger Boomers and older Gen-X are a dying breed. And the endless edition wars made us splintered and disunited, so we're all huddling in our own little corners of the internet. 

Meanwhile the kids are caught in a weird place where they barely know that the 20th century existed, yet everything around them is so soulless and hollow that they feel a hunger for a nostalgia they never had.

And that nostalgia is repackaged for them to consume in a way that makes it completely unrecognisable. It's the gaming equivalent of listening to Harry Styles covers of Led Zeppelin or the Doors.   

(And I'm in no way opposed to new things in RPGs, I thought 5E was kind of bland but it was okay as a 'greatest hits' edition and its fine to play. What destroyed things was how everything became so heavily politicised around 2016. After we spent the 80's and 90's with the religious Right trying to destroy the hobby, we somehow fell asleep on duty and allowed the hobby to be completely consumed, body and soul, by the Left). 

What if One D&D actually means One D&D to WotC where they actively and aggressively shut down sites like dmsgiild or drive thru rpg from printing older material and forcing everyone who wants to play D&D to play the woke dogshit version? They could also all but kill the ogl going forward.

Quote from: Continental on August 19, 2022, 05:31:52 AM
Yeah, this. Younger Boomers and older Gen-X are a dying breed. And the endless edition wars made us splintered and disunited....

Well said. The entire thing, not just the quoted bit above.

Quote from: Effete on August 18, 2022, 08:17:39 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 18, 2022, 08:04:41 PM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on August 18, 2022, 01:30:12 PM
- All backgrounds give you a starting feat, these feats are specifically 1st level feats and all feats will now be grouped by power level.

It's been a long time since I looked at the 5e Rules, but weren't feats an optional rule (albeit a very commonly used one)? It sounds like this is canonizing them as non-optional, which would in theory be a pretty big change.

The variant Human allowed you to pick a Feat and core Human fell by the wayside after that. It seems on their march to make things as generic and bland as possible, everyone gets a Feat now.

I don't have an issue with this, TBH. Specially not in 5e, where most feats are viable and there are no feat chains. Most people who hate feats are OSR anyways. And it's very easy to simply declare "All feats in my campaign are ASIs".

My biggest issue with this upcoming edition is that I hate WotC and they're officially homogenizing races even more now in the name of wokeness and the idiotic belief that racial ability score modifiers are "biological essentialism"* and therefore fundamentally racist.

The idea of tying AISs to background is not horrible (at least not in principle, in practice it'll lead to everyone always picking the most optimal background for their class, as S'mon points out), but it smacks of woke ideology and the belief that nurture trumps nature, and it's strictly your background, not your biology, that determines your inclinations. They might as well just give everyone one ASIs of choice and leave it at that. Then make 20 the hard cap, regardless of ASIs if they find biological essentialism so offensive.

*Which they kinda are, but who gives a fuck? Biology doesn't care about your feelings and D&D races are distinct enough to have different inclinations.

Quote from: Monero on August 19, 2022, 08:44:45 AM
What if One D&D actually means One D&D to WotC where they actively and aggressively shut down sites like dmsgiild or drive thru rpg from printing older material and forcing everyone who wants to play D&D to play the woke dogshit version? They could also all but kill the ogl going forward.

I don't think they can do much with the OGL since there's no provision for revoking it except for noncompliance. And the OGL was always more of a legal convenience than a necessity since you can't copyright actual game mechanics.

Quote from: Monero on August 19, 2022, 08:44:45 AM
What if One D&D actually means One D&D to WotC where they actively and aggressively shut down sites like dmsgiild or drive thru rpg from printing older material and forcing everyone who wants to play D&D to play the woke dogshit version? They could also all but kill the ogl going forward.

So basically, this...

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 19, 2022, 08:09:52 AM

"One D&D to rule them all.
One D&D to find them.
One D&D to bring them all,
and in the Wokeness bind them."

Yes, I can see this is where "One" D&D is headed. Deep down this is what WotC wants even if they won't come out and admit it.

Even if they do nothing to force other options to go away, time will likely enshrine One D&D as the market leader. Then add two years of updates and 5E compatibility is gone and they can start to censor/republish/update 5E products and hope to recapture sales.

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on August 19, 2022, 08:48:13 AM

Quote from: Monero on August 19, 2022, 08:44:45 AM
What if One D&D actually means One D&D to WotC where they actively and aggressively shut down sites like dmsgiild or drive thru rpg from printing older material and forcing everyone who wants to play D&D to play the woke dogshit version? They could also all but kill the ogl going forward.

I don't think they can do much with the OGL since there's no provision for revoking it except for noncompliance. And the OGL was always more of a legal convenience than a necessity since you can't copyright actual game mechanics.

Legally they can't shut it all down now. But they can try to steer as many to their current edition's direction as they can, and try to convince everyone that only they have the "official" version of the "One True Game",

Quote from: Continental on August 19, 2022, 05:31:52 AM
Yeah, this. Younger Boomers and older Gen-X are a dying breed. And the endless edition wars made us splintered and disunited, so we're all huddling in our own little corners of the internet. 

Meanwhile the kids are caught in a weird place where they barely know that the 20th century existed, yet everything around them is so soulless and hollow that they feel a hunger for a nostalgia they never had.

And that nostalgia is repackaged for them to consume in a way that makes it completely unrecognizable. It's the gaming equivalent of listening to Harry Styles covers of Led Zeppelin or the Doors.   

As far as I know, it was mostly millennials that deserted D&D for Pathfinder in the 4th edition days, so we probably deserve some of the "credit".

The music analogy is fun, though. What would third edition be, a Led Zeppelin cover done by Godsmack? Maybe LOTFP is a cover done by Darkthrone, and DCC is one done Fank Zappa?

Quote from: Monero on August 19, 2022, 08:44:45 AM
What if One D&D actually means One D&D to WotC where they actively and aggressively shut down sites like dmsgiild or drive thru rpg from printing older material and forcing everyone who wants to play D&D to play the woke dogshit version? They could also all but kill the ogl going forward.

The only thing they can do with the OGL is not add future content to their SRDs. Everything that's presently out is "in the wild" and can't be brought back under the umbrella of "protected content."

I will go on the record and say that WotC has zero desire to use One D&D like the One Ring. It is funny, and they have certainly earned any and all ridicule, but they will not be using this new release to shut down sites or consolidate past products.

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on August 18, 2022, 11:59:41 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on August 18, 2022, 11:04:38 PM
The only people who should be making DND 6e are us in this site.

It's a heavy burden, but one I would gladly undertake.

Mainly I expect I'll be arguing with everyone else here for why we need a Weapon vs. AC matrix at least as an optional rule.

I do wonder how I'd go about writing a 6th edition, if I actually wanted it to be succeed.

Let's be real: a full on retroclone would not go over well with D&D's current market. I think you're on to something though, in that the way to go would be to supe up the DM's guide with tons of optional rules. Outside of the politics and culture around it (which you couldn't fix just in the core rulebooks), 5e's biggest problems seem to be with what you might call "misplaced complexity". Too many class permutations and too much action economy, and not enough world/exploration/dungeoneering rules. It honestly blows my mind that D&D still doesn't have chase rules in the PHB.

I forget who originally made the suggestion, but at this point I think WOTC would be smart to split D&D off into Basic and Advanced lines again. Then they could satisfy both the people who just want to "tell stories" and the people who want the whole immersive sim element, and probably sell twice as many books. Hell, they could probably split the Advanced line off into separate low and high-fantasy lines and sell even more.

I don't really understand why WOTC is so concerned with making D&D a monolith, when every other major company with a successful ruleset (Chaosium, Paizo, Pinnacle, Modiphius etc.) instead focuses on making multiple games with similar rules. If they had multiple game lines, they wouldn't have to keep changing the rules of D&D to sell new products.

Shit WOTC, you already own the rights. Make a designated MTG RPG based on the 5e ruleset, and you'll probably be printing money off of it for a decade....

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that going down the SWADE/GURPS route of making D&D the basis of a generic ruleset for a bunch of licensed settings would be a huge money-maker for them. They have the market profile, and Hasbro has the money to outbid everyone else for licenses. I don't think it would be a good game, and I'm not hoping they do it, but I bet it'd work.

Quote from: FingerRod on August 19, 2022, 10:15:06 AM
I will go on the record and say that WotC has zero desire to use One D&D like the One Ring. It is funny, and they have certainly earned any and all ridicule, but they will not be using this new release to shut down sites or consolidate past products.

No, but they will update D&D Beyond's character builder so it only uses 1D&D material rather than 5e, which will be annoying. They may go further with aggressive destructive 'editing' of purchased materials; we already have precedent for this in how they have bowdlerized already purchased online versions of old 5e books.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 19, 2022, 10:30:31 AM
I don't really understand why WOTC is so concerned with making D&D a monolith, when every other major company with a successful ruleset (Chaosium, Paizo, Pinnacle, Modiphius etc.) instead focuses on making multiple games with similar rules. If they had multiple game lines, they wouldn't have to keep changing the rules of D&D to sell new products.

The problem with that is folks that like one ruleset may not buy the stuff from the other rulesets,  and Wizards doesn't want to leave a dime unclaimed so they can't even consider that option.

From what I understand they have a 'rule' that any product must be available to all classes and everything. If true this was a foolish call. They could easily have said Forgotten Realms uses all but no Gnomes or Warlocks and a subset of the monsters in Eberonn (or something like that, I don't actually know squat about Ebberon) and created campaigns that 'felt' different even though they kept the same core rules.

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 19, 2022, 08:09:52 AM

"One D&D to rule them all.
One D&D to find them.
One D&D to bring them all,
and in the Wokeness bind them."

Well played, and well said.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 19, 2022, 10:30:31 AM

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on August 18, 2022, 11:59:41 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on August 18, 2022, 11:04:38 PM
The only people who should be making DND 6e are us in this site.

It's a heavy burden, but one I would gladly undertake.

Mainly I expect I'll be arguing with everyone else here for why we need a Weapon vs. AC matrix at least as an optional rule.

I don't really understand why WOTC is so concerned with making D&D a monolith, when every other major company with a successful ruleset (Chaosium, Paizo, Pinnacle, Modiphius etc.) instead focuses on making multiple games with similar rules. If they had multiple game lines, they wouldn't have to keep changing the rules of D&D to sell new products.

My guess is brand recognition. There are a lot of people for whom D&D is completly synonymous with role play games, even to the extent that it bleeds into completly different table top fantasy gaming. (Play Warhammer and you are bound to get a relative or friend asking "Is that D&D?").

It is difficult to overstate how massive D&D is compared to the next largest TTRPG.

But the thing is that D&D isn't objectively a better product than its competitors. It is a competent game, has a lot of marketing behind it and a powerful first mover advantage. But its greatest asset is the brand recognition of the game, (it's not even particularly recognition of the company itself).

I think the argument/strategy WotC is following is that making multiple lines of games will ultimately dilute the brand and allow competitors to eat into their share.

Also in terms of organisation, creative direction and governance having one brand is much easier to manage. If the tone of one game is super woke then it becomes awkward if another game line hasn't gone full mental.

Quote from: Ruprecht on August 19, 2022, 11:08:51 AM
The problem with that is folks that like one ruleset may not buy the stuff from the other rulesets,  and Wizards doesn't want to leave a dime unclaimed so they can't even consider that option.

From what I understand they have a 'rule' that any product must be available to all classes and everything. If true this was a foolish call. They could easily have said Forgotten Realms uses all but no Gnomes or Warlocks and a subset of the monsters in Eberonn (or something like that, I don't actually know squat about Ebberon) and created campaigns that 'felt' different even though they kept the same core rules.

This is also a very good point.

Quote from: Monero on August 19, 2022, 08:44:45 AM
What if One D&D actually means One D&D to WotC where they actively and aggressively shut down sites like dmsgiild or drive thru rpg from printing older material and forcing everyone who wants to play D&D to play the woke dogshit version? They could also all but kill the ogl going forward.

Not necessarily. They can make plenty of money through those venues and every sale provides ample opportunity to upsell people to their newest product.

Quote from: Monero on August 19, 2022, 08:44:45 AM
What if One D&D actually means One D&D to WotC where they actively and aggressively shut down sites like dmsgiild or drive thru rpg from printing older material and forcing everyone who wants to play D&D to play the woke dogshit version? They could also all but kill the ogl going forward.

I can see this exact thing happening for sure. WotC saying you MUST play DnD the "correct and official" way. With easy access to other editions removed. I have a collection of old physical books. Younger gamers getting into the hobby for the first time might not. And if it's harder to even acquire old editions that's going to incentivize using the app more than playing the old editions.

Young people wanting everything to go digital, will be a big factor in this.  What young person wants to drag around a bunch of books, when they can access everything on their supercomputer phone?

I love having hard copies in print, myself.  I remember when many popular computer software packages, first jumped to a subscription-only model.  I stayed with the older versions that I owned, as long as hardware and operating systems were still compatible.  Then, I stopped owning a home computer, because of the software licensing b.s.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 19, 2022, 10:30:31 AM

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on August 18, 2022, 11:59:41 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on August 18, 2022, 11:04:38 PM
The only people who should be making DND 6e are us in this site.

It's a heavy burden, but one I would gladly undertake.

Mainly I expect I'll be arguing with everyone else here for why we need a Weapon vs. AC matrix at least as an optional rule.

I do wonder how I'd go about writing a 6th edition, if I actually wanted it to be succeed.

Let's be real: a full on retroclone would not go over well with D&D's current market. I think you're on to something though, in that the way to go would be to supe up the DM's guide with tons of optional rules. Outside of the politics and culture around it (which you couldn't fix just in the core rulebooks), 5e's biggest problems seem to be with what you might call "misplaced complexity". Too many class permutations and too much action economy, and not enough world/exploration/dungeoneering rules. It honestly blows my mind that D&D still doesn't have chase rules in the PHB.

I forget who originally made the suggestion, but at this point I think WOTC would be smart to split D&D off into Basic and Advanced lines again. Then they could satisfy both the people who just want to "tell stories" and the people who want the whole immersive sim element, and probably sell twice as many books. Hell, they could probably split the Advanced line off into separate low and high-fantasy lines and sell even more.

I don't really understand why WOTC is so concerned with making D&D a monolith, when every other major company with a successful ruleset (Chaosium, Paizo, Pinnacle, Modiphius etc.) instead focuses on making multiple games with similar rules. If they had multiple game lines, they wouldn't have to keep changing the rules of D&D to sell new products.

Shit WOTC, you already own the rights. Make a designated MTG RPG based on the 5e ruleset, and you'll probably be printing money off of it for a decade....

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that going down the SWADE/GURPS route of making D&D the basis of a generic ruleset for a bunch of licensed settings would be a huge money-maker for them. They have the market profile, and Hasbro has the money to outbid everyone else for licenses. I don't think it would be a good game, and I'm not hoping they do it, but I bet it'd work.

Pretty much agree about "misplaced complexity". There's too many classes and subclasses, with too many fiddly class features that massively expand the complexity of an otherwise simple AF core engine. And they don't even have to cut out out all the options, they just need to make them more streamlined, going back to the four core classes as a base (Warrior, Rogue, Priest and Wizard), then leave the endless permutations of different "classes" to subclasses instead.

The core "Basic" rules could focus on the four classes, with a few subclasses each (baseline rangers and paladins for warriors, druids and clerics for priests, etc.), then more expanded options with more subclasses covering more specialized roles (hunters, beast masters, avengers, etc) could be handled through other products, including settings and/or separate game lines that take the basic core rules and custom fit it to their genre and world details.

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 18, 2022, 03:13:31 PM
Don't you know they wish they had a do-over, on the OGL?  The existence of the OSR, pisses in their grits every day!!!  I hope they enjoy those grits!!!

I've always said we should all reserve a place of honor in the RPG pantheon for Ryan Dancey. He's definitely going to be welcomed to the Great Gygax Table in the Sky when the time comes.

Ok, now that I've had time to process this a little more; I think this is simply their announcement that D&D is going to transition to a digital gaming environment in a much bigger way.  They don't see the future of printed hardcovers being as big of a money maker for them, as the online gaming environment.  They can also make rules changes that are implemented throughout the entire player base, much more easily and more universally; if they do so via the online gaming experience platform.

WOTC is going to control how people play D&D; by controlling what D&D is, in the online gaming environment.  If they make it look great; people will play it in mass, regardless.

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 19, 2022, 03:37:07 PM
Ok, now that I've had time to process this a little more; I think this is simply their announcement that D&D is going to transition to a digital gaming environment in a much bigger way.  They don't see the future of printed hardcovers being as big of a money maker for them, as the online gaming environment.  They can also make rules changes that are implemented throughout the entire player base, much more easily and more universally; if they do so via the online gaming experience platform.

WOTC is going to control how people play D&D; by controlling what D&D is, in the online gaming environment.  If they make it look great; people will play it in mass, regardless.

In my experience real life general gaming clubs can be a catalyst for players to move on from D&D to other rpgs or at least broaden their gaming horizons. So it would make sense for a company that was able to narrow the field.

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 19, 2022, 03:37:07 PM
Ok, now that I've had time to process this a little more; I think this is simply their announcement that D&D is going to transition to a digital gaming environment in a much bigger way.  They don't see the future of printed hardcovers being as big of a money maker for them, as the online gaming environment.  They can also make rules changes that are implemented throughout the entire player base, much more easily and more universally; if they do so via the online gaming experience platform.

WOTC is going to control how people play D&D; by controlling what D&D is, in the online gaming environment.  If they make it look great; people will play it in mass, regardless.

Yup. And then roll the welcome mat for the subscription based model, where no one owns anything and they'll be happy. ;)

Why induce extra production costs making printed materials their primary source of profit, when they can make you pay a subscription cost for the privilege of accessing material that you don't own from a cloud? FOREVER!!!

People have been doing this with stuff like Adobe and Microsoft products for years now. Streaming services arguably as well, since we don't own all those DVDs/Bluerays either (though, I see the value more in those, since there's hundreds of them and it's too inconvenient to purchase all those disks separately to never see more than a tiny fraction more than once). I've even heard talk of maybe even making cars a subscription model. Video games as well. Why sell PDFs when they can gate access behind a cloud?

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 19, 2022, 04:10:54 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 19, 2022, 03:37:07 PM
Ok, now that I've had time to process this a little more; I think this is simply their announcement that D&D is going to transition to a digital gaming environment in a much bigger way.  They don't see the future of printed hardcovers being as big of a money maker for them, as the online gaming environment.  They can also make rules changes that are implemented throughout the entire player base, much more easily and more universally; if they do so via the online gaming experience platform.

WOTC is going to control how people play D&D; by controlling what D&D is, in the online gaming environment.  If they make it look great; people will play it in mass, regardless.

Yup. And then roll the welcome mat for the subscription based model, where no one owns anything and they'll be happy. ;)

Why induce extra production costs making printed materials their primary source of profit, when they can make you pay a subscription cost for the privilege of accessing material that you don't own from a cloud? FOREVER!!!

People have been doing this with stuff like Adobe and Microsoft products for years now. Streaming services arguably as well, since we don't own all those DVDs/Bluerays either (though, I see the value more in those, since there's hundreds of them and it's too inconvenient to purchase all those disks separately to never see more than a tiny fraction more than once). I've even heard talk of maybe even making cars a subscription model. Video games as well. Why sell PDFs when they can gate access behind a cloud?

That is very depressing. And probably quite accurate. The only mitigating factor I can think of is that maybe just maybe there are enough hobbyists who actually like having a real physical book collection.

And also considering the politics of WotC maybe it's not so bad its contained behind a cloud.

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 19, 2022, 03:37:07 PM...They don't see the future of printed hardcovers being as big of a money maker for them, as the online gaming environment.  They can also make rules changes that are implemented throughout the entire player base, much more easily and more universally; if they do so via the online gaming experience platform.

WOTC is going to control how people play D&D; by controlling what D&D is, in the online gaming environment.  If they make it look great; people will play it in mass, regardless.

This is A Terrible idea.
The charm and fun of D&D and other role playing games is that they ARE played around a table with books.

To Hell with 'smart'  phones, laptops, online gaming, and all of the 'streaming' BS.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 19, 2022, 03:37:07 PM
Ok, now that I've had time to process this a little more; I think this is simply their announcement that D&D is going to transition to a digital gaming environment in a much bigger way.

Again? Maybe they'll get it right this time, but WotC doesn't have a great track record with efforts in that direction.

Quote from: Koltar on August 19, 2022, 04:25:52 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 19, 2022, 03:37:07 PM...They don't see the future of printed hardcovers being as big of a money maker for them, as the online gaming environment.  They can also make rules changes that are implemented throughout the entire player base, much more easily and more universally; if they do so via the online gaming experience platform.

WOTC is going to control how people play D&D; by controlling what D&D is, in the online gaming environment.  If they make it look great; people will play it in mass, regardless.

This is A Terrible idea.
The charm and fun of D&D and other role playing games is that they ARE played around a table with books.

To Hell with 'smart'  phones, laptops, online gaming, and all of the 'streaming' BS.

- Ed C.

Agreed.

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 19, 2022, 04:51:28 PM

Quote from: Koltar on August 19, 2022, 04:25:52 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 19, 2022, 03:37:07 PM...They don't see the future of printed hardcovers being as big of a money maker for them, as the online gaming environment.  They can also make rules changes that are implemented throughout the entire player base, much more easily and more universally; if they do so via the online gaming experience platform.
WOTC is going to control how people play D&D; by controlling what D&D is, in the online gaming environment.  If they make it look great; people will play it in mass, regardless.

This is A Terrible idea.
The charm and fun of D&D and other role playing games is that they ARE played around a table with books.
To Hell with 'smart'  phones, laptops, online gaming, and all of the 'streaming' BS.
- Ed C.

Agreed.

Yeah, but this isn't being made for Boomers in their 60's, Gen-Xers in our 50's, or older Millennials in their 40's.  They'll be very happy to be rid of us, in fact.

This is like musicians changing their style dramatically to shake off their previous audience and win over a new one. 

Quote from: Koltar on August 19, 2022, 04:25:52 PM
This is A Terrible idea.
The charm and fun of D&D and other role playing games is that they ARE played around a table with books.

To Hell with 'smart'  phones, laptops, online gaming, and all of the 'streaming' BS.

- Ed C.

Hear, hear. No screens at the table should be the norm, screens the exception. Focus has been a major issue for myself and others every time we thought we could ignore this rule.

I honestly don't care about D&D anymore. I keep tabs on it for sake of keeping abreast of the industry, but I basically view it as an obsolete fossil of a game which is miles behind indie games, and the Woke is just the cherry on the top of the sewage sandwich. I'll play it if I know there's a good GM who positively insists on playing D&D, but I have no intention of buying any WotC books or having a D&D specific group.

As to screens at the game table; I don't always ban smartphones because I use them as a feedback mechanism. Checking your phone means the game isn't engrossing, so there's something to be learned on my end. But no screens is, in fact, the ideal.

Screens?

At the table?
If you mean normal GM Screens to 'hide' his or her outline notes and dice rolls - then hell Yes a GM Screen should be at the table.

If you mean 'screens' as in tech devices - then HELL No ! - ban them all to some other room, or even another village a state or province away from the table.

- Ed C.

I only play around a table (no online play, in my case), and I strongly prefer no electronic devices/screens, either. I experimented with using a laptop or tablet as the GM, but found that it was more trouble than it was worth. Phones at the table is just inviting interruption, in my opinion.

Okay,....OKAY, - I have thought of ONE exception I would make to my rule and I have in the past.

IF one of my players is half a couple and they are worried about their non player spouse or their spouse might call me house wondering when the game session will be over.

Years ago, one of my players was interrupted by her husband calling her. I said I could wrap up the game situation if he gave me 20 to 30 more minutes. He thought that was fair and so did his wife (the player). Those days we usually ended things around 9 :00 pm, but things got overly interested - so  needed 20 to 30 more minutes for a resolution or cliffhanger moment.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Fheredin on August 19, 2022, 07:04:18 PM
As to screens at the game table; I don't always ban smartphones because I use them as a feedback mechanism. Checking your phone means the game isn't engrossing, so there's something to be learned on my end. But no screens is, in fact, the ideal.

I think this would depend on the players. I know for myself checking screens are more of a barrier to getting into the game than a symptom of not getting into it.

Quote from: Koltar on August 19, 2022, 10:26:44 PM
Okay,....OKAY, - I have thought of ONE exception I would make to my rule and I have in the past.

IF one of my players is half a couple and they are worried about their non player spouse or their spouse might call me house wondering when the game session will be over.

Years ago, one of my players was interrupted by her husband calling her. I said I could wrap up the game situation if he gave me 20 to 30 more minutes. He thought that was fair and so did his wife (the player). Those days we usually ended things around 9 :00 pm, but things got overly interested - so  needed 20 to 30 more minutes for a resolution or cliffhanger moment.

- Ed C.

I can't say I have too much patience for needy spouses disrupting the game.

RE: Screens at the table or electronic/online play.

Seriously, as long as people are using them strictly as play aids, I don't give a fuck. My issue is when people are constantly distracted, but I'm not a Luddite and have worked around computers so long (including some technical writing work) I type faster and I'm more used to and comfortable keeping written documents on an electronic format than paper. I've DMed with an open laptop with zero problems and more efficiently than shifting through a bunch of paper notes.

I played a game as a player recently and basically had my character written down in a note app in my phone. I also had a printed character sheet provided by the guy who's house we were playing at, but the notes in my phone where more complete and included a bunch of details that wouldn't even fit in my character sheet. So I constantly referenced my phone, specially when looking up my spells, which I had written in a concise format for quick access during play. Our DM also used their phone to make secret rolls for enemies using an app, with zero problems.

I'll also take what I can get, if online play is the only thing available. My main issue with the move to electronic formats is the trend for some (usually larger) companies gating access behind a subscription model, which is really a trick to scam people into paying forever to rent a product they will never own rather than let them purchase it outright. Then make them dependent on continued "service" that's really not a service, but a withheld product.

Well, I think with the Covid shutting us in and people still trying to get their game on many had to resort to online gaming.  And with advances in conference technology (Zoom, Discord, insert your favorite here) it has all been enabled.  Plus, the nostalgia of seeing it on Stranger Things probably got more than a few "to get the band back together" only now they're all in different time zones. 

Enter Roll20 (and a slew of other online resources I can't name because I'm not interested) and that's how a lot of people game. 

Now mix in that they were clearly ruining their latest incarnation of D&D (5e) with additional books that make the "I want something shiny at every level because I got participation trophies" crowd and it was obvious something had to give.

So here comes a new version, only we're really not calling it that so a new "Pathfinder" can't kick our ass again, only it will exclusively be online assets, and we'll streamline it with Roll20, or someone, because we still have people on staff dreaming of what might have been with 4th edition, and everything we generate thenceforth will be fully online compatible with our official partners who also pay us for the privilege of hosting our game.

It's a shrewd marketing ploy and you can 100% control the Wokeometer by just magically disappearing whatever is the next thing people find offensive as it's merely a PDF edit.  The subscription services is where the money is at, no denying it, so they'll make full exploit of it.

I'll just be over here with my 1st edition books and Castles & Crusades.  The kids that don't mind any of that can play their game and I'll play mine.

Quote from: Brooding Paladin on August 20, 2022, 02:10:21 PM
Well, I think with the Covid shutting us in and people still trying to get their game on many had to resort to online gaming.  And with advances in conference technology (Zoom, Discord, insert your favorite here) it has all been enabled.  Plus, the nostalgia of seeing it on Stranger Things probably got more than a few "to get the band back together" only now they're all in different time zones. 

Enter Roll20 (and a slew of other online resources I can't name because I'm not interested) and that's how a lot of people game. 

Now mix in that they were clearly ruining their latest incarnation of D&D (5e) with additional books that make the "I want something shiny at every level because I got participation trophies" crowd and it was obvious something had to give.

So here comes a new version, only we're really not calling it that so a new "Pathfinder" can't kick our ass again, only it will exclusively be online assets, and we'll streamline it with Roll20, or someone, because we still have people on staff dreaming of what might have been with 4th edition, and everything we generate thenceforth will be fully online compatible with our official partners who also pay us for the privilege of hosting our game.

It's a shrewd marketing ploy and you can 100% control the Wokeometer by just magically disappearing whatever is the next thing people find offensive as it's merely a PDF edit.  The subscription services is where the money is at, no denying it, so they'll make full exploit of it.

I'll just be over here with my 1st edition books and Castles & Crusades.  The kids that don't mind any of that can play their game and I'll play mine.

When I jumped back into the hobby nearly 6 years ago; I knew that I wanted hardcovers of various editions, to build a little library.  While hardcovers were still available, that is.  I had a hunch I would see the day when hardcovers weren't as easy to get.  Time will tell.