Quote from: Monero on August 19, 2022, 08:44:45 AM
What if One D&D actually means One D&D to WotC where they actively and aggressively shut down sites like dmsgiild or drive thru rpg from printing older material and forcing everyone who wants to play D&D to play the woke dogshit version? They could also all but kill the ogl going forward.

I can see this exact thing happening for sure. WotC saying you MUST play DnD the "correct and official" way. With easy access to other editions removed. I have a collection of old physical books. Younger gamers getting into the hobby for the first time might not. And if it's harder to even acquire old editions that's going to incentivize using the app more than playing the old editions.

Young people wanting everything to go digital, will be a big factor in this.  What young person wants to drag around a bunch of books, when they can access everything on their supercomputer phone?

I love having hard copies in print, myself.  I remember when many popular computer software packages, first jumped to a subscription-only model.  I stayed with the older versions that I owned, as long as hardware and operating systems were still compatible.  Then, I stopped owning a home computer, because of the software licensing b.s.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 19, 2022, 10:30:31 AM

Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on August 18, 2022, 11:59:41 PM

Quote from: MeganovaStella on August 18, 2022, 11:04:38 PM
The only people who should be making DND 6e are us in this site.

It's a heavy burden, but one I would gladly undertake.

Mainly I expect I'll be arguing with everyone else here for why we need a Weapon vs. AC matrix at least as an optional rule.

I do wonder how I'd go about writing a 6th edition, if I actually wanted it to be succeed.

Let's be real: a full on retroclone would not go over well with D&D's current market. I think you're on to something though, in that the way to go would be to supe up the DM's guide with tons of optional rules. Outside of the politics and culture around it (which you couldn't fix just in the core rulebooks), 5e's biggest problems seem to be with what you might call "misplaced complexity". Too many class permutations and too much action economy, and not enough world/exploration/dungeoneering rules. It honestly blows my mind that D&D still doesn't have chase rules in the PHB.

I forget who originally made the suggestion, but at this point I think WOTC would be smart to split D&D off into Basic and Advanced lines again. Then they could satisfy both the people who just want to "tell stories" and the people who want the whole immersive sim element, and probably sell twice as many books. Hell, they could probably split the Advanced line off into separate low and high-fantasy lines and sell even more.

I don't really understand why WOTC is so concerned with making D&D a monolith, when every other major company with a successful ruleset (Chaosium, Paizo, Pinnacle, Modiphius etc.) instead focuses on making multiple games with similar rules. If they had multiple game lines, they wouldn't have to keep changing the rules of D&D to sell new products.

Shit WOTC, you already own the rights. Make a designated MTG RPG based on the 5e ruleset, and you'll probably be printing money off of it for a decade....

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that going down the SWADE/GURPS route of making D&D the basis of a generic ruleset for a bunch of licensed settings would be a huge money-maker for them. They have the market profile, and Hasbro has the money to outbid everyone else for licenses. I don't think it would be a good game, and I'm not hoping they do it, but I bet it'd work.

Pretty much agree about "misplaced complexity". There's too many classes and subclasses, with too many fiddly class features that massively expand the complexity of an otherwise simple AF core engine. And they don't even have to cut out out all the options, they just need to make them more streamlined, going back to the four core classes as a base (Warrior, Rogue, Priest and Wizard), then leave the endless permutations of different "classes" to subclasses instead.

The core "Basic" rules could focus on the four classes, with a few subclasses each (baseline rangers and paladins for warriors, druids and clerics for priests, etc.), then more expanded options with more subclasses covering more specialized roles (hunters, beast masters, avengers, etc) could be handled through other products, including settings and/or separate game lines that take the basic core rules and custom fit it to their genre and world details.

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 18, 2022, 03:13:31 PM
Don't you know they wish they had a do-over, on the OGL?  The existence of the OSR, pisses in their grits every day!!!  I hope they enjoy those grits!!!

I've always said we should all reserve a place of honor in the RPG pantheon for Ryan Dancey. He's definitely going to be welcomed to the Great Gygax Table in the Sky when the time comes.

Ok, now that I've had time to process this a little more; I think this is simply their announcement that D&D is going to transition to a digital gaming environment in a much bigger way.  They don't see the future of printed hardcovers being as big of a money maker for them, as the online gaming environment.  They can also make rules changes that are implemented throughout the entire player base, much more easily and more universally; if they do so via the online gaming experience platform.

WOTC is going to control how people play D&D; by controlling what D&D is, in the online gaming environment.  If they make it look great; people will play it in mass, regardless.

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 19, 2022, 03:37:07 PM
Ok, now that I've had time to process this a little more; I think this is simply their announcement that D&D is going to transition to a digital gaming environment in a much bigger way.  They don't see the future of printed hardcovers being as big of a money maker for them, as the online gaming environment.  They can also make rules changes that are implemented throughout the entire player base, much more easily and more universally; if they do so via the online gaming experience platform.

WOTC is going to control how people play D&D; by controlling what D&D is, in the online gaming environment.  If they make it look great; people will play it in mass, regardless.

In my experience real life general gaming clubs can be a catalyst for players to move on from D&D to other rpgs or at least broaden their gaming horizons. So it would make sense for a company that was able to narrow the field.

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 19, 2022, 03:37:07 PM
Ok, now that I've had time to process this a little more; I think this is simply their announcement that D&D is going to transition to a digital gaming environment in a much bigger way.  They don't see the future of printed hardcovers being as big of a money maker for them, as the online gaming environment.  They can also make rules changes that are implemented throughout the entire player base, much more easily and more universally; if they do so via the online gaming experience platform.

WOTC is going to control how people play D&D; by controlling what D&D is, in the online gaming environment.  If they make it look great; people will play it in mass, regardless.

Yup. And then roll the welcome mat for the subscription based model, where no one owns anything and they'll be happy.

Why induce extra production costs making printed materials their primary source of profit, when they can make you pay a subscription cost for the privilege of accessing material that you don't own from a cloud? FOREVER!!!

People have been doing this with stuff like Adobe and Microsoft products for years now. Streaming services arguably as well, since we don't own all those DVDs/Bluerays either (though, I see the value more in those, since there's hundreds of them and it's too inconvenient to purchase all those disks separately to never see more than a tiny fraction more than once). I've even heard talk of maybe even making cars a subscription model. Video games as well. Why sell PDFs when they can gate access behind a cloud?

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 19, 2022, 04:10:54 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 19, 2022, 03:37:07 PM
Ok, now that I've had time to process this a little more; I think this is simply their announcement that D&D is going to transition to a digital gaming environment in a much bigger way.  They don't see the future of printed hardcovers being as big of a money maker for them, as the online gaming environment.  They can also make rules changes that are implemented throughout the entire player base, much more easily and more universally; if they do so via the online gaming experience platform.

WOTC is going to control how people play D&D; by controlling what D&D is, in the online gaming environment.  If they make it look great; people will play it in mass, regardless.

Yup. And then roll the welcome mat for the subscription based model, where no one owns anything and they'll be happy.

Why induce extra production costs making printed materials their primary source of profit, when they can make you pay a subscription cost for the privilege of accessing material that you don't own from a cloud? FOREVER!!!

People have been doing this with stuff like Adobe and Microsoft products for years now. Streaming services arguably as well, since we don't own all those DVDs/Bluerays either (though, I see the value more in those, since there's hundreds of them and it's too inconvenient to purchase all those disks separately to never see more than a tiny fraction more than once). I've even heard talk of maybe even making cars a subscription model. Video games as well. Why sell PDFs when they can gate access behind a cloud?

That is very depressing. And probably quite accurate. The only mitigating factor I can think of is that maybe just maybe there are enough hobbyists who actually like having a real physical book collection.

And also considering the politics of WotC maybe it's not so bad its contained behind a cloud.

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 19, 2022, 03:37:07 PM...They don't see the future of printed hardcovers being as big of a money maker for them, as the online gaming environment.  They can also make rules changes that are implemented throughout the entire player base, much more easily and more universally; if they do so via the online gaming experience platform.

WOTC is going to control how people play D&D; by controlling what D&D is, in the online gaming environment.  If they make it look great; people will play it in mass, regardless.

This is A Terrible idea.
The charm and fun of D&D and other role playing games is that they ARE played around a table with books.

To Hell with 'smart'  phones, laptops, online gaming, and all of the 'streaming' BS.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 19, 2022, 03:37:07 PM
Ok, now that I've had time to process this a little more; I think this is simply their announcement that D&D is going to transition to a digital gaming environment in a much bigger way.

Again? Maybe they'll get it right this time, but WotC doesn't have a great track record with efforts in that direction.

Quote from: Koltar on August 19, 2022, 04:25:52 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 19, 2022, 03:37:07 PM...They don't see the future of printed hardcovers being as big of a money maker for them, as the online gaming environment.  They can also make rules changes that are implemented throughout the entire player base, much more easily and more universally; if they do so via the online gaming experience platform.

WOTC is going to control how people play D&D; by controlling what D&D is, in the online gaming environment.  If they make it look great; people will play it in mass, regardless.

This is A Terrible idea.
The charm and fun of D&D and other role playing games is that they ARE played around a table with books.

To Hell with 'smart'  phones, laptops, online gaming, and all of the 'streaming' BS.

- Ed C.

Agreed.

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 19, 2022, 04:51:28 PM

Quote from: Koltar on August 19, 2022, 04:25:52 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 19, 2022, 03:37:07 PM...They don't see the future of printed hardcovers being as big of a money maker for them, as the online gaming environment.  They can also make rules changes that are implemented throughout the entire player base, much more easily and more universally; if they do so via the online gaming experience platform.
WOTC is going to control how people play D&D; by controlling what D&D is, in the online gaming environment.  If they make it look great; people will play it in mass, regardless.

This is A Terrible idea.
The charm and fun of D&D and other role playing games is that they ARE played around a table with books.
To Hell with 'smart'  phones, laptops, online gaming, and all of the 'streaming' BS.
- Ed C.

Agreed.

Yeah, but this isn't being made for Boomers in their 60's, Gen-Xers in our 50's, or older Millennials in their 40's.  They'll be very happy to be rid of us, in fact.

This is like musicians changing their style dramatically to shake off their previous audience and win over a new one. 

Quote from: Koltar on August 19, 2022, 04:25:52 PM
This is A Terrible idea.
The charm and fun of D&D and other role playing games is that they ARE played around a table with books.

To Hell with 'smart'  phones, laptops, online gaming, and all of the 'streaming' BS.

- Ed C.

Hear, hear. No screens at the table should be the norm, screens the exception. Focus has been a major issue for myself and others every time we thought we could ignore this rule.

I honestly don't care about D&D anymore. I keep tabs on it for sake of keeping abreast of the industry, but I basically view it as an obsolete fossil of a game which is miles behind indie games, and the Woke is just the cherry on the top of the sewage sandwich. I'll play it if I know there's a good GM who positively insists on playing D&D, but I have no intention of buying any WotC books or having a D&D specific group.

As to screens at the game table; I don't always ban smartphones because I use them as a feedback mechanism. Checking your phone means the game isn't engrossing, so there's something to be learned on my end. But no screens is, in fact, the ideal.

Screens?

At the table?
If you mean normal GM Screens to 'hide' his or her outline notes and dice rolls - then hell Yes a GM Screen should be at the table.

If you mean 'screens' as in tech devices - then HELL No ! - ban them all to some other room, or even another village a state or province away from the table.

- Ed C.